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 Post subject: (Just enough) Japanese to read classical commentaries
Post #1 Posted: Fri Apr 01, 2016 1:58 am 
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Being a history nut, I have always been interested in classical go games and have replayed a lot of ancient Chinese and Japanese games since I learned go. Recently, reading more about go during the Edo period and the following decades made me even more interested in having access to more material.
Posts/books/articles by John Fairbairn and mention by Bill Spight of Hattori Inshuku's Okigo Jizai were kind of eye-openers: there is a vast amount of commented go games and instructional material just waiting to be read.

Background
I have studied a bit of Chinese ten years ago, stopped completely afterwards but still remember plenty of characters. Using Chinese tsumego books has also helped retention and acquisition of new vocabulary items. This means I already know words and should be able to look up for kanji quite easily in online or paper dictionaries.

I also studied a very tiny bit of Japanese at some point. Some basic grammar must still be stored somewhere in my memory. If not, the experience might be more painful than I intend it to.

Goal
Modest, but may be too ambitious still. I hope to acquire a very basic knowledge of written Japanese that will enable me to "read" (i. e. get the gist of) a very specific subset of Japanese literature: game commentaries. Even this apparently modest goal will surely prove too much and the project will probably end before that goal is reached. After all, this is only a side project of an already time consuming hobby. Still, let's give it a try.

Tools
Online Japanese dictionaries (mainly jisho.org)
Japanese grammar books I still have at home
Google for puzzling grammar points
...

Material
I will use books from the Digital Library of the Meiji Era website because my interest lies in reading commentaries about games of the Edo/Meiji period. There is so much material here that choice might prove difficult. Interestingly many books have the kanji "subtitled" in hiragana. I'd like for the text to be rather short so that I can translate entire pieces in one go, this usually gives a nice feeling of accomplishement.
At the moment I have my eyes set upon vol. 2 of Shusai's commented games (打碁選集. 下巻, 1939) and 置碁打方妙手百番 (1918), a collection of "fake" handicap games for learning purposes.
Shusai's commented games have no furigana but each sentence is rather short and the matter interests me very much. Texts in the 置碁打方妙手百番 are longer but use furigana. At this point I don't know which one I will use, maybe both.


This post by Shenoute was liked by 2 people: jeromie, Richard Hunter
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Post #2 Posted: Fri Apr 01, 2016 2:05 am 
Oza

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Interesting project! I'm not sure if you've come across it or it'll be much help but this online grammar resource is the most thorough that I've seen: http://www.imabi.net/

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Post #3 Posted: Fri Apr 01, 2016 2:50 am 
Oza

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Quote:
I also studied a very tiny bit of Japanese at some point. Some basic grammar must still be stored somewhere in my memory. If not, the experience might be more painful than I intend it to.


Do be aware that if you intend to use the old resources, you are going to come up against several problems:

1. Many more characters will be used, even for common grammatical words or endings, and these are often not in ordinary dictionaries. You will probably need a dictionary of the old language (古語辞書) and most certainly a Japanese-Japanese one.

2. The characters, and sometimes even the kana, will be in their old forms.

3. Kana spellings will be old form.

4. The grammar will be classical (e.g. -eba meaning 'because', not 'if', which is -aba).

5. Many texts will actually be in Chinese.

You can ease, but not eradicate, some of these problems by limiting yourself to Meiji or pre-war Showa texts.

So long as you know what you are letting yourself in for, it's a great ride!


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Post #4 Posted: Fri Apr 01, 2016 7:15 am 
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Thank you both for your comments and references to tools!

Yes, I was planning to use Meiji and Show texts precisely because I didn't want to tackle a Japanese that would be too far away from what I could easily find described online or in reference books.
As for characters and kana, I've only done a couple of sentences but have already run into plenty of apparently older forms. It certainly adds difficulty :D

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Post #5 Posted: Fri Apr 01, 2016 7:22 am 
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I finally settled on Shusai's commented games (打碁選集. 下巻*) as a starting point, so here it is. I'll post a sentence at a time and a sgf with all comments at the end. Shusai's comments are apparently brief and not that numerous (around 5/10 per game).

As I hoped, I seem to recall (at least vaguely) what the different particles mean, but I checked anyway to make sure and refresh my memory. Of course there is still plenty of semi-guesswork at play, so mistakes are sure to creep in in numbers. Feel free to comment and correct!

2nd game
Diagram 1 (p.3)

*黒十四はこの手で四五に詰めるのも好點である。

はha (read wa) topic marker, "as for"
この kono "this"
手te "move"
で de particle of location "at", also "by means of"
に ni particle marking direction "to"
の no, A no B means that A characterizes B
も mo "also, too"
詰める tsumeru, lots of different meaning given at jisho.org. As far as the game of go is concerned,
"to check" (as meant of extensions) seems to be the meaning here.
好點 "good point", maybe read kou ten? Is 點 an old form of 点?
である de aru is explained as a more formal version of desu in the grammar books I used. A wa B desu "A = B".

