It is currently Fri Apr 19, 2024 5:54 am

All times are UTC - 8 hours [ DST ]




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 84 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4, 5  Next
Author Message
Offline
 Post subject: Re: Deliberate Practice
Post #21 Posted: Mon Jul 06, 2015 6:01 pm 
Dies with sente

Posts: 73
Liked others: 3
Was liked: 9
Games 36 and 37
Ugh. The losing streak continues, this time with 2 losses on Tygem. The first game is another classic example of the fighting-based Tygem games where I struggle. In the second game, I fought better, but made a dumb endgame mistake that cost me the game. I wish I knew what to do to snap out of this. The only redeeming note is that I also happened to watch Haylee's Game 96, which was also a loss from her, and therefore a nice reminder that even very strong players can make mistakes.


Top
 Profile  
 
Offline
 Post subject: Re: Deliberate Practice
Post #22 Posted: Wed Jul 08, 2015 5:01 pm 
Dies with sente

Posts: 73
Liked others: 3
Was liked: 9
Game 38
I still don't feel like I'm playing my best, but I'm happy to report that I at least snapped the losing streak tonight. I still made quite a few mistakes, but since it seems I made one fewer mistake than my Tygem opponent, it was enough. Here is the game review: https://gokibitz.com/kifu/4kUHdiId

Top
 Profile  
 
Offline
 Post subject: Re: Deliberate Practice
Post #23 Posted: Fri Jul 10, 2015 6:03 pm 
Dies with sente

Posts: 73
Liked others: 3
Was liked: 9
Game 39
I played another game on Tygem tonight, which turned out to be a bit of a steam-roll. My opponent made a number of overplays, but this time, I felt like I was able to read effective ways to punish them. The result was an overwhelming win that felt quite nice after my recent struggles. Here's the game review: https://gokibitz.com/kifu/Vyoy5LKu


One thing I've noticed looking back at this journal, is that I seem to have much better results playing as Black than as White. I want to spend more time thinking about why this might be, and hopefully the answer will give me some idea of where my studying time is best spent.

Top
 Profile  
 
Offline
 Post subject: Re: Deliberate Practice
Post #24 Posted: Sat Jul 11, 2015 1:26 pm 
Dies with sente

Posts: 73
Liked others: 3
Was liked: 9
Game 40
Here is another reverse komi game against an IGS 4dan. The opening was both rather peaceful and somewhat difficult I found, and given my previous comment, I was nervous playing as White. That factored into my judgment to start the fight that ultimately decided the game. Luckily for me, my opponent chose a bad ko threat. Here is the review: https://gokibitz.com/kifu/N1DMqP9d

Top
 Profile  
 
Offline
 Post subject: Re: Deliberate Practice
Post #25 Posted: Sun Jul 12, 2015 11:08 am 
Oza
User avatar

Posts: 2411
Location: Ghent, Belgium
Liked others: 359
Was liked: 1019
Rank: KGS 2d OGS 1d Fox 4d
KGS: Artevelde
OGS: Knotwilg
Online playing schedule: UTC 18:00 - 22:00
The story of game 40 is: Black refuses to build anything in this game and allows White to make territory in all corners AND reduce his only moyo. It would be sufficient for White to lead that reducing group to the centre, making it safe and reducing the centre in one go. The margin would not be large but sufficient to overcome reverse komi. However, White seems to have no confidence in his lead and needlessly goes all out.

You have analyzed the fight sufficiently, so here are my comments on what happens before move 105, with the above story as the central line.


Top
 Profile  
 
Offline
 Post subject: Re: Deliberate Practice
Post #26 Posted: Thu Jul 16, 2015 5:44 pm 
Dies with sente

Posts: 73
Liked others: 3
Was liked: 9
Game 41
Here is yesterday's game against an IGS 5dan. My IGS games tend to have very long end-games, and this one is no exception. I find that both very challenging and very helpful, as this is one of the areas of my game where I think I can substantially improve. Still, it'd be naive to think there weren't other errors in my play, and you can see the several of them that I caught in the review here. https://gokibitz.com/kifu/V1PT0VZK

Top
 Profile  
 
Offline
 Post subject: Re: Deliberate Practice
Post #27 Posted: Fri Jul 17, 2015 7:08 am 
Beginner
User avatar

Posts: 13
Location: Oslo, Norway
Liked others: 0
Was liked: 1
Rank: KGS 2 Dan
KGS: acceleratr
I'm not sure I agree with the whole forcing yourself to study idea. Go is a hobby after all. To each his own though.

