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Post #61 Posted: Wed May 13, 2015 12:11 pm 
Honinbo
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Bki wrote:
Playing E16 after :w9: seems really strange to me...
Which must means that :w9: was a mistake...
Not necessarily.
Things are not always binary, black-or-white, good-or-bad.
Things can be in a continuum.

For :w9: and :w11: :
:w9: lies somewhere on the continuum of { terrible...brilliant }.
:w11: lies somewhere on the continuum of { terrible...brilliant }.

I'm not saying where either of them lies.
Yes, there's a possibility both of them are terrible.
(There's also a possibility both of them are brilliant. I'm not sure.)
But, an important realization is there's a possibility that :w11: is bad,
regardless of :w9: .

This shows an understanding of shapes. As shown again in :b18: .
Bki wrote:
:b18:
I already know about this, but I didn't associate it with my moves...
Again, an issue of binary vs. continuum.
Understanding is not binary (to know zero or 100%); rather, it's a continuum.
Overheard at a coffee shop:
Patron, "I know about quantum mechanics."
Physicist, "Oh. How much do you know about it ?"
Patron, "I saw an episode of Cosmos once."
Physicist, "I see."

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Post #62 Posted: Wed May 13, 2015 12:36 pm 
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EdLee wrote:
Bki wrote:
Playing E16 after :w9: seems really strange to me...
Which must means that :w9: was a mistake...
Not necessarily.
Things are not always binary, black-or-white, good-or-bad.
Things can be in a continuum.

For :w9: and :w11: :
:w9: lies somewhere on the continuum of { terrible...brilliant }.
:w11: lies somewhere on the continuum of { terrible...brilliant }.

I'm not saying where either of them lies.
Yes, there's a possibility both of them are terrible.
(There's also a possibility both of them are brilliant. I'm not sure.)
But, an important realization is there's a possibility that :w11: is bad,
regardless of :w9: .

This shows an understanding of shapes. As shown again in :b18: .
Bki wrote:
:b18:
I already know about this, but I didn't associate it with my moves...
Again, an issue of binary vs. continuum.
Understanding is not binary (to know zero or 100%); rather, it's a continuum.
Overheard at a coffee shop some weeks ago:
Patron, "I know about quantum mechanics."
Physicist, "Oh. How much do you know about it ?"
Patron, "I saw an episode of Cosmos once."
Physicist, "I see."


What I meant was more, that since :w11: at E16 felt inconsistent with the purpose of :w9: (well, you could argue that :w9: leave aji, but you would get an inferior result compared to :w9: at :b10: anyway, so), yet E16 was also the only local move, then it must mean that :w9: was a mistake since it left White with no good options.

Obviously, it's come from my limited skills, so I might have missed some variation that make :w9: followed by :w11: at E16 an equally as good sequence compared to :w9: at D16.

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Post #63 Posted: Thu May 14, 2015 2:33 am 
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A short game today. I got a comfortable position during the opening (apart from the bottom right corner, which was not that good, but not a disaster either), invaded, invaded some more, and killed when my opponent tried to invade.



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Post #64 Posted: Thu May 14, 2015 5:36 am 
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Let's continue on the 3-4 variations...

Let's see the knight move, first. The aim of such a move seems clear : lean on the corner, then counter-attack the pincer stone. Possible variations could be

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$c One space low pincer.
$$-----------
$$|..........
$$|..9.......
$$|.0815.7...
$$|...,46....
$$|..2.......
$$|..........
$$|..3.......
$$|..........
$$|..........
$$|..........[/go]


Secure a base in the corner.


Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$c One space low pincer.
$$-----------
$$|..........
$$|..........
$$|...157.9..
$$|...,468...
$$|..2.......
$$|..........
$$|..3.......
$$|..........
$$|..0.......
$$|..........[/go]


Counter-pincer.

Obviously, black might not answer this way. What happens if he push and cut?


Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$c Cut first, think later.
$$-----------
$$|..........
$$|..........
$$|..018.....
$$|...54.....
$$|..267.....
$$|....9.....
$$|..3.......
$$|..........
$$|..........
$$|..........[/go]


The corner die. 9 is unreasonable.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$c Cut first, think later.
$$-----------
$$|..........
$$|..........
$$|.9.18.....
$$|...54.....
$$|..267a....
$$|..........
$$|..30......
$$|..b.......
$$|..........
$$|..........[/go]


I think the corner may still be killed, but white must first make sure that both of his group do live.

Black a threaten both the cut and capturing two white stone, but it's an acceptable exchange and white hane at b.

What about helping the other side?


Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$c Cut first, think later.
$$-----------
$$|..........
$$|..........
$$|.9.18.....
$$|...54.0...
$$|..267.....
$$|..........
$$|..3.......
$$|..........
$$|..........
$$|..........[/go]



Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$c If :b3: one intersection below, black lose the capturing race.
$$-----------
$$|..........
$$|..980.....
$$|.X3XO.....
$$|.2.XO.O...
$$|..OOX....
$$|.6..1.....
$$|.4X.......
$$|.57.......
$$|..........
$$|..........[/go]


I'm pretty sure that white win this.