Translation
"As for :b14:, at/with this move the also-good-point of the checking at 45 exists." > " :b14: could also be the checking extension at 45."/" :b14:, a checking extension at 45 would also be a good point."

With a diagram (45 is the marked intersection):
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm11
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X , . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . X . X . . . , . . 4 1 . , O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . M . O . 2 . X 3 . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


*Only vol. 2 seems to be available at the Digital Library from the Meiji Era.

Edit. Added/corrected diagram.


Last edited by Shenoute on Wed Apr 06, 2016 11:24 pm, edited 3 times in total.
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 Post subject: Re: (Just enough) Japanese to read classical commentaries
Post #6 Posted: Mon Apr 04, 2016 11:34 pm 
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*黒十六は二二の挟みを先にしたい處であつた。

挟み hasami "pincer"
o particle marking direct object
先に sakini "before"
したい "want to do", an adjective
處 tokoro "place/situation", outdated kanji for 所 according to jisho.org
つた -tsuta = -tta, verbal ending. De atta seems to be the past of de aru

Translation
"As for :b16:, the place-wanting-to-do-the-pincer-of-22-before exists." > " :b16:, one wants to pincer at 22 first."

That is (22 is the marked intersection)
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm16
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . O . . . M . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X , . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 1 . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . X . X . . . , . . X O . , O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . O . . O . X . X O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Edit. Corrected diagram.


Last edited by Shenoute on Wed Apr 06, 2016 11:24 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Post #7 Posted: Tue Apr 05, 2016 11:38 pm 
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*黒二十乃至三十となつた姿は、然し相當手厚い形である。

乃至 A naishi B "from A to B"
となつた tonatsuta > tonatta past form of tonaru, "to become"
姿 sugata "figure, form, shape"
然し shikashi "but, however" (I don't see exactly why a "but" would be needed here, so maybe = 然 "if so, in that case" here)
當 (> modern 当) "right, appropriate".相 當 "mutually acceptable", "suitable for both", "even"
厚い atsui "thick"
形 katachi "shape"

sugata/katachi: my impression is that katachi is the more technical term (it is referenced on Sensei's Library), while sugata may refer more generally to the aspect of the position as a whole (the "result"?).

I am unsure about 手厚い形 part. A little googling shows that 手厚い forms a unit, meaning "courteous, cordial". 手厚い形 appears on some shogi and go websites. Does it still mean "thick shape" or simply "good/confortable shape"?

Translation
"From :b20: to :b30:, as for the shape/form/aspect having become, it is an acceptable-for-both and good (thick?) shape." > "The sequence from 20 to 30 gives an even result and a good (thick?) shape."

( :b20: is the marked stone)
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm21
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . 7 5 . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . O 1 . 6 2 O 9 . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X , . B . 4 3 8 . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . 0 . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . X . X . . . , . . X O . , O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . O . . O . X . X O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Edit. Corrected diagram.


Last edited by Shenoute on Wed Apr 06, 2016 11:23 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Post #8 Posted: Wed Apr 06, 2016 11:22 pm 
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*白三七は黒、の對鏡を嫌ふ。

My guess is that the comma is used here to make sure that い is not to be read but refers to an intersection on the diagram. It seems to be the case also in other diagrams but not always.

對鎖 seems to be problematic to modern dictionaries. It may be the same as 封鎖 "blockade" (jisho.org). Interchangeable use of similar characters (對/封) is something I encountered in Classical Chinese so I guess it is not suprising to find it also in Japanese.

嫌ふ not sure about the ending ふ here. As far as I have been able to find information, this seems to be an old form of the modern kirai "to dislike".

Translation
"As for :w37:, one dislikes the blockade of black い." > " :w37: prevents white from being sealed in by black い."

(い being the marked intersection)
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm37
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . O O . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . O O . X X O O . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X , . X . X . X . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . M 1 . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . X . . |
$$ | . . O . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . X . . . O . X O . O . . . |
$$ | . . . X . X . . . , . . X O . , O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . O . . O . X . X O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

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Post #9 Posted: Thu Apr 07, 2016 1:43 am 
Judan

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Are you aware of Richard Hunter's books:
- "Just Enough Japanese - Volume One: Basic Level Practical Japanese for Go Players"
- "Just Enough Japanese - Volume Two: Intermediate Level Practical Japanese for Go Players"
They are available as smartgo books from https://gobooks.com/books.html, not sure if there is a paper version.