_________________
My go YouTube channel: https://www.youtube.com/user/DragonfistGaming
My website: http://learnbaduk.com/

Top
 Profile  
 
Offline
 Post subject: Re: Deliberate Practice
Post #28 Posted: Sat Jul 18, 2015 4:13 am 
Dies with sente

Posts: 73
Liked others: 3
Was liked: 9
Dragonfist wrote:
I'm not sure I agree with the whole forcing yourself to study idea. Go is a hobby after all. To each his own though.

I guess the unstated premise of this journal is that I want to improve my play. The point of deliberate practice is that improvement doesn't happen (or doesn't happen very quickly) from simply playing around and treating the game as a pure hobby, but instead requires some conscious effort. I don't have any problem with people who want to treat Go as a pure hobby, but I don't think doing so is consistent with my goal of improving.

Top
 Profile  
 
Offline
 Post subject: Re: Deliberate Practice
Post #29 Posted: Sat Jul 18, 2015 3:11 pm 
Dies with sente

Posts: 73
Liked others: 3
Was liked: 9
Games 42 and 43
Here are two recent games I played on Tygem, but neither is terribly worthwhile. I'm not sure exactly why, but I simply wasn't in the right mindset to play in game 42. Despite reasonable time limits, I played as though it were a blitz game, not bothering to read at all, and barely using any of my time. Even though it remained close, eventually I made enough errors that I needed to resign. I think Kirby's recent "Garbage In, Garbage Out" post sums up this game better than I could.

For Game 43, I played better, and was able to stable calm and deliberate throughout the game. That didn't stop me from making some terrible reading mistakes, including overlooking some terrible aji in the corner. Fortunately, I had built up enough of a lead that I was able to recover from that error.

In short, I need to continue working on my reading skills, instead of simply playing fast and loose and hoping things work out.



Top
 Profile  
 
Offline
 Post subject: Re: Deliberate Practice
Post #30 Posted: Sat Jul 18, 2015 10:59 pm 
Gosei
User avatar

Posts: 1378
Location: wHam!lton, Aotearoa
Liked others: 253
Was liked: 105
Hum. This is a joseki, right:
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bc
$$ | . . . , . . . . . ,
$$ | . . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . 0 . . 8 . . .
$$ | . . . . . 4 7 . . .
$$ | . . . O . 2 3 . . ,
$$ | . . . 6 5 1 . . 9 .
$$ | . . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . . . .
$$ +---------------------[/go]
I guess the game looks quite like that. I don't really like this choice here.

Black 2 at 6 says corner territory is very important here.

The basic line is this, right:
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bc
$$ | . . 8 , . . . . . ,
$$ | . . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . a . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . 4 . . . .
$$ | . . . O . 2 3 . . ,
$$ | . . . 6 5 1 . . . 7
$$ | . . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . . . .
$$ +---------------------[/go]
Black has played one wing of a hoshi, and white has problems given white 'a' directly is a little narrow, right?

_________________
Revisiting Go - Study Journal
My Programming Blog - About the evolution of my go bot.

Top
 Profile  
 
Offline
 Post subject: Re: Deliberate Practice
Post #31 Posted: Sun Jul 19, 2015 1:50 am 
Oza
User avatar

Posts: 2411
Location: Ghent, Belgium
Liked others: 359
Was liked: 1019
Rank: KGS 2d OGS 1d Fox 4d
KGS: Artevelde
OGS: Knotwilg
Online playing schedule: UTC 18:00 - 22:00
General remark:

You diligently play games and post them for review, but I'm still missing something in your "deliberate practice": what is it you are deliberately practicing?

When I'm reading a lament like
Quote:
I'm not sure exactly why, but I simply wasn't in the right mindset to play in game 42. Despite reasonable time limits, I played as though it were a blitz game, not bothering to read at all, and barely using any of my time. Even though it remained close, eventually I made enough errors that I needed to resign.

I'm getting the impression that you've lost track. You mention a couple of issues here which I have discussed at my Sensei's blog:
- play games with the right attitude
- don't resign out of emotion but because the game is truly lost
- manage your time

Most importantly, these are things you can practice and in my opinion should be practiced before practicing anything else. This will train your mind to play all future games with the right attitude, make time management a second nature and save you from emotional measures like resigning out of disappointment with yourself.