The hane at D14 instead of :b1: seems to lead to a similar outcome. So black can't capture either group. Black must come back to his corner or see it die. So, cutting here doesn't seems like a reasonable choice.

Edit : Well, apparently josekipedia consider :w8: to be a trick play and the hane is the refutation. I guess not thinking about such moves is why I'm bad at this game :).

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Post #65 Posted: Thu May 14, 2015 8:04 am 
Oza

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Bki wrote:
A short game today. I got a comfortable position during the opening (apart from the bottom right corner, which was not that good, but not a disaster either), invaded, invaded some more, and killed when my opponent tried to invade.




For the first consideration, at :b27:, I think black needs to pressure the white right side group. I am considering Q10 or R10, but maybe this is a bit too close to white and should be a bit farther away. Either way, I think white will need to respond locally, and then your corner enclosure will already have an extension in place.

At :b31:, the game move feels heavy. P8 might be a bit lighter, or you can just take a big point like C6. I think it would be slow for white to try too hard to capture the black stones at this point. :b33:, while it looks pretty, is also slow and heavy. Black is making a target of his group, while white's strong groups are making easy points.

At :b39: you may want to take K16 yourself instead. White can play where black did to reduce, but it's not reducing much since white is already strong there.

Following that, I thought the ko was fine, and you clearly had the pulse of the game afterwards where your opponent did not.

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Post #66 Posted: Thu May 14, 2015 9:54 am 
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skydyr wrote:
For the first consideration, at :b27:, I think black needs to pressure the white right side group. I am considering Q10 or R10, but maybe this is a bit too close to white and should be a bit farther away. Either way, I think white will need to respond locally, and then your corner enclosure will already have an extension in place.


I think I considered something like that when reviewing the game afterwards, but dismissed the pincer because my cutting stones were still fairly weak. I didn't think of it as ensuring an extension for my future shimari.

Quote:
At :b31:, the game move feels heavy. P8 might be a bit lighter, or you can just take a big point like C6. I think it would be slow for white to try too hard to capture the black stones at this point. :b33:, while it looks pretty, is also slow and heavy. Black is making a target of his group, while white's strong groups are making easy points.


Good point. I felt I shouldn't abandon those stones so easily given they were cutting stones, but as I ended up doing just that later in the game anyway...

Quote:
At :b39: you may want to take K16 yourself instead. White can play where black did to reduce, but it's not reducing much since white is already strong there.

Following that, I thought the ko was fine, and you clearly had the pulse of the game afterwards where your opponent did not.


The problem with the ko is that, had he decided to play the ko, he had threats against my shimari, and against my lower right corner. I have a threat against his top group, and that's all (well, I guess O11 count as a local ko threat, but it make me take a massive loss if I lose that ko)...

Still, it's true that even if he decide to play the ko, I can give atari at P13 and get a slightly lesser result than in the game, but still capture R14.

...

I just finished another game. Two stone as white. I must applaud my opponent for his fighting spirit, even if choosing one of the most complicated joseki that exist may not be the best choice against a stronger opponent (see :b4:). Well, to be fair, I did screw up at :w15:, but he didn't manage to exploit this fully and I did manage to get an okay result. He could at least have chanced the ko :)



Also, I made a mini-chinese+kobayashi formation, but as I don't know how to play either (and then overplayed)...


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Post #67 Posted: Thu May 14, 2015 12:39 pm 
Oza

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Your taisha result seems fine, but it's not what I'd call one-sided. I don't like :w43: because white doesn't have the option of invading the corner if black invades.

At :w59: or even in place of E6, I think white should have made the corner enclosure. Once black has enough territory, he just needs to live in there order to win.

At :w69: I think the extension just helps black, and white should hane immediately. Extending for :w73: seems fine also, as black needs to fix shape after. At that point, prior to black's debacle on the right, I don't think white had gained on black at all.

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Post #68 Posted: Thu May 14, 2015 1:50 pm 
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skydyr wrote:
Your taisha result seems fine, but it's not what I'd call one-sided. I don't like :w43: because white doesn't have the option of invading the corner if black invades.


Well, I really should not have got as good a result as I got. Failing to reinforce the R4 group meant it was only alive by ko, and this is the first corner of the game so there's no ko threats, so I must chose a ko for which I either have the first capture or more local threat that my opponent (the double hane allowed for this). But even if I win the ko (I should) he can live on both side. And even after he avoided it, he could have gotten another during the capturing race.

Basically, the result in the game was fine. What could have happened had my opponent played better was not

For :w43:, good point. I will try to keep it in mind.

Quote:
At :w59: or even in place of E6, I think white should have made the corner enclosure. Once black has enough territory, he just needs to live in there order to win.


Hum... Now that I think about it, a high enclosure here does look nice... Though I would be worried about the cut at K15.

Quote:
At :w69: I think the extension just helps black, and white should hane immediately. Extending for :w73: seems fine also, as black needs to fix shape after. At that point, prior to black's debacle on the right, I don't think white had gained on black at all.


