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 Post subject: Re: Path to 9Dan, step by step.
Post #381 Posted: Mon Aug 26, 2019 9:54 am 
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A couple of comments on your latest game. :)

:w6: is fine. maybe best. :)

:w8: Given the fact that you do not want Black to develop on the top side, which would work with the Q-16 stone, just butt with D-16.

:w16: Cutting the elephant jump is tempting, but usually there is a better play. (Not that I know what it is. ;)) After Black R-06, White P-06, what has White gained?

:b17: Overplay.

:w18: Yeah, the empty triangle is horrid here, as usual. But your idea behind it is good. Cut Black to pieces. :) N-05 is the best play for that, and maybe the best play overall.

The problem with N-05 is that the ladder works for Black. However, this kind of ladder is seldom a problem. After Black O-05, White P-04, which connects the White stones and threatens the corner, the ladder is bad. White can simply atari at N-03 and then extend to M-03. This is good for White. Black has taken 5 stones to win 1. no ponnuki. And White has a solid group while Black has a weakened corner. :)

So instead of playing the ladder let Black descend to N-03. Now the ladder is good, so White extends to M-05. This position can certainly lead to complications, but it is good for White because of the weakness of Q-04. White should welcome this fight. :)

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 Post subject: Re: Path to 9Dan, step by step.
Post #382 Posted: Tue Aug 27, 2019 7:16 pm 
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Pretty big decision on my part - after deep thought I decided to get formal lessons from Mark Lee (Formerly known as Kingmaker on KGS). Here's to a brighter future!

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 Post subject: Re: Path to 9Dan, step by step.
Post #383 Posted: Wed Aug 28, 2019 3:46 pm 
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Still playing against 2-1kyus and just hanging in there.

Some tsumego progress - I've finished Volume 1 of Maeda Tsumego, and I scored 106 out of 225 - for a hot grade of 47%. Oof. This was probably the hardest problem set I've finished by far.

Almost all of my incorrect solutions were Ko problems, and I scored around 79% excluding the Kos. Fortunately, I've gotten better at realizing Ko a bit through the set, so on my rerun hopefully I score better.

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 Post subject: Re: Path to 9Dan, step by step.
Post #384 Posted: Wed Aug 28, 2019 5:37 pm 
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hl782 wrote:
Still playing against 2-1kyus and just hanging in there.

Some tsumego progress - I've finished Volume 1 of Maeda Tsumego, and I scored 106 out of 225 - for a hot grade of 47%. Oof. This was probably the hardest problem set I've finished by far.

Almost all of my incorrect solutions were Ko problems, and I scored around 79% excluding the Kos. Fortunately, I've gotten better at realizing Ko a bit through the set, so on my rerun hopefully I score better.


Hmm, I wanna buy the Maeda Tsumego books now...

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 Post subject: Re: Path to 9Dan, step by step.
Post #385 Posted: Wed Aug 28, 2019 6:47 pm 
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Victory vs 1Dan



Loss vs 1 Kyu



Kirby wrote:
Hmm, I wanna buy the Maeda Tsumego books now...


I highly recommend them if you can get them through Amazon JP somehow. The problems are good!


Attachments:
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 Post subject: Re: Path to 9Dan, step by step.
Post #386 Posted: Wed Aug 28, 2019 10:46 pm 
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In the 1st game above you note that the response to the Kobayashi opening has changed: nowadays white just aproaches high and then black doesn't attack with a 2-space high pincer.

This is due to AI. I made a video about AI evaluation of the kobayashi opening a while ago. This section is about the high approach.


