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 Post subject: Re: Path to 9Dan, step by step.
Post #481 Posted: Wed Jan 25, 2023 10:31 am 
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John Faibairn wrote:
We are really talking about four eastern languages here. Modern Chinese go borrowed heavily from Japanese, and in the process they have neglected much of the terminology used in classical Chinese go. The terms used in old Chinese go are nowhere defined, and some must have different nuances anyway because of group tax. When working on my Museum of Go Theory project, I therefore compiled a corpus (ongoing) of the vocabulary in commentaries. The purpose was not so much to see which terms were commonest, although that is illuminating, but to see what contexts (i.e. with which other words) each term was used, so that I could deduce the various nuances.

Before going on to talk about these nuances, I'll just throw in some raw meat into the cages of the numbers guys :)

By far the commonest technical word in old Chinese commentaries is 'jin' which I render as 'applying pressure'. This currently has 511 entries. The term 'bi' (gentle pressure) has 108 entries. Extreme pressure, as in forcing moves, shows up 255 times via either 'zhi' or 'luode'. Various moves come under a nexus of surrounding moves (as in Huang Longshi's Five Sieges), and as an example we may mention 'zhao' with 52 mentions. Other examples would include feng (sealing in) and capping.

Compared with all these diverse terms, attack ('gong') comes up with a measly 179 mentions.

We can see a similar pattern with what I called encroachment ('qin'). This has 178 mentions in that form, but various types of encroachment such as peeps and reductions and pitch-ins which have their own terms have to be added to that. Actual invasions? 91. Go figure
Word abundance are the kind of numbers you can deal with! This emperical evidence is rather convincing! The complete lack of the use of the term invasion is hilarious!

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 Post subject: Re: Path to 9Dan, step by step.
Post #482 Posted: Wed Jan 25, 2023 11:56 pm 
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Played 6 games after work today, and starting off 4-2 on Tygem 3D.
Of the 6 games, this was the most comedic by far lol. Have a good laugh everyone!

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 Post subject: Re: Path to 9Dan, step by step.
Post #483 Posted: Thu Jan 26, 2023 6:09 am 
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Yep, funny game indeed!
hl782 wrote:
hehe this was straight out of a tesuji problem sequence

At this point I'm really confused. Instead of your connection at D12, can't you just play the slap tesuji at E13 to capture the two black stones cleanly? The game sequence looks bad for you, right up to the point where black captures at J14 instead of playing G17 first to make another eye.

(Yes, it's much easier to see these things when the clock isn't ticking down!)

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 Post subject: Re: Path to 9Dan, step by step.
Post #484 Posted: Thu Jan 26, 2023 8:31 am 
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Oh shoot, good call - I completely missed that!!

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 Post subject: Re: Path to 9Dan, step by step.
Post #485 Posted: Sun Jan 29, 2023 10:59 pm 
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Hanging around on Tygem 3D for now with 9W, 8L. I had a really great start going 9-3, but then lost 5 in a row unfortunately.

I wish studying tsumego was as fun as playing games - but I have caught up all on LCH Tesuji and L&D vol. 1-4.

Volumes 5 for both next.

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 Post subject: Re: Path to 9Dan, step by step.
Post #486 Posted: Thu Feb 09, 2023 1:03 pm 
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Volumes 5 of the LCH series completed. Gotta say, the difficulty cranked up considerably on these. I’ll definitely redo these sometime later.

I also was promoted to Tygem 4D today. I am finally back to where I was pre-hiatus. Still at work but I’ll post a self-reviewed version of the promo game sometime later today.

5 more Dan levels to go.

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Last edited by hl782 on Fri Feb 10, 2023 2:18 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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 Post subject: Re: Path to 9Dan, step by step.
Post #487 Posted: Fri Feb 10, 2023 1:58 pm 
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Here are a couple games. First, the Promo game to 4D




Second, my first game back as a Tygem 4D.

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 Post subject: Re: Path to 9Dan, step by step.
Post #488 Posted: Fri Feb 10, 2023 9:51 pm 
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Congratulations on the promotion!

I wonder if you fell into a type of hallucination that's caught me out a few times?

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wc19
$$ +---------------------------------------+
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X . X . . . X . . . X O O . . . |
$$ | . . . O X . . . . . . . . X X . O . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O O O . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . X O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O X X O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | X X O O B . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X O O B . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | X . X O B . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X X O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | O . O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O X X O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X O X . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . X O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X O . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ +---------------------------------------+[/go]


With three captured stones around C12, the marked black stones are not cutting stones! No need to spend a move capturing them. If you play pretty much anywhere on the right side or bottom, the win is even simpler. (Not that you had trouble anyway. Just saying.)

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 Post subject: Re: Path to 9Dan, step by step.
Post #489 Posted: Sun Feb 12, 2023 1:27 am 
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My reasoning was as follows - if i capture those 3 stones, it’s an additional 6 points plus the thickness that would likely translate to 15+ points in the center while killing any aji black has in the center, and giving me complete freedom to attack the top. I can see the reasoning for why some might prefer the bottom right corner approach or the side. I just preferred the surefire thickness.

For what it’s worth, Tygem’s AI move evaluator says it’s a good move, on par with the 3-3 invasion in the bottom right corner!