This is of course my opinion and you can choose to practice whatever you want in whichever order, but right now I'm under the impression you are not really deliberately practicing anything at all.

Incidentally, game 41 contained an interesting notion of "thickness". Moves 64 through 72.

Cheers



Top
 Profile  
 
Offline
 Post subject: Re: Deliberate Practice
Post #32 Posted: Sun Jul 19, 2015 4:44 am 
Dies with sente

Posts: 73
Liked others: 3
Was liked: 9
@Loons: Yes, you've posted the most common joseki in response to White's attachment. Recently, I've been playing the joseki you saw in the game because it felt like a nearly identical shape, except that White's corner is slightly smaller. Either way, my struggle is always how to deal with the left side after White plays out this sequence. It ends up feeling to me like sanrensei, except that White also has the corner territory.

@Knotwilg: Thanks again for the comments. My goal with deliberate practice had been to change how I respond to my games (especially losses). Previously, I had simply dismissed them, or quickly hit the button to start another game to try to redeem myself. Now, with the review, I'm at least trying to learn a bit more about why I lost, in order to (hopefully) avoid repeating mistakes.

There is a separate aspect that you rightly highlight, which is the self-discipline aspect of playing deliberately as opposed to instinctively. There is probably some confirmation bias going on here, but I do think that the reviews are also assisting with that. In reviewing the game, I have the chance to experiment with some additional lines of play, and (with the exception of Game 42), I'd like to think that this is translating into more deliberate play and reading during games as well. Before this project, I think I played many more games like Game 42, but now they thankfully seem more rare.

Top
 Profile  
 
Offline
 Post subject: Re: Deliberate Practice
Post #33 Posted: Sun Jul 19, 2015 1:25 pm 
Gosei
User avatar

Posts: 1378
Location: wHam!lton, Aotearoa
Liked others: 253
Was liked: 105
@Studying

The difference being the push through and cut big, bad ko aji v the less crazy common invasion point at C6, right? Takao's joseki dictionary vol 2 covers this pretty well.

_________________
Revisiting Go - Study Journal
My Programming Blog - About the evolution of my go bot.

Top
 Profile  
 
Offline
 Post subject: Re: Deliberate Practice
Post #34 Posted: Sun Jul 19, 2015 3:14 pm 
Oza
User avatar

Posts: 2411
Location: Ghent, Belgium
Liked others: 359
Was liked: 1019
Rank: KGS 2d OGS 1d Fox 4d
KGS: Artevelde
OGS: Knotwilg
Online playing schedule: UTC 18:00 - 22:00
studying wrote:
My goal with deliberate practice had been to change how I respond to my games (especially losses). Previously, I had simply dismissed them, or quickly hit the button to start another game to try to redeem myself. Now, with the review, I'm at least trying to learn a bit more about why I lost, in order to (hopefully) avoid repeating mistakes. (...) Before this project, I think I played many more games like Game 42, but now they thankfully seem more rare.


So you're practicing the rhythm of playing decent games. All right. That's good progress then. Your project is interesting to watch. Do well!

Top
 Profile  
 
Offline
 Post subject: Re: Deliberate Practice
Post #35 Posted: Sat Aug 01, 2015 1:21 pm 
Dies with sente

Posts: 73
Liked others: 3
Was liked: 9
Game 44
I hadn't had a chance to play any go in the last two weeks, since I was preoccupied with moving to a new house. Now that things are settled down a bit, I was happy to have the chance to play another game.

This was a no-komi game against an IGS 4d+. I made a few misreads/blunders, but was pretty happy with how I developed and defended the moyo. Here's the review:
https://gokibitz.com/kifu/Vkxj_zL9

Top
 Profile  
 
Offline
 Post subject: Re: Deliberate Practice
Post #36 Posted: Sun Aug 02, 2015 8:03 am 
Dies with sente

Posts: 73
Liked others: 3
Was liked: 9
Game 45
I played another game on Tygem today, and was reasonably happy with my play. My opponent played moves that could have easily derailed me into another garbage game, but I was able to keep calm and play deliberate moves. That said, I felt I got lucky in the main fight. Here is the review: https://gokibitz.com/kifu/VyeCyXDq

