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 Post subject: Re: Deliberate Practice
Post #41 Posted: Mon Aug 03, 2015 9:03 am 
Gosei
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Hm, interesting.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$W
$$ +---------------------------------------+
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . a . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . 1 , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X , . X . . . , . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ +---------------------------------------+[/go]


I don't think :w1: is a natural extension because it has no connection to White's corner stone. If at 'a', I could see the connection (pincering an approach move by Black) but then it would be a lukewarm extension not really countering Black's wide Shimari. I guess, you can even make a point that with such a wide Shimari the extension loses value because you have considerable less strength to back it up - though, that's probably above my head (or wrong?) ; )

For me, this just denies Black a good extension but the prospects for a good White development look slim - meaning, this move has no good follow-up in my opinion. If White takes his Shimari then :w1: ends on the wrong side. If White plays something like Keima from the 3-4-stone, then there is a lot of room for Black to enter.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$W
$$ +---------------------------------------+
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . a . . . . 2 . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . 1 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . b , . . . . . , . . . . . , 1 . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X , . X . . . , . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ +---------------------------------------+[/go]


If we imagine that play goes like this, then I guess I erred on saying the top and the left are Miai since now the right side seems more important for both. Now :w1: is a natural extension, countering Black's Shimari. But after this I find it quite complicated to say which moves are now biggest. 'a' or 'b'? And what about the bottom?

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 Post subject: Re: Deliberate Practice
Post #42 Posted: Mon Aug 03, 2015 11:10 am 
Oza

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Incidentally, in game 44, you are aware that instead of move 152, white could play at the 1-2 point and force ko for life, since black played the ill-advised D18 exchange?

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 Post subject: Re: Deliberate Practice
Post #43 Posted: Sat Sep 26, 2015 5:44 pm 
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Game 46
I haven't been able to play go for about the last 2 months due to various other obligations. (It turns out that planning a wedding takes a lot of time!) Looking back at what I missed, I'm really grateful for everyone's helpful comments on my last few games, they're really insightful and I plan to give them more careful study in the coming days.

However, tonight I wanted to dive back into getting the rust cleaned up off my game. I decided to try my luck on KGS, even though the rating system there tends to stress me out. On servers like IGS and Tygem, I can more easily convince myself to shake off a loss because a win balances things out pretty well. On KGS, the ranks seem to get sticky so quickly that any loss feels like a bigger deal because I know it will take several wins to put me back on the upward trajectory that I think most go players want to be on.

In any case, here is tonight's game. I felt I played reasonably well, although I can tell I'm still not back completely to where I was over the summer: https://gokibitz.com/kifu/Ekdftmlyx


Last edited by studying on Sun Sep 27, 2015 1:25 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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 Post subject: Re: Deliberate Practice
Post #44 Posted: Sat Sep 26, 2015 9:15 pm 
Oza

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studying wrote:
I haven't been able to play go for about the last 2 months due to various other obligations. (It turns out that planning a wedding takes a lot of time!) Looking back at what I missed, I'm really grateful for everyone's helpful comments on my last few games, they're really insightful and I plan to give them more careful study in the coming days.

However, tonight I wanted to dive back into getting the rust cleaned up off my game. I decided to try my luck on KGS, even though the rating system there tends to stress me out. On servers like IGS and Tygem, I can more easily convince myself to shake off a loss because a win balances things out pretty well. On KGS, the ranks seem to get sticky so quickly that any loss feels like a bigger deal because I know it will take several wins to put me back on the upward trajectory that I think most go players want to be on.

In any case, here is tonight's game. I felt I played reasonably well, although I can tell I'm still not back completely to where I was over the summer: https://gokibitz.com/kifu/Ekdftmlyx


Some thoughts:
Move 21: Seems fine to me. Black's looking for a submissive response, since there's still a lot of aji.
Move 27: Very slow on black's part. His group already has the extension down the side and is safe. Black should cause trouble for white with the stone he used to invade.
Move 30: I like the pincer, personally. You can block to build prospects on the left instead, you know, and still have a decently strong position on top.
Move 32: I'm not sure I like this variation. Perhaps a looser pincer is better, though the corner is good too.
Move 50: Seems a bit deep. :b51: is indeed submissive.
Move 55: Without looking too deeply, this seems like the right direction, though maybe the one-space jump is better.
Move 73: Seems fine. 83 should just be a descent.
Move 91: Weird timing and wrong direction. Black needs to help his group on the left more if he means to save them, and really should respond to the hane. Trying to save this stone later too was a mistake

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 Post subject: Re: Deliberate Practice
Post #45 Posted: Sun Sep 27, 2015 1:37 pm 
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Game 47
I played another game on KGS today. Still not my best play, and I think there was a critical error ( :w38: ) that my opponent fortunately failed to capitalize on. That said, this game turned into a pretty intense reading battle, and I feel like those skills are coming back more. And, I'm enjoying experimenting with this opening for the time being, even if it's a bit different from what I would usually play.