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 Post subject: Re: Path to 9Dan, step by step.
Post #490 Posted: Tue Feb 14, 2023 11:16 am 
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I'm not a big advocate of books written by amateurs but I'd strongly recommend "Cross-cut Workshops" and "Counting Liberties and Winning Capturing Races" by Richard Hunter.

These books are really excellent in strengthening the fundamentals of one's middle game.

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 Post subject: Re: Path to 9Dan, step by step.
Post #491 Posted: Fri Feb 17, 2023 5:58 pm 
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I agree. Further comments at https://lifein19x19.com/viewtopic.php?f=17&t=19054 so as not to derail this thread too much.

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 Post subject: Re: Path to 9Dan, step by step.
Post #492 Posted: Sat Feb 18, 2023 11:32 pm 
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Some updates - I’ve wrapped up volume 6 of the LCH L&D and Tesuji series, meaning that I’ve completed the full series for the first time. I will go through volumes 5 & 6 again someday in the future, as those were a good challenge.

In the meantime, I am 2 wins away from a promotion to Tygem 5D. I don’t think there’s much of a difference between here and the 3Ds. My rust is probably peeling off, I’m reading a bit deeper, and some good luck has been on my side thus far.

Will post some games soon. Cheers.

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 Post subject: Re: Path to 9Dan, step by step.
Post #493 Posted: Mon Feb 20, 2023 11:10 pm 
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Here are some games as promised. No self-review since I didn't have too much time. Just an idea of how I am playing these days. Enjoy!

Game 1


Game 2


Game 3

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 Post subject: Re: Path to 9Dan, step by step.
Post #494 Posted: Fri Feb 24, 2023 7:11 am 
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Enjoying this thread, and it's encouraging me to take up a dedicated practice again.

Mybe one day I'll finish off the Lee Chang-ho tsumego and tesuji books, vols 5 and 6 are tough nuts to crack.

Liking the games you post, you've got a good eye for those sneaky tesujis :)


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 Post subject: Re: Path to 9Dan, step by step.
Post #495 Posted: Mon Feb 27, 2023 12:54 am 
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Promoted to Tygem 5D. Highest ever rank! 4 more dan levels to go!

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 Post subject: Re: Path to 9Dan, step by step.
Post #496 Posted: Mon Feb 27, 2023 12:40 pm 
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Attached are 2 games. My promo game to 4D, and my first game as a 5D.
I did a quick self review on the 5D game, as that was a loss. Enjoy.

Promo Game


5D Game, Loss

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 Post subject: Re: Path to 9Dan, step by step.
Post #497 Posted: Tue Feb 28, 2023 6:14 pm 
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I've finished the first read through (of many I would presume), of the 2nd volume of the Fujisawa Shuko tesuji dictionary.

I really can't emphasize enough -- every dan level player should read these books.

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 Post subject: Re: Path to 9Dan, step by step.
Post #498 Posted: Fri Mar 03, 2023 12:10 pm 
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I am currently 10-5 as a Tygem 5D. Here are 3Ws (with not much review) that you guys can observe for fun.

I'll attach a detailed review of a very close loss vs a 6D later today.

Game 1


Game 2


Game 3 - This is my favorite of the 3.

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 Post subject: Re: Path to 9Dan, step by step.
Post #499 Posted: Fri Mar 03, 2023 1:38 pm 
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Also, an interesting conversation I had with my friend Justin Teng... how does one measure talent in go?

Assuming one starts at a young age (below than 25), is there a ceiling in how high of a rank a player can achieve?

Justin thinks that anyone can get to 8-9D Tygem/Fox with effort. I think that's a huge overestimation on his part.

I think that anyone in go should be able to reach the 4-5Kyu mark by via self-study.
Without talent, I do believe that 4-5K will be a plateau for many.

I also think that if someone can get to past the 1-2D levels via self-study, then the person should be able to get to ~7D+ by themselves as well.

Would be interested in hearing what other's opinions on this are.

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 Post subject: Re: Path to 9Dan, step by step.
Post #500 Posted: Fri Mar 03, 2023 4:20 pm 
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hl782 wrote:
I think that anyone in go should be able to reach the 4-5Kyu mark by via self-study.
Without talent, I do believe that 4-5K will be a plateau for many.

I also think that if someone can get to past the 1-2D levels via self-study, then the person should be able to get to ~7D+ by themselves as well.

Would be interested in hearing what other's opinions on this are.

I suppose these are all Tygem ranks you are using here?

I don't know Tygem ranks very well, but I do know EGF ranks and I heard that Tygem ranks are about 4 ranks softer than EGF ranks (at least up to about Tygem 6-7d/EGF 3d).

So translating to EGF ranks: yes, 9k EGF can be reached by many people if they put in some amount of effort, talented or not. Via self study, 4-5k EGF seems reachable as well eventually.

But I have doubts about your final step: if someone can reach 4-5k EGF, you assume that they can reach 3d EGF as well. This seems like a stretch to me. Some 4-5k EGF will reach 3d EGF, but if they took many years to reach 4-5k EGF, IME it is quite unlikely they will reach 3d EGF in their lifetime. If they reached 4-5k EGF in a year or less (like you did in 2015), then yes, they may reach mid dan EGF eventually.


Last edited by gennan on Sat Mar 04, 2023 2:20 am, edited 1 time in total.
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