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 Post subject: Tami's Way Revisited
Post #1 Posted: Wed Mar 18, 2015 4:51 pm 
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In my latest attempt to break my several-year barrier, I decided to concentrate mainly on mentally solving simple tsumego, along with reading elementary textbooks with help of board and stones.

I wonder if the reason that we are frequently advised to solve easy tsumego is similar to the rationale behind the typical GM's advice to chess amateurs to study endgames. That is to say, I surmise that studying the fundamental patterns repeatedly may give one a better understanding of how go works.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$c Example Problem (Number 127 in Tasuki's collection)
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . O . X O . . . . . . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . X O . . . . . . . . . . . . . .
$$ | X X . X O . . . . . . . . . . . . . .
$$ | O X . X O . . . . , . . . . . , . . .
$$ | O O O O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .[/go]


I have considered various ways for Black to play, and for a while this was the best that I could find:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$c Example Problem (Number 127 in Tasuki's collection)
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | a O 4 X O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | b 3 2 X O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | X X . X O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | O X 1 X O . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | O O O O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |[/go]


This seems to be a situation in which the best either side can do is a disadvantageous ko (a for Black, b for White).

However, what if Black tries to live outright?
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$c Example Problem (Number 127 in Tasuki's collection)
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . O . X O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . 1 . X O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | X X . X O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | O X . X O . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | O O O O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |[/go]


White can refute this try and both of Black's plausible defences.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$c Example Problem (Number 127 in Tasuki's collection)
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | 5 O 3 X O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . 1 6 X O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | X X 4 X O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | O X 2 X O . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | O O O O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |[/go]


Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$c Example Problem (Number 127 in Tasuki's collection)
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . O . X O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . 1 . X O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | X X 3 X O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | O X 2 X O . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | O O O O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |[/go]

At first glance, the second one looks like seki, but it is not.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$c Example Problem (Number 127 in Tasuki's collection)
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | 4 O 2 X O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | 6 X . X O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | X X . X O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | O X X X O . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | O O O O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |[/go]


Unless Black wants to start a dangerous ko at 4 all he can do is pass until White makes a bent four in the corner.

However, going back to the first try, I noticed another resource for Black:
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$c Example Problem (Number 127 in Tasuki's collection)
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . O 3 X O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | 5 4 2 X O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | X X . X O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | O X 1 X O . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | O O O O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |[/go]

Producing a seki.

However, I took another look:
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$c Example Problem (Number 127 in Tasuki's collection)
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . O 3 X O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | 4 b 2 X O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | X X . X O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | O X 1 X O . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | O O O O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |[/go]


And Black is defeated because of he cannot play at b, while White can do, making a farmer's hat.


I am not convinced that the answer is a thousand-year ko, and I will doubtless come back to this problem, but I feel I have learned quite a lot about the potential shapes that lurk beneath even a fairly simple-looking situation, and that is surely the real benefit. It is not so much about visualisation (and I have a near-photographic memory, such that I can easily see a position in my head after a glance), but about grasping and working with relationships.

Anyway, I thought I would share this. My dream one day is to be able to say "Yes, I am several stones stronger" and then "this is how I did it", so that you can do the same; but in the meantime, you'll have to be content with speculation and entertainment.

Addendum

While I think of it, I notice that I use very simple exercises both in my own practice and when I am teaching singing. I find it invaluable for building up the technique that enables one to tackle difficult music. Make of that what you will.

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Last edited by Tami on Wed Mar 18, 2015 5:06 pm, edited 4 times in total.
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 Post subject: Re: Tami's Way Revisited
Post #2 Posted: Wed Mar 18, 2015 4:53 pm 
Oza

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You need to proof read. You missed all the [/go] tags.

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 Post subject: Re: Tami's Way Revisited
Post #3 Posted: Wed Mar 18, 2015 4:58 pm 
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DrStraw wrote:
You need to proof read. You missed all the [/go] tags.


Sorry about that. I've not done this very much recently. I've fixed it now.

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 Post subject: Re: Tami's Way Revisited
Post #4 Posted: Thu Mar 19, 2015 1:54 am 
Dies with sente

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Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$B
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . O . X O . . . . . . . . . . . . . .
$$ | 3 . 2 X O . . . . . . . . . . . . . .
$$ | X X . X O . . . . . . . . . . . . . .
$$ | O X 1 X O . . . . , . . . . . , . . .
$$ | O O O O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .[/go]

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 Post subject: Re: Tami's Way Revisited
Post #5 Posted: Thu Mar 19, 2015 3:13 am 
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Sennahoj wrote:
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$B
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . O . X O . . . . . . . . . . . . . .
$$ | 3 . 2 X O . . . . . . . . . . . . . .
$$ | X X . X O . . . . . . . . . . . . . .
$$ | O X 1 X O . . . . , . . . . . , . . .
$$ | O O O O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .[/go]


Yes, you're quite right. In fact I did see this variation in my attempts, but misjudged the status at first. ---- And that only goes to show the great value in doing these things!

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 Post subject: Re: Tami's Way Revisited
Post #6 Posted: Thu Mar 19, 2015 7:26 am 
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Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$c Example Problem (Number 127 in Tasuki's collection)
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | 4 O 2 X O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | 6 X . X O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | X X . X O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | O X X X O . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | O O O O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |[/go]


This diagram looks like it has a mistake at some point, as black could just play at the 3-2 point to make an eye before he's short of liberties.