@skydyr: Thanks for the comments on Game 46. I think I generally agree with your analysis of Black's play. I want to think a bit more about your proposal to pincer and build thickness along the left after :w30:.

Here is game 47: https://gokibitz.com/kifu/VJFwMrbkg

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 Post subject: Re: Deliberate Practice
Post #46 Posted: Wed Sep 30, 2015 5:40 pm 
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Game 48
In today's game, I felt that I lacked fighting spirit. I missed several opportunities to go on the attack and/or exploit bad shape by my opponent, and instead had to wait until scoring to claim victory. That said, my reading felt sharper and I felt like I was doing a better job of avoiding tempting but wrong moves that I would have played in the past. I'm particularly happy with that given that my opponent was playing so fast, which normally can throw me off and encourage me to just play on (sometimes bad) instinct. Here's the review: https://gokibitz.com/kifu/Vkl5yOHyl

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 Post subject: Re: Deliberate Practice
Post #47 Posted: Tue Oct 06, 2015 4:04 pm 
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Game 49
I felt I played pretty well in this game against a KGS 2d, with the exception of a complete lack of concentration for 2 moves in the middle-game. That lapse should have cost me the game, but I managed to squeeze out a victory after my opponent failed to capitalize. I gave this one a bit more of a thorough review, and still caught quite a few mistakes, so (obviously) there's plenty more work to do. Here's the review: https://gokibitz.com/kifu/4yYcWrTkl

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 Post subject: Re: Deliberate Practice
Post #48 Posted: Tue Oct 06, 2015 6:57 pm 
Oza

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No claims to correctness, but a couple thoughts:

At :w18: you need p3 I think. Black's K4 is one space too far, and P3 make miai of living easily in the corner or getting a good base on the side with few worries.

At move 100, did you consider invading the right side around R12 or just taking the 3-3 point? It's not clear to me that black's move in the center should have been answered, and black looks pretty thin here after not responding earlier.

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 Post subject: Re: Deliberate Practice
Post #49 Posted: Wed Oct 07, 2015 4:02 am 
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skydyr wrote:
At :w18: you need p3 I think. Black's K4 is one space too far, and P3 make miai of living easily in the corner or getting a good base on the side with few worries.

Hmm, I'm not sure I like the living in the corner option for White. It feels a bit like what happened to Black later, where the opponent ends up with influence over a massive part of the board. For example, something like:
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$c Black influence.
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . O . . . . . . . O . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . O . 4 . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . 3 . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . . . . . . 5 . X . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . X . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . O X . . . . . . . 1 . W . 2 . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]



skydyr wrote:
At move 100, did you consider invading the right side around R12 or just taking the 3-3 point? It's not clear to me that black's move in the center should have been answered, and black looks pretty thin here after not responding earlier.

Something like these moves was what I hoped to do later, but for the time being I felt Black's move was a reasonably strong attack on the White stones. (The tiger's mouth that I played is less about saving the one stone and more about threatening to connect to the left.) If White plays tenuki, a Black play at N2 looks really annoying to me.

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 Post subject: Re: Deliberate Practice
Post #50 Posted: Sat Oct 17, 2015 6:01 pm 
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Three games for this post. I keep trying to find games on KGS, but after 5-10 minutes of sitting watching the Automatch spin with no results each time, I've instead headed back to Tygem or IGS to play. These games aren't terribly impressive though: one unlucky loss, one lucky win, and one straight-forward loss (where I once again struggled as White). Maybe it's just rust from taking some time off, but I feel like my progress has stalled. I'm going to need to figure out something to jump-start things again.

Game 50
https://gokibitz.com/kifu/Ey0anAsxg


Game 51
https://gokibitz.com/kifu/N13AnRigx


Game 52
https://gokibitz.com/kifu/VJAC3Riel

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 Post subject: Re: Deliberate Practice
Post #51 Posted: Sun Aug 21, 2016 11:26 am 
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Game B1
I'm returning to Go after about a year off to explore other hobbies, and I'm hoping I can again find the discipline for some deliberate practice to get back to my previous skill level and (ideally) beyond. I dusted off a practice Tygem account and played this game, which served as a reminder of just how important reading is. Shape ideas and directional instinct feel like they're coming back pretty quick, but I'll need to keep hitting the tsumego books to sharpen up my reading skills.
GoKibitz version here: https://gokibitz.com/kifu/EkrsoCf5b


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 Post subject: Re: Deliberate Practice
Post #52 Posted: Sun Aug 21, 2016 9:57 pm 
Oza
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In the upper right answer S18 with R19, no? The problem seems to be R18 instead of S18.