Top
 Profile  
 
Offline
 Post subject: Re: Deliberate Practice
Post #37 Posted: Sun Aug 02, 2015 8:40 am 
Gosei
User avatar

Posts: 1810
Liked others: 490
Was liked: 365
Rank: KGS 1-dan
Some low-level-kibitz ; )


_________________
My "guide" to become stronger in Go

Top
 Profile  
 
Offline
 Post subject: Re: Deliberate Practice
Post #38 Posted: Mon Aug 03, 2015 5:23 am 
Oza
User avatar

Posts: 2411
Location: Ghent, Belgium
Liked others: 359
Was liked: 1019
Rank: KGS 2d OGS 1d Fox 4d
KGS: Artevelde
OGS: Knotwilg
Online playing schedule: UTC 18:00 - 22:00
Overall, good decision making it seems, good time management and according choices of moves (cautious or daring). Perhaps a little too eager to fight, first on the left, then in the centre. Interesting question around :w28:. Great counter at :w38: - would never have thought of that.


Top
 Profile  
 
Offline
 Post subject: Re: Deliberate Practice
Post #39 Posted: Mon Aug 03, 2015 8:17 am 
Oza
User avatar

Posts: 2401
Location: Tokyo, Japan
Liked others: 2339
Was liked: 1332
Rank: Jp 6 dan
KGS: ez4u
The direction of 20 ('a' below) feels wrong to me. What if White plays :w1:, making territory at the top? Black is too thin at the top to cap at 3 with 2. So if :b2:, then :w3:.
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wc
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O , . . . 1 . , . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X X . . X . 2 . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O , O . O . 3 , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . X . a . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X , . X . . . , . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


When White plays :w1: below (22 in the game), I would have an irresistible urge as Black to turn at :b2: even if I lost some stones. White's four stones end up suffering from a shortage of liberties and meanwhile the gaps at 'a' and 'b' mean that Black will pick up the marked stone. If White can't push immediately at 2 with 22, then I think the simple hanging connection is necessary here.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wc
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O a O O b W . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O 9 6 8 X X . , . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . O X 5 4 . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X X 7 3 X . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . 1 . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . 0 . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O . . . . . O 2 . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O , O O O X X , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X X O . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . X . O . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X , . X . . . , . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

_________________
Dave Sigaty
"Short-lived are both the praiser and the praised, and rememberer and the remembered..."
- Marcus Aurelius; Meditations, VIII 21

Top
 Profile  
 
Offline
 Post subject: Re: Deliberate Practice
Post #40 Posted: Mon Aug 03, 2015 8:35 am 
Oza
User avatar

Posts: 2411
Location: Ghent, Belgium
Liked others: 359
Was liked: 1019
Rank: KGS 2d OGS 1d Fox 4d
KGS: Artevelde
OGS: Knotwilg
Online playing schedule: UTC 18:00 - 22:00
ez4u wrote:
The direction of 20 ('a' below) feels wrong to me. What if White plays :w1:, making territory at the top? Black is too thin at the top to cap at 3 with 2. So if :b2:, then :w3:.
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wc
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O , . . . 1 . , . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X X . . X . 2 . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O , O . O . 3 , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . X . a . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X , . X . . . , . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


When White plays :w1: below (22 in the game), I would have an irresistible urge as Black to turn at :b2: even if I lost some stones. White's four stones end up suffering from a shortage of liberties and meanwhile the gaps at 'a' and 'b' mean that Black will pick up the marked stone. If White can't push immediately at 2 with 22, then I think the simple hanging connection is necessary here.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wc
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O a O O b W . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O 9 6 8 X X . , . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . O X 5 4 . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X X 7 3 X . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . 1 . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . 0 . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O . . . . . O 2 . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O , O O O X X , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X X O . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . X . O . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X , . X . . . , . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Concerning the first suggestion, I agree White's turn is thin but I'd tenuki for the right or bottom. I don't think the development at the top is urgent or big. White's head is already sticking out.

About the second one, I had the same urge but felt uncomfortable with the sacrifice. Still it looks more than playable in your diagram.

Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 84 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4, 5  Next

All times are UTC - 8 hours [ DST ]


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
Powered by phpBB © 2000, 2002, 2005, 2007 phpBB Group