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Post #10 Posted: Thu Apr 07, 2016 3:05 am 
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Uberdude wrote:
Are you aware of Richard Hunter's books:
- "Just Enough Japanese - Volume One: Basic Level Practical Japanese for Go Players"
- "Just Enough Japanese - Volume Two: Intermediate Level Practical Japanese for Go Players"
They are available as smartgo books from https://gobooks.com/books.html, not sure if there is a paper version.

Thanks for the reference. Sadly I have nothing to read smartgo books on.

Marcel Grünauer wrote:
I've found a page about classical Japanese, which states that "verbs now ending in う (u) once ended in ふ (hu) instead, and conjugated accordingly".

It might also - but this is a wild guess, I'm not an etymologist, nor is my Japanese fluent - have to do with something called 終止形 (shuushi-kei) "conclusive form", which "was the form used to end a statement."

Thanks! At the moment, I try to focus on vocabulary and particles, so as long as I don't miss a negation I'm ok but at some point I will indeed need to spend more time on verbal forms.

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Post #11 Posted: Fri Apr 08, 2016 3:12 am 
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*黒五六は適切な受方が無いのと一つには勢ひであつたらう。

適切な tekisetsu appropriate/adequate
受 take/get/catch
-方 method of (vb+方)
無い nai verbal negation
のと no to because of
一つには hitotsu ni wa for one thing/only
勢ひ as such on http://kobun.weblio.jp. Apparently equivalent of 気勢 fervour/ardour/vigour; 活力 vitality/energy/dynamism
-らう -rau my understanding (quite an overstatment) is based on this and a sentence found here. Basically -rau seems to bring a touch of inference/probability.

I'm not sure I go this one right. Since the meaning of the sentence seems to hang on who does not catch what (white cannot catch 56 or black cannot catch the white group is trying to cut off?), which is left unsaid and on the nuance brought by the use of hitotsu ni wa and -rau. After pondering grammar and the game record, it seems to me that the meaning here is that since black cannot expect to catch the white group at the bottom, his move at 56 appears powerful but actually isn't.

Translation
"As for :b56:, because there is no adequate way to catch, it would only seem to be powerful." > "Since there is no adequate way to catch (white's marked stones), :b56: only appears powerful."

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm56
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . O O . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . O O . X X O O . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X , . X . X . X . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X X . . . . , . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . O . . . . . . . . . . X . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . X . O . X . . |
$$ | . O O . O . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . X . . . X . . . P . X O . O . . . |
$$ | . . . X . X . . X X P . X O . , O . . |
$$ | . . . . O . . P P . P . X . X O . . . |
$$ | . . . . X O 1 . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

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Post #12 Posted: Fri Apr 08, 2016 4:17 am 
Oza

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Quote:
I'm not sure I go this one right.


No: Seeing there was no suitable way to defend, Black 56 and so on was probably inevitable.

'to' is quotation with ellipsis of the verb.

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Post #13 Posted: Fri Apr 08, 2016 7:52 am 
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Well, this one was a fail indeed. None of the dictionaries I consulted mentions "to defend" for ukeru...I guess this illustrates the shortcomings of my relaxed approach :)

Many thanks to you both!

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Post #14 Posted: Mon Apr 11, 2016 2:04 am 
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Marcel Grünauer wrote:
Shenoute wrote:
None of the dictionaries I consulted mentions "to defend" for ukeru


Tangorin has "accept" and "receive": http://tangorin.com/general/%E5%8F%97

Sensei's Library also has an entry: http://senseis.xmp.net/?Ukeru and says that 受ける "means to answer an opponent's move or to defend in a responsive fashion. The sense of preventive defense is conveyed by mamoru."

Maybe a related word is 受付 [うけつけ] "reception desk, information desk". So it's a way of receiving a visitor who has already arrived.

Thank you for the references. Yes, "to defend" seems to be an extension of the basic meaning "to receive". Incidentally the meaning "to parry" is given in a 1904 dictionary Japanese-French dictionary. That's the closest thing I've found.

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Post #15 Posted: Mon Apr 11, 2016 4:42 am 
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* 黒六二は今度白からこの點に差込まれては收拾出来ない。

今度 kondo now, at the present time
-kara from
差込 short for 差し込む sashikomu to insert, to thrust/差し込み sashikomi insertion/ thrust)?
-mare contraction of -m syllable with are, sashikomi are > sashikomare
ては if; since
收拾 shuushu the act of picking up (meaning found in a 1904 dictionary), modern ones seem to translate it by "controlling, putting in order"
出来deki to happen
nai negation of aru

While the litteral translation seems ok (a dangerous thing to say), I have doubts about what is meant exactly by "there is no picking up". My best guess is that it means that white would not gain anything if he played at 62, i. e. that black's move here wasn't necessary.

Translation
"As for black 62, if there is thrust from white now at this point, picking up does not happen." > " :b62:, if white thrusts here now, he does not gain anything."