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 Post subject: Re: Tami's Way Revisited
Post #7 Posted: Thu Mar 19, 2015 3:24 pm 
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skydyr wrote:
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$c Example Problem (Number 127 in Tasuki's collection)
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | 4 O 2 X O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | 6 X . X O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | X X . X O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | O X X X O . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | O O O O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |[/go]


This diagram looks like it has a mistake at some point, as black could just play at the 3-2 point to make an eye before he's short of liberties.


No mistake in the diagram, only in my assessment of it. Again, it shows that I really do need to work hard on these exercises!

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 Post subject: Re: Tami's Way Revisited
Post #8 Posted: Thu Mar 19, 2015 3:56 pm 
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If I'm unsure about my reading, what I do is follow these steps:

1.Assess the area of relevance to the tsumego in question. Always cast this net slightly too wide!
2.Build a tree of every move possible within the area of relevance. (use something like cgoban if your memory isn't good enough to hold the entire tree)
3.Assess every single node of that tree.
4.???
5.Profit!

It's a bit dull, but I've been able to solve and understand problems which make no sense at all otherwise.

You'll come across lots of stuff which otherwise makes no sense at all to you this way. It's not the gentle, easy road though. It might just bore you to tears.

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 Post subject: Re: Tami's Way Revisited
Post #9 Posted: Thu Mar 19, 2015 7:26 pm 
Honinbo

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Let me hail your project and your thoroughness. :clap:

Tami wrote:
skydyr wrote:
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$c Example Problem (Number 127 in Tasuki's collection)
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | 4 O 2 X O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | 6 X . X O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | X X . X O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | O X X X O . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | O O O O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |[/go]


This diagram looks like it has a mistake at some point, as black could just play at the 3-2 point to make an eye before he's short of liberties.


No mistake in the diagram, only in my assessment of it. Again, it shows that I really do need to work hard on these exercises!


White has let Black make two moves in a row before replying. :shock:

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 Post subject: Re: Tami's Way Revisited
Post #10 Posted: Thu Mar 19, 2015 8:32 pm 
Honinbo

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There is a technique called "1-2-3 reading" in the AYD.

Instead of randomly trying variations, the idea is:
1. Try the simplest way first (eg. from the outside).
2. If it works, great. If not, what was the opponent's refutation?
3. Try playing the place your opponent refuted first!

It doesn't work all the time, but it's a little more directed than random attempts.

So after your thorough analysis, the last diagram you posted was:
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$c Example Problem (Number 127 in Tasuki's collection)
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . O 3 X O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | 4 b 2 X O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | X X . X O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | O X 1 X O . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | O O O O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |[/go]


From this, you can think:
Hmm, playing :b3: almost works, but when white plays :w4:, it messes everything up. 1-2-3 reading! Try playing :w4: first!

Then you get the answer that Sennahoj gave.

It doesn't always work, but a lot of the time it does. At the very least, it's an organized way of reading out variations.

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 Post subject: Re: Tami's Way Revisited
Post #11 Posted: Thu Mar 19, 2015 8:46 pm 
Honinbo

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There is tsumego and there are real games. Correct play may differ.

Tsumego:

Living > ko > dying. So this is the answer.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$B Seki
$$ ---------------
$$ | . O . X O . .
$$ | 3 . 2 X O . .
$$ | X X . X O . .
$$ | O X 1 X O . .
$$ | O O O O O . .
$$ | . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . .[/go]


As Sennahoj pointed out. :)


Real game:

Tenuki is an option. The local temperature often drops before the end of tsumego play.

Sente and gote matter.

Kos may be better than seki or not. Ko threats matter.


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— Winona Adkins

Visualize whirled peas.

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 Post subject: Re: Tami's Way Revisited
Post #12 Posted: Fri Mar 20, 2015 3:17 am 
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Bill Spight wrote:
There is tsumego and there are real games. Correct play may differ.

Tsumego:

Living > ko > dying. So this is the answer.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$B Seki
$$ ---------------
$$ | . O . X O . .
$$ | 3 . 2 X O . .
$$ | X X . X O . .
$$ | O X 1 X O . .
$$ | O O O O O . .
$$ | . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . .[/go]


As Sennahoj pointed out. :)


Real game:

Tenuki is an option. The local temperature often drops before the end of tsumego play.

Sente and gote matter.

Kos may be better than seki or not. Ko threats matter.



That was brilliant, Bill. Many thanks.

It has been very interesting to see both the mistakes that I made (thank you to all who pointed out things I got wrong) and the many possibilities that exist in this elementary exercise, and to see how they may be treated in the context of a real game. There is so much about go to be learned from such tsumego, in just the same way that chess endgame studies teach players the essence of handling pieces correctly.

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 Post subject: Re: Tami's Way Revisited
Post #13 Posted: Fri Mar 20, 2015 9:40 am 
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Thanks for the compliment, Tami. :)

What it was was playing around with the position and trying to understand it. :)

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The Adkins Principle:
At some point, doesn't thinking have to go on?
— Winona Adkins

Visualize whirled peas.

Everything with love. Stay safe.

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