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 Post subject: Re: Deliberate Practice
Post #53 Posted: Fri Aug 26, 2016 4:38 am 
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ez4u wrote:
In the upper right answer S18 with R19, no? The problem seems to be R18 instead of S18.


Yes, you're exactly right. I played around with some more variations and occasionally ended up with a ko, but the situation isn't as bad as I thought.

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Post #54 Posted: Sat Aug 27, 2016 10:49 am 
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At the same time I'm getting back into Go, I'm also trying to get back into running after a similar length break, and I'm finding that doing both at the same time has a few very nice benefits. Most notably, I think that the improvement-curves for each are similar (months, not weeks to see real improvement), but the running feedback is more immediate and precise than a vague win or loss that depends on dozens of moves or mistakes. It's just as easy to catch myself saying, "I've been training/practicing for 2 weeks now, surely I can" (a) run a sub-20:00 5K or (b) play like an 8dan, and both are equally ludicrous. However, I can head outside and in 15 minutes prove to myself just how far off I am about my running improvement, and that's a nice check on my dreams of rapid go improvement too.

That said, regular (deliberate) practice is still the key to each, so here's today's game:
https://gokibitz.com/kifu/VkxcJ65cZ
Game B2


A few takeaways from my review:
  • My reading still needs work
  • Playing for territory can be effective
  • Don't be afraid to play the solid move. It's not as slow as it looks
As always, comments/corrections welcome.

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 Post subject: Re: Deliberate Practice
Post #55 Posted: Sun Aug 28, 2016 11:16 am 
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I'm pretty thrilled to report another game where I was reasonably happy with my play. I missed a few chances to wrap things up earlier, but overall, I'm enjoying embracing the territorial style. I think the same three takeaways from the last game apply again here:

Game B3
If you want to jump straight to my questions, :b27:, :b35:, and :b77: seem like the most interesting positions to me.
Here is the GoKibitz link: https://gokibitz.com/kifu/4yWmuzn5b


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Post #56 Posted: Sun Aug 28, 2016 11:56 am 
Honinbo
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Hi studying,

Which other hobbies ?

Welcome back and good luck ! :)

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Post #57 Posted: Sun Aug 28, 2016 1:34 pm 
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EdLee wrote:
Which other hobbies ?

A whole mix of things. I spent a month or two working on writing a novel, and a month or two focusing on my small bonsai collection and garden. I also spent some time with the stereotypical go player hobbies of chess and computer programming. Finally, they're not hobbies, but since my last set of games I also managed to get married and a job promotion! Things feel a bit calmer now, which may be why it's been easier for me to decide to return to the game.

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Post #58 Posted: Sun Aug 28, 2016 2:22 pm 
Honinbo
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Wow, congrats !

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 Post subject: Re: Deliberate Practice
Post #59 Posted: Sun Aug 28, 2016 10:03 pm 
Oza
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At 19 how about pushing up?

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm1 Just keep on pushing?
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . X O X X . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . X . . . 1 O O O X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . 3 2 . . . X . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . 5 4 . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . 7 6 . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


At 27 shouldn't Black simply threaten the invasion while widening the bottom? The direct invasion greatly strengthens White for only a few additional points.
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm1 Better to threaten the invasion?
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . X . X . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . O . . . . . X O X X . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . X . . . . O O O X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 1 . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . X . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


At 156 White played 1 below and Black answered at 3. However, if Black connects the ko, it does not seem that White can live. Did I miss something?
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm1 No life?
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O X X . . . . . . X . X . . . . |
$$ | . O O O O X . O X . . . . X O X X . . |
$$ | . X O X X . X X O X X X . . O O O X . |
$$ | . X X O X . . O O X O O X X 3 5 4 X . |
$$ | . O O O X . . O X X . . O O . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . X O . . O O X X X 1 . O 6 . . |
$$ | . . . O O . O . . . O O X O . O X . . |
$$ | . . O O X O . . . . . O O X O O X . . |
$$ | . . . X . X . . . , . O X 2 X O X . . |
$$ | . . O O . . . . . O . O . X . O O X . |
$$ | . . . . . . O O O X O . . X . . . X . |
$$ | . . . . . O X X X X O . X . X . X . . |
$$ | . O O O . O X . . O O X . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X X . X X X O . . . O X . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . O . X X O . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . X X . X O O O O O X X . X . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X X O . X X O X . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

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Post #60 Posted: Mon Aug 29, 2016 6:25 am 
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studying wrote:
At the same time I'm getting back into Go, I'm also trying to get back into running after a similar length break, and I'm finding that doing both at the same time has a few very nice benefits.

This summer, I considered trying to arrange a 5k 5k, where my opponent would agree to run 5 kilometers with me before playing a game. :lol: I think it would be fun.


This post by jeromie was liked by: sparky314
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