The hane felt too thin at the time... But it does work fine... I think it would be more my style to hane at D12 if it worked but... No, it doesn't. I have a nice tesuji but the stone at D12 would end up captured.

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Post #69 Posted: Fri May 15, 2015 2:37 am 
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Posting this game without much comments. I just finished it and won't have the time to review it myself immediately (though I will definitely do so this afternoon).

I was very worried when my opponent managed to live in the corner (certainly, I made a blunder at one point and let him live). Thankfully I had a comfortable margin and ended up wining by half a point.



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Post #70 Posted: Fri May 15, 2015 3:36 am 
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Some ideas : )

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Post #71 Posted: Fri May 15, 2015 4:19 am 
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First, my own comments :

Black 109 : peep at F10 may have been better? Let a little more weakness for black, maybe.

Black 135 : Bad. After White 136, white can cut at P11 and get two stones. so connecting at P11 directly with 135 would be better. It would also not allow white to reduce B centre territory as much as in the game.

Black 187 : At M7 would be better, as it leave less weakness

Black 223 : The height of silliness. There's no way I can fail to kill if I play D18.

Black 227 : hane instead would kill (though maybe with some fright).

White 230 : Oh my god did he really play that? B17 was instant life.

Black 243 : Why, why, why? Just connect, then his descent isn't sente!

SoDesuNe wrote:


Some ideas : )


About B3 : I agree, it was big and I failed to play there. Not sure if it was necessary as early as :b19: (my group is not so weak), but later on it would have been bigger than capturing/saving one stone.

On :b21: : I think because of D13, this was not terrible shape. (If D13 hadn't been on the board, there's no way I would have bumped. At least I hope so).

:w42: and :b43: I agree that A was the point for white to play. I just found a play by B there (or at R18 alternatively) to not be so appealing, at least compared to the hane I played.

On White 102 : because of Black B8, I would not be so worried about A

On black 249 : I missed that simply capturing worked. I saw that the capture of the two stones didn't make a true eye, but I had considered C19 as the play to kill earlier and it didn't work anymore (as there's miai between capturing A18 and making an eye with the two captured stones), so I didn't search any further.

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Post #72 Posted: Fri May 15, 2015 1:06 pm 
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General comment: Black's style in this game was to play rather thinly, and then try to be very careful later.

I can't really recommend this as an approach in an even game (with White against a handicap one understands why). White had good chances.

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Post #73 Posted: Sat May 16, 2015 5:05 am 
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Charles Matthews wrote:
General comment: Black's style in this game was to play rather thinly, and then try to be very careful later.

I can't really recommend this as an approach in an even game (with White against a handicap one understands why). White had good chances.


Thanks for the comment. I didn't realize my game was that thin, so it's very much appreciated.


As for today's game... I made some good gains in the opening, but also some questionable plays that led to a fight between three weak groups, two of which were mine. Thankfully they both lived, and my lead was solid enough to ensure my win.



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Post #74 Posted: Sun May 17, 2015 2:15 am 
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Well, this game is quite short, and maybe not particularly interesting (apart from the taisha), except for it being my first game as a 4 kyu on KGS.



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Post #75 Posted: Sun May 17, 2015 9:58 am 
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Two other games today.

The first was not very well played :



The second was a fun, messy game, but I could have had an easy win had I played either :w58: or :white: 160 better.



So this make 2 win for 1 loss as a 4k so far. Let's hope this ratio will not deteriorate with more games.


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Post #76 Posted: Mon May 18, 2015 3:57 am 
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Another win.

The result to :w52: was, I think, about equal : I had more profit, but white had a little more potential on the top and bottom sides, and all groups were fairly safe.

Then I screwed up in the bottom right corner, but managed to get a ladder breaker through and salvage the situation by making a nice moyo on the right side. He invaded only after playing forcing move that made me strengthen it, so he died, and I won.



By the way, it's relaxing to play with the confidence coming from having read a sequence to the end (and seen it couldn't end badly for you).


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Post #77 Posted: Mon May 18, 2015 5:10 am 
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One question, did you think about hane for 21?

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Post #78 Posted: Mon May 18, 2015 5:26 am 
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Uberdude wrote:
One question, did you think about hane for 21?


No... But now I wish I did, because it's a beautiful move.

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Post #79 Posted: Tue May 19, 2015 2:53 am 
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Okay... That's the most embarrassing game I played in a while. I totally screwed up the top left corner, but managed to come back somewhat into the game, though not quite enough (:white: 207 might have been the losing move).

When I counted and found myself somewhat behind, and with few opportunity to came back. Then he started an extremely big ko, and I failed to get appropriate compensation ( :white: 247 should have been at :black: 250).

Then :white: 273 was just silly, but I didn't care anymore at that point.



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Post #80 Posted: Tue May 19, 2015 4:43 am 
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Well, that was a little better. This one I won because my opponent didn't carefully re-read the ladder after a sequence I had played to break it. I'm not sure about the result in the lower right. The top left was fine, though it may have been better to take sente with :w32:. The top right was maybe not optimally handled, but I got a very good result nevertheless. The bottom left ended the game.



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