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 Post subject: Re: Path to 9Dan, step by step.
Post #387 Posted: Fri Aug 30, 2019 3:20 pm 
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Thanks for that post. I'll be honest though, I still like the Kobayashi, Chinese and Minichinese because it still gives me a simpler layout for the game by allowing me to build up large frameworks that let me bait and attack opponents. I've won 2-3 games in the past few days just because of the Kobayashi. Perhaps in the high dan levels it will become useless but for now - I'll stick to it :)

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 Post subject: Re: Path to 9Dan, step by step.
Post #388 Posted: Fri Aug 30, 2019 5:51 pm 
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hl782, are you able to use a bot to review your games? The fight in the center is complicated, a bot is an easy way to check after what other possibilities there were. Two big chances for white was 116 at P3, which answers your N7 in sente. Second big chance was white 118 at O10, looks like black dies inside in that case.

Also for the joseki in the upper left, Black c13 is a mistake, and White D18 should be B13 -- even without a ladder.

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 Post subject: Re: Path to 9Dan, step by step.
Post #389 Posted: Fri Aug 30, 2019 6:13 pm 
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hl782 wrote:
Thanks for that post. I'll be honest though, I still like the Kobayashi, Chinese and Minichinese because it still gives me a simpler layout for the game by allowing me to build up large frameworks that let me bait and attack opponents. I've won 2-3 games in the past few days just because of the Kobayashi. Perhaps in the high dan levels it will become useless but for now - I'll stick to it :)


Make the plays you want to make. :)

But truth to say, the bots don't like plays on the side too early in the opening. Even before the AI era, humans were starting to doubt the sanrensei, and Kobayashi II had evolved. IIRC, AlphaGo sometimes played the micro-Chinese, with a closer extension from the 3-4. It is worth trying out plays like shoulder hits and attachments against the opponent's corner instead of extending or wedging on a side.

Obviously, none of these openings is fatal at the amateur level. But having made one play on a side, don't be too quick to play another. ;)

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 Post subject: Re: Path to 9Dan, step by step.
Post #390 Posted: Sun Sep 01, 2019 10:19 pm 
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I've blown quite a few of games recently where I was winning by misreading simple life and death scenarios. I'm annoyed that my reading, not deep strategic reading, but basic L&D reading is holding me back. So, I decided to go through the remainder of 1001 L&D problems and the earlier volumes of Lee Chang Ho Tesuji/L&D series that I've finished before.

I don't want to keep on blowing games that I've won through silly mistakes anymore.

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 Post subject: Re: Path to 9Dan, step by step.
Post #391 Posted: Mon Sep 02, 2019 4:24 pm 
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3 games - 1 Win, 2 Losses, one loss that especially made me cringe in terms of basic L&D failures.

Finished Going through LCH L&D Volume 1, and LCH Tesuji Volume 4 and 1.


the win. The guy missed a snapback twice. I originally intended to play out the ladder, and capture the black stones on the right for more territory. I figured the black double ataris wouldn't get much since I was so strong around the area already. Moreover, black has to capture the m16 stone even if the ladder does play out, otherwise his entire group on the upper left is dead - so i figured i'd still retain the initiative.


the 1st loss - infuriating idiocy in the top right.


the 2nd loss - should have squeezed in making life in the bottom left and then reinforced my groups in sente. Was just thin everywhere though. Maybe I could have lived with my final group by making use of the cut in the bottom.


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 Post subject: Re: Path to 9Dan, step by step.
Post #392 Posted: Tue Sep 03, 2019 10:31 am 
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The difference between Tygem 1D and KGS 1Kyu are night and day.

I'm currently on a 7 game win streak on Tygem. There is no such thing as an opening in Tygem. It's funny cuz I'm the one usually picking a fight on KGS but on Tygem it's a bit of the opposite.


Attached is my most difficult game from Tygem. Constant swing of back and forth. I did outplay him mostly, but he definitely had a few chances to kill me.



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 Post subject: Re: Path to 9Dan, step by step.
Post #393 Posted: Tue Sep 03, 2019 2:38 pm 
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Over aggressive players are my favorite opponents. ;)

Some top of the head comments:

:w24: Passive. Better to approach a corner.

:w26: Good.

:w28: P-08. Don't let the double keima get away.

