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 Post subject: Road To Dan
Post #1 Posted: Tue Nov 22, 2022 8:00 pm 
Beginner

Posts: 5
Liked others: 0
Was liked: 3
Rank: OGS 3 Kyu
Tygem: 1 Dan
OGS: 3 kyu
Online playing schedule: everyday between 1700-0000 Central Standard Time
If Sensei's Library is to be believed: I'm already a 2nd Dan in Japan and China by the 08 survey OGS conducted and the 2015 survey shows Japan and AGA would consider my strength level as Dan.

I tend to like to compare my strength to the Korean system since I lived their for a short time and I really like the style of play the Koreans exhibit.

Anyway: my reason for playing go is to increase my rank.

Regardless of all the reasons any of us play, that is my one reason for playing.

The rank is a positive consequence for all the study, practice and discipline to become stronger but it is my main intention.

This log is my thoughts on my play, musings on pro games/amateur games and a basic tracker for my time/effort/energies into my pursuit.

By all means: I do want honest feedback on my playing style, mistakes and advice on what and how to study to grow my understanding of these numerous abstract concepts we try so hard to memorize and commit to memory.

Please keep your comments on just the games and the advice towards building the skills to achieve my goal.

I would never critique someones personal desires that I don't believe in so I ask the same in return.

I have stated my goals in the past on other forums and been bombarded by others telling me that isn't the point of GO...for me: it is.

I am sensitive about it and that is why I ask for you to hold your judgements of me to yourself.

Please see my game below and leave your comments about it.

24Nov22 edit: I was white in this game.



Attachments:
48811851-319-I_V4-hang3.sgf [3.09 KiB]
Downloaded 108 times


Last edited by Slappy_McFisticuffs on Thu Nov 24, 2022 10:25 am, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Road To Dan
Post #2 Posted: Thu Nov 24, 2022 4:28 am 
Lives in gote

Posts: 389
Liked others: 527
Was liked: 22
Rank: Weak
OGS: Elom0
Online playing schedule: I'll mostly play against myself, will because I haven't started my Alpha-Zero style self-play yet.
Don't listen to silly people trying to.decide for you what your goals should be. Many of them are just projecting.

I mean by definition the reason why you want to improve your rank in go specifically, and not competitive tiddlywinks, is because it is go you want to have a derp understanding of. The only problem is when for people who's personality that would not be an appropriate goal. My personality type means I'm happy for people to make fun of and roast my terrible moves, and given that your serious about improving you probably also see strict criticism of your moves as something to be desired, but for a few other people, they are sensitive to that so that style of teaching wouldn't suit them, and that's not a character flaw either just a difference in instinctual philosophy towards what their personal relationship to the game is. In terms of ability Korea is the place worthy of most respect, so I hope you achieve your goals even quicker than you think. I'm sorry I'm not strong enough to give actual constructive criticism of your moves I'm just OGS 9ku, although I used to be 4kyu.

You're probably already doing this but Rui Naiwei snd Yoo Chanhyuk, are some of the most religous and deadly fighters in the gamr, so reviewing their game records along with Sakata 'Killer of Go' Eio is a great way to train on the path of the fighter, and for modern players Choi Jeong and Byung Sangil.

edit: sorry, I now realise that you also said not to make replies focusing on judgements about your baduk philosophy but I was kind of agreeing with that so I hope it wasn't too much of a transgression. Rank shouldn't be this taboo thing to want really , but it's the modern Gen Z age I guess . . .


Last edited by Elom0 on Fri Nov 25, 2022 3:42 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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 Post subject: Re: Road To Dan
Post #3 Posted: Thu Nov 24, 2022 6:34 am 
Oza
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Posts: 2161
Location: Ghent, Belgium
Liked others: 324
Was liked: 948
Rank: KGS 2d OGS 1d Fox 4d
KGS: Artevelde
OGS: Knotwilg
Online playing schedule: UTC 18:00 - 22:00
Can I ask which color you are? Sorry if I'm missing that from the description.

For me, rank has always been the most objective measure of total playing level, even if there's inflation and not all ranking systems are alike. Most people who want to improve actually go by rank, not all are as honest as you about it. Yes, there are different measures possible. For example, if you want to improve on "not blundering" you can measure the number of blunders, regardless of the final result. I've found that helps in terms of incremental improvement.

On the game, I found a few patterns in bad choices of moves in close encounters (fighting). But I'll go into detail once I know which color you were.

Last word - I've upset people in the past coming to this forum by making well intended comments. So if anything upsets you, it was not my intention, only a mismatch in communication.

Cheers


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 Post subject: Re: Road To Dan
Post #4 Posted: Thu Nov 24, 2022 10:46 am 
Beginner

Posts: 5
Liked others: 0
Was liked: 3
Rank: OGS 3 Kyu
Tygem: 1 Dan
OGS: 3 kyu
Online playing schedule: everyday between 1700-0000 Central Standard Time
Elom0 wrote:
Don't listen to silly people trying to.decide for you what your goals should be. Many of them are just projecting.

