Koreans about EGC: Hong Seulki

Bantari · **#21**

hyperpape wrote:

Bantari wrote:

I disagree. There should be a possibility to create a venue to have a closed tournament, and another to play strong outsiders. This is exactly how they handle it in Asia, and it works well it seems, so I absolutely cannot see any reason why Europeans should not be allowed to do the same. I don't understand why this should be taken as offensive by the Asians. I can however see why Asians trying to bully/blackmail the Europeans into not doing this can be seen offensive to the Europeans.

Well, any bullying or blackmailing doesn't appear to just be coming from Asians, unless I am wrong about where Mr. Fairbairn is born.

The point is that it should be an European internal issue rather than decided by pressure from outside.
Inside bullies are bad, but outside bullies are worse, imho.
Your mileage might vary.

hyperpape wrote:

Bantari wrote:

but if the relationship between these two cultures are ever going to be other than master/slave thing, Europeans need to learn to stand up for themselves even if that means getting shafted sometimes and incurring short-time losses

Ahhhh..the many centuries of European slavery to Asians, while they were too scared to assert themselves. Let us all tremble in fear of our Asian masters.

Yeah, pick on the poor choice of words by a non-native English speaker, very classy, really.

Still, if this is the strongest argument you can make against what I say - then I feel I have already convinced you.
And yes, a lot of the attitudes displayed verges on 'trembling in fear of Asian masters'. OH MY GOD, THEY WILL NOT COME... OH MY GOD, THEY WILL DISLIKE US... OH MY GOD, THEY WILL WITHDRAW THEIR SUPPORT... THEY WILL DECLINE TO SHOW US ALL THE BEAUTIFUL WAYS THEY CAN CLOBBER OUR PLAYERS... HOW CAN WE POSSIBLY AFFORD THAT... WE SIMPLY HAVE TO DO WHAT THEY WANT, NO MATTER WHAT!!! Its ok if you see it differently, though. I might too, its just something to think about.

hyperpape · **#22**

My point, to be perfectly clear was NOT that John Fairbairn is a European bully, but that many Europeans seem to want to welcome Korean players. You cannot sweep the matter under the rug as an issue of outsiders bullying you.

Bantari wrote:

Yeah, pick on the poor choice of words by a non-native English speaker, very classy, really.

It was more than that. In your mother tongue or otherwise, what you posted was alarmist, pure and simple. You could have left the words master and slave out of it, and your comments would reveal a bizarre sort of ressentiment.

Even if the separate championships are a good idea, it is not a matter of the Europeans asserting themselves and changing their unfair relationship with Europe. It is a matter of what is best for Go in Europe. No need to be dramatic.

Although my gut says they are not a good idea, I'm a bit torn--it's interesting to know who the strongest native European is, and imho it's fine that you can't represent the US internationally until you are a citizen.

Lastly, if you're going to make the dodge that you don't speak English well enough to choose words properly, you can always speak humbly and straightforwardly, without rhetorical flair. You seem to be trying to have it both ways.

Bantari wrote:

And yes, a lot of the attitudes displayed verges on 'trembling in fear of Asian masters'. OH MY GOD, THEY WILL NOT COME... OH MY GOD, THEY WILL DISLIKE US... OH MY GOD, THEY WILL WITHDRAW THEIR SUPPORT... THEY WILL DECLINE TO SHOW US ALL THE BEAUTIFUL WAYS THEY CAN CLOBBER OUR PLAYERS... HOW CAN WE POSSIBLY AFFORD THAT... WE SIMPLY HAVE TO DO WHAT THEY WANT, NO MATTER WHAT!!! Its ok if you see it differently, though. I might too, its just something to think about.

Or, alternatively, many Europeans may have a sense for how Koreans will understand their actions. They know that when they play the victim, it will make them feel unwelcome. Being kind hearted, they do not wish to do that. Being pragmatic, they consider the possible consequences.

Or maybe they are just pissing their pants in fear. Who knows?

Koreans about EGC: Hong Seulki

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