:w30: How about the keima approach to the top right corner? The bots have devalued the sides.

:w32: O-17. Important technical and psychological point. Tenuki, particularly early in the game, is a good weapon against over aggressive players. They are prepared for engagement. Because they are over aggressive, their judgement is not so good. Often it is better to let them have what they want, because it will not be enough.

:w36: I'm not sure that we can say this is a mistake, but please note that it does not threaten a ladder.

:w38: Tesuji, but see above. Maybe a mistake.

:w44: Case in point. White has thwarted Black's threats, but the exchange is good for Black.

:b45: Fortunately, Black makes a small play and gives it all back.

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 Post subject: Re: Path to 9Dan, step by step.
Post #394 Posted: Tue Sep 03, 2019 10:44 pm 
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Thanks for the comments Bill - here are my replies, and explanation of my moves at that time.

:white: 24 - I did spend a lot of time on this move, especially since the W22 was played to keep my stones light around the area. The corner approach, I wasn't a fan because of both small knight and large knight approaches. Small knight I wasn't a fan since Black P17, White O16 would follow, and then black was free to pincering the 2 white stones since black 23 was already played. Large Knight, if black secures his corner, then I just play along the top or something and call it a day, but black could pincer - and the initiative goes to him again.

I thought my move was a bit passive, but I thought it effectively settled my group. Maybe P14 was another choice here?

:white: 28 - definitely a missed opportunity
:white: 30 - definitely missed again. I don't have to worry about the pincer anymore since my group on the right is strong at this point.

:white: 32 - I played here to split the black stones into 2. I figured I was pretty thick everywhere across the board to start a fight even if black had that ponnuki in the bottom left. But, black effectively got a large corner as a result of not playing here. Might try the corner approach first next game.

:white: 36 - I was actually questioning my hane at W34 at the time, and I didn't know what was the best move. But I knew W36 didn't threaten the ladder when I played it haha. The reason I played it was because I saw 38 to 44 as the followup, and I honestly thought I would be in very good shape for the overall game even though it was a local gain for black. My judgement was - there's no way black's left is going to be full territory, black's bottom right is invade-able at the 3-3, or S6 if opportunity allows. And I figured i'd make some more points in the bottom after my extension (or at least attack if black invaded). I had Komi + 2 fat corners and thickness across the board. (LZ disagrees with me though :( thinks the game is 50-50 after 44 )

Let me know your thoughts!

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 Post subject: Re: Path to 9Dan, step by step.
Post #395 Posted: Wed Sep 04, 2019 3:38 am 
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Until getting to :w32: I had not articulated the point about tenuki being a valuable weapon against over aggressive players. Looking over my comments again I see that that is a major theme of them. It depends on over aggressive players not having good judgement. We can hardly call aggressive players with the judgement to back their aggression up over aggressive. ;) It is tempting, especially during a game when your dander is up, to meet them head on, to counter their threats or to settle your groups. But if their judgement in making their threat or attack is wrong, then you have better fish to fry elsewhere. OC, this comes down to a question of your judgement, but if your opponent is too aggressive, you probably have better judgement. :)

I actually like :b21:, the footsweep. The follow-up on the second line may be OK, too. However, once Black has made that play I mentally sacrifice :w20:. Even if :w24: settles your group, where is your territory? OC, if you do not answer you will probably have to weather an attack, but that's why we are nimble. :cool:

As for initiative, when playing an over aggressive player my attitude is that I have the initiative.