I mean by definition the reason why you want to improve your rank in go specifically, and not competitive tiddlywinks, is because it is go you want to have a derp understanding of. The only problem is when for people who's personality that would not be an appropriate goal. My personality type means I'm happy for people to make fun of and roast my terrible moves, and given that your serious about improving you probably also see strict criticism of your moves as something to be desired, but for a few other people, they are sensitive to that so that style of teaching wouldn't suit them, and that's not a character flaw either just a difference in instinctual philosophy towards what their personal relationship to the game is. In terms of ability Korea is the place worthy of most respect, so I hope you achieve your goals even quicker than you think. I'm sorry I'm not strong enough to give actual constructive criticism of your moves I'm just OGS 9ku, although I used to be 4kyu.

You're probably already doing this but Rui Naiwei snd Yoo Chanhyuk, are some of the most religous and deadly fighters in the gamr, so reviewing their game records along with Sakata 'Killer of Go' Eio is a great way to train on the path of the fighter, and for modern players Choi Jeonng and.Byung Sangil.



I don't take extreme criticism as anything other than a very honest observation of my tendencies and errors.

I enjoy getting that critical analysis over the softer styles of speaking around the issue to not hurt feelings.

I do understand that I need to speak to those that require a softer tone in a softer tone to help them, I'm not trying to be a brute and enforce what works for me on everyone.

You and I are in the same boat as I was once on my was to Dan sitting at 2k but I stopped playing 19x19 to play 9x9 games because they were faster and I did that for about 5 years of only 9x9. When I came back to 19x19 I had forgotten basic shapes, tesujis, josekis, sabakis and so much more and it was a grind to get back to 3kyu on OGS.

I will look up those players you mentioned as I've just been researching games played through the last 20 years to see where the game has evolved with the addition of AI analysis and just wanting to grow beyond my fighters mentality.

I want to be able to move like water when I meet another fighter that fights with the same fire I do.

Thank you for the encouragement.


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 Post subject: Re: Road To Dan
Post #5 Posted: Thu Nov 24, 2022 10:53 am 
Beginner

Posts: 5
Liked others: 0
Was liked: 3
Rank: OGS 3 Kyu
Tygem: 1 Dan
OGS: 3 kyu
Online playing schedule: everyday between 1700-0000 Central Standard Time
Knotwilg wrote:
Can I ask which color you are? Sorry if I'm missing that from the description.

For me, rank has always been the most objective measure of total playing level, even if there's inflation and not all ranking systems are alike. Most people who want to improve actually go by rank, not all are as honest as you about it. Yes, there are different measures possible. For example, if you want to improve on "not blundering" you can measure the number of blunders, regardless of the final result. I've found that helps in terms of incremental improvement.

On the game, I found a few patterns in bad choices of moves in close encounters (fighting). But I'll go into detail once I know which color you were.

Last word - I've upset people in the past coming to this forum by making well intended comments. So if anything upsets you, it was not my intention, only a mismatch in communication.

Cheers


For your clarity ad other s in the future I'll make sure I put down what color I was going forward. I was white in this game.

I do measure my ability in how I can see the mistakes my opponents make that I use to make very often and I know how to undue or even beat them to vital point before they know it is the vital point.

I don't like beating up on players that are weaker in skill so I usually rank restrict my games when I want to be challenged to grow and then I'll take off the restriction and make it clear to play opponents that want to see what it is like to play players at more advanced levels and offer constructive criticism on what they can do to improve and where I have found useful information to broaden my understanding, although I'm not even close to the strongest go player to live I know we sharpen each other through dialogue and review.

I look forward to your insight on the game.


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 Post subject: Re: Road To Dan
Post #6 Posted: Thu Nov 24, 2022 4:43 pm 
Oza
User avatar

Posts: 2161
Location: Ghent, Belgium
Liked others: 324
Was liked: 948
Rank: KGS 2d OGS 1d Fox 4d
KGS: Artevelde
OGS: Knotwilg
Online playing schedule: UTC 18:00 - 22:00
The story of this game is
1. In the early middle game you got ahead. At 15 Black draws out his stone from your Atari, while he should sacrifice and make territory. When you pressure his corner with 16, the game becomes better for you.
2. It becomes a running fight of several groups but you maintain the advantage, until 72 where you should push up once more but instead create another group on the side. This is too much to handle. You make small life but your opponent surrounds your group at 89.
3. Up until 125 the fight is very complex for our level but essentially Black wins by “eye against no eye” until you launch an attack on his eyespace in the corner and he makes a big mistake at 125. After 134 there’s not even a ko anymore and the whole board fight has turned into your favor.
4. There’s a hiccup when your central group is captured but when you take some compensation on the right side and seal it with 232 the game is really over. You do well to win the capturing race and not fall for shortage of liberties.

