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| The mistakes I make http://lifein19x19.com/viewtopic.php?f=48&t=13101 |
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| Author: | mongus [ Tue Apr 19, 2016 3:11 am ] |
| Post subject: | The mistakes I make |
So I thought I would start a thread to log down some of the mistakes I make as I play. I make a lot of them, and I seem to make the same mistakes over and over. By logging them down and discussing them, hopefully it will help me to understand why they are mistakes and start to stop making them. Most likely these will all be pretty obvious to most people here. I am very much in the completely new and uneducated phase of my Go playing. Hopefully as time goes on my mistakes will become more complex and less obvious! |
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| Author: | mongus [ Tue Apr 19, 2016 3:45 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: The mistakes I make |
Many of the mistakes I make involve playing on diagonals. This one annoyed me. I was Black and played at a, trying to block my opponent from moving to the left. Silly idea. White just played an b, putting me into Atari. I saved this atari, and then White played c, effectively killing my stone at a. Doh! |
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| Author: | EdLee [ Tue Apr 19, 2016 3:47 am ] |
| Post subject: | |
Hi mongus, This is good what you're doing. |
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| Author: | mongus [ Tue Apr 19, 2016 3:59 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: The mistakes I make |
Too many diagonals. This is a terrible place to get into : White can just play at a and I am in double Atari. I find it a very easy shape to get into. White keeps pushing a little to the left and I keep trying to block it, and then suddenly I am in double Atari and largely doomed.. |
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| Author: | mongus [ Tue Apr 19, 2016 4:19 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: The mistakes I make |
Thanks EdLee. Probably my most frequent one, not counting liberties. I am attacking white in the top left corner. I have a choice between placing at a or b. I think placing at a would be better as it would take one point away from white. Bad move. It meant white could place at c and put my stone in Atari - I forgot to count how many liberties that stone had. White can then escape from my grasp. This is actually also a problem of playing too many diagonals. A stone that is only covered on its diagonal is not really that well covered. All its liberties are exposed. |
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| Author: | EdLee [ Tue Apr 19, 2016 4:25 am ] |
| Post subject: | |
mongus wrote: not counting liberties. Hi mongus, yes, this is an underlying theme.mongus wrote: It could be beneficial to study how you got into the above situation in the first place.Do you remember the local sequence ? |
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| Author