:w32: and following play. You correctly judged that you could counter Black's play. One thing that I have noticed going over Elf's commentaries on the GoGoD games is how often Elf thinks that one top level player has made a mistake costing around 10% and then their opponent immediately makes a response that costs about the same. I think that often reflects shared assumptions that the players have about the position. Human play did not develop in a vacuum. We share assumptions that gradually change over time when we discover problems with them. Your comment suggests that your view of the top left agreed pretty much with that of your opponent. Not much to say about that except that, if you think he is over aggressive, consider that his view might be wrong. ;)

:w36: I haven't read Hunter's Crosscut Worshop, but I am sure that it is good and well researched. From the standpoint of reading, the problem is that there are at least 8 candidate moves in response to a crosscut. The proverb says to extend, which seems to be an error, except when there are not other stones nearby. (An error in the sense that you have to consider the ataris as well.) Just sticking to the extensions, one virtue is the threat of a ladder. If you pick an extension that does not threaten a ladder, that is a mark against it. In the game you did have an exchange that was consistent with your original idea of contesting the top left. Was the exchange worth it? It comes down to a question of judgement, which you develop over time. LZ is a great help in that regard. :)

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 Post subject: Re: Path to 9Dan, step by step.
Post #396 Posted: Wed Sep 04, 2019 4:41 am 
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I took it from where Bill left it. I analyzed the situation at 45 first myself, then with Lizzie. It's yet another interesting lesson in "attacking for profit" or "make territory while attacking" with its counterpart "reduce territory while defending". More notes at move 60. The eventual race to capture is quite messy. Black self destructs after you falsify the eye. It seems like he doesn't know the basics of counting liberties in a race to capture.



After 25 years of playing Go I'm clearly very attached to the idea of attacking to seal in, from the top, rather than attacking sideways to make profit. This deficit in my Go thinking keeps coming back whenever I'm analyzing a position including attacking potential. Likewise, the counterpart of "reduce while defending" is not part of my Go system either.

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 Post subject: Re: Path to 9Dan, step by step.
Post #397 Posted: Wed Sep 04, 2019 5:29 am 
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Knotwilg wrote:
After 25 years of playing Go I'm clearly very attached to the idea of attacking to seal in, from the top, rather than attacking sideways to make profit.


When I was a 3 dan I had two secret weapons that were virtually unknown in the US at the time, both thanks to Sakata. One was the leaning attack, and the other was topping the tree, the attack from above. What opened my eyes, decades later, to the side attack was the classic on handicap go from two centuries ago, Okigo Jizai, by Hattori Inshuku. :) Aside from some joseki, not much has changed about handicap go since then. It is still about how to win a won game.

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 Post subject: Re: Path to 9Dan, step by step.
Post #398 Posted: Wed Sep 04, 2019 7:49 am 
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Thanks for the comments Knotwilg - especially on the part of attacking for profit. My original plan was to just build up enough strength on the bottom to invade at S6. I figured that'd be my profit. I did not like the corner invasion (even though LZ says its good in retrospect) - as it would make black strong everywhere, and I'd rather deal with destroying territory rather than dealing with thickness. Lastly, I think my 2nd profit was the eventual benefits I got from the top by moving out my 2 effectively dead stones. I don't think profit has to be immediate - as long as it eventually shows up in game, it's okay with me. But of course, my execution was poor lol

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 Post subject: Re: Path to 9Dan, step by step.
Post #399 Posted: Wed Sep 04, 2019 9:06 am 
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I've turned the position at 45 into a SL page: https://senseis.xmp.net/?AttackAndDefenceWithLizzie1

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 Post subject: Re: Path to 9Dan, step by step.
Post #400 Posted: Thu Sep 05, 2019 9:38 am 
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The 400th overall post in my journal, all within a 1.25 year span. Thank you to everyone who's helped me get this far, and motivating me to study the game more (though I'm not sure it's studying if it's fun haha)


Anyways, here are two games. I take a pretty solid position in the early game, allow a comeback in the middle game, and win due to some mistakes in the endgame from my opponents. I did go over with LZ a bit but left no comments in the sgfs. Feel free to look through.

Tsumego review - I finished going through LCH L&D Volume 2 and Tesuji Volume 2. Now to do LCH Tesuji Volume 3 and L&D Volume 3. That was as far as I got before my hiatus, so hopefully after that I'll be able to do the harder volumes.





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