From this game I would say you are a strong figher but make unorthodox moves. To stick with the early middle game fight:
28 – I would simply make a one space jump to get out
30 – I would never bump into that connection and remove my own liberty

I would recommend keeping that reading ability and fighting spirit. Strengths should be strengthened so they become part of your style.

On the other hand you should know when it’s time to sacrifice and keep the advantage by throwing something away. 72 is a prime example.

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 Post subject: Re: Road To Dan
Post #7 Posted: Fri Nov 25, 2022 3:48 pm 
Lives in gote

Posts: 389
Liked others: 527
Was liked: 22
Rank: Weak
OGS: Elom0
Online playing schedule: I'll mostly play against myself, will because I haven't started my Alpha-Zero style self-play yet.
Slappy_McFisticuffs wrote:
I don't take extreme criticism as anything other than a very honest observation of my tendencies and errors.

I enjoy getting that critical analysis over the softer styles of speaking around the issue to not hurt feelings.

I do understand that I need to speak to those that require a softer tone in a softer tone to help them, I'm not trying to be a brute and enforce what works for me on everyone.

You and I are in the same boat as I was once on my was to Dan sitting at 2k but I stopped playing 19x19 to play 9x9 games because they were faster and I did that for about 5 years of only 9x9. When I came back to 19x19 I had forgotten basic shapes, tesujis, josekis, sabakis and so much more and it was a grind to get back to 3kyu on OGS.

I will look up those players you mentioned as I've just been researching games played through the last 20 years to see where the game has evolved with the addition of AI analysis and just wanting to grow beyond my fighters mentality.

I want to be able to move like water when I meet another fighter that fights with the same fire I do.

Thank you for the encouragement.


If your looking for games of a fighter who also knows how to play calmly, then Iyama Yuta is definitely who you should learn from. Unlike many other Japanese pros he's a fighter, however he doesn't rush in like Rui Naiwei sensei. He first patiently plays thickly preparing the groundwork strong position, then he lures the opponent in and then attacks. Perfect for a fighter who wants to broaden their horizons. Choi Jeong reached the finals of the Samsung Cup by adopting a more Iyama-Yuta-esq style than she usually does.

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 Post subject: 25NOV22 The Good, The Bad, And The Ugly
Post #8 Posted: Fri Nov 25, 2022 6:04 pm 
Beginner

Posts: 5
Liked others: 0
Was liked: 3
Rank: OGS 3 Kyu
Tygem: 1 Dan
OGS: 3 kyu
Online playing schedule: everyday between 1700-0000 Central Standard Time
The Good:

This is the first time I beat this player, Regginos, on OGS across 3 accounts I've used over the years. He has trashed me every beating me by no less than 50 points each time.

This time I managed to save all the thick groups and sacrifice as little as possible which caused him to resign in frustration as the computer still had him winning by 4.5 points, at most, and 0.5 points, at least.

Check it out and please give honest and critical feedback to improve my play. I was Black in this game.



The Bad:

I'm assuming this player is Korean as his name is written in Hangul, I'll take the flack in stride if I'm wrong for assuming.

I did good on securing the right side of the board but I messed up playing in the lower left hand corner and never recovered.

Again, critical analysis and critique of mistakes will be welcomed and taken for the advice that they are. I was black in this game.



The Ugly:

I will be honest... I jacked this all the way up.

I fought without a plan and it truly shows in this game.

I was black in this game. I am interested in how badly my play was and why from any and every ones perspective.



Attachments:
48878033-220-LuheQ-I_V4.sgf [2.14 KiB]
Downloaded 43 times
48885248-261-보통사람-I_V4.sgf [2.49 KiB]
Downloaded 42 times
48885687-209-regginos-I_V4.sgf [2.06 KiB]
Downloaded 42 times
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 Post subject: Re: Road To Dan
Post #9 Posted: Sun Nov 27, 2022 5:45 pm 
Oza
User avatar

Posts: 2161
Location: Ghent, Belgium
Liked others: 324
Was liked: 948
Rank: KGS 2d OGS 1d Fox 4d
KGS: Artevelde
OGS: Knotwilg
Online playing schedule: UTC 18:00 - 22:00
No time to do full reviews, just browsed through the last one.

It's interesting to see all the do-or-die moves. I see it as experience building. It's better I think to be overaggressive and learn what works and what not, so that you can decide to calm down but still have these killer moves up your sleeve, than being complacent from the start and not knowing how to turn on the heat.

The orthodoxy is to take care of your groups first, then attack (make a fist before striking).
Also, when you attack, you should do so in a way that makes profit on the other side of the attack (attack to make profit), because it's anyhow unlikely you can kill from the get go.

I'm not going to point out any moves. I'd say, work with these principles in your next games. You're a good fighter. If you made it this far (2-4k) with such unpolished style, I'm confident you can make it to high dan once you learn how to orient all that fighting power.

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