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm62
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . O O . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . O O . X X O O . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X , . X . X . X . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X X . . . . , . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . O . . . . . . . . . . X . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . X . O . X . . |
$$ | . O O . O . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . X . . . X X O . O . X O . O . . . |
$$ | . . . X . X 1 O X X O . X O . , O . . |
$$ | . . . . O . X O O . O . X . X O . . . |
$$ | . . . O X O X . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


edit. Typo corrected in the Japanese text.


Last edited by Shenoute on Mon Apr 11, 2016 11:20 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Post #16 Posted: Mon Apr 11, 2016 9:14 am 
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Marcel Grünauer wrote:
Shenoute wrote:
* 黒六二は今度白からこの點に差込まては收拾出来ない。

收拾 shuushu the act of picking up (meaning found in a 1904 dictionary), modern ones seem to translate it by "controlling, putting in order"
出来deki to happen
nai negation of aru


This is just a stab in the dark, but http://cjjc.weblio.jp/content/%E6%94%B6%E6%8B%BE says that one of 收拾's meanings, if translated from Chinese, is "(人を)片づける,消す,殺す". So, "tidy up", "clean up", "kill".

And 出来る means "to be able to do". So my guess is that the sentence might mean "As for Black 62, if this time White would play [sashikomi] at this point, Black wouldn't be able to tidy up [i.e., handle it]".

I like your proposal very much. I think I'll refrain from making any hypotheses in the future :) I'll keep looking for examples of 收拾 used in a go related context, maybe that will making its exact meaning clearer.

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 Post subject: Re: (Just enough) Japanese to read classical commentaries
Post #17 Posted: Mon Apr 11, 2016 9:51 am 
Oza

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Quote:
黒六二は今度白からこの點に差込まては收拾出来ない。


There's a major typo here. The verb form is the adversative passive and it means that if Black 'suffers' the sashikomi (a go technical term) by White he cannot cope.

Dekinai has nothing to do with aru. It's the negative of dekiru, which here is the potential of suru.

Also it's shuushuu not shuushu.

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 Post subject: Re: (Just enough) Japanese to read classical commentaries
Post #18 Posted: Mon Apr 11, 2016 11:21 pm 
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Typo corrected in the post.
Thank you for your comments, they are very helpful.

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 Post subject: Re: (Just enough) Japanese to read classical commentaries
Post #19 Posted: Tue Apr 12, 2016 12:49 am 
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*白八九を怠り、黒、と下られると一?の眼形が無くなつて終ふ。

怠り okotaru to neglect/omit, here in the -ri form (conjunctive/continuative/connective)
下られる sagarareru, passive of sagaru to go down
下られるとと to is used to link clauses here
眼形 gankei eyeshape
無くなる nakunaru to get lost/reduced to zero
無くなつて nakunatte, the -te form connects sentences "xyz then abc"
終ふ ofu to end/to die, equivalent to the modern owaru

Translation
"When one neglects :w89: and is go-downed with black ろ, the eyshape ??? is reduced to zero/is lost, then it is over."
"When one neglects :w89: and suffers the descent of black ろ, ..."

I can't read the kanji after 一 with certainty. A promising possibility might be to read it 一団 ichidan "group". 一団の眼形 gives a lot of (in fact, almost only) go related results when googled. Apparently 団 has an older form 團 which would fit the shape of the character in the book rather well.

> "When 89 is neglected and black goes down at ろ (the marked intersection), the eyeshape of the group is lost and it is over."

I wondered if 終ふ could mean here "it (i. e. the group) dies". My thinking is that there might still be some room for white to escape, but even if it lives the attack will be too sever for white to recover (for instance, giving black enough stones in the center area to harass the other white group at the bottom), so I chose the more neutral "it is over". But, well, maybe for players of this level the kill is as good as certain...

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm89
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . O O . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . O O . X X O O . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X , . X . X . X . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O X . . . |
$$ | . . O O . . . . . . . . X . . O X . . |
$$ | . . . X X . . . . , . O X . . O X . . |
$$ | . O . . . . . . . . . . X . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . X . O . . . . . O X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . X O . X O O . X . . |
$$ | . O O . O . . . X O O . X X O . X . . |
$$ | . . X . . . X X X X O . X O O O . . . |
$$ | . . . X . X X O X X O . X O X , O . . |
$$ | . . O . O . X O O O O . X 1 X O . . . |
$$ | . . . O X O X . . . . . . . M . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Last edited by Shenoute on Tue Apr 12, 2016 2:00 am, edited 4 times in total.
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 Post subject: Re: (Just enough) Japanese to read classical commentaries
Post #20 Posted: Tue Apr 12, 2016 1:22 am 
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Yes, when I started this thread I wondered if I should type it as っ but then I decided on simply reproducing the text as printed in 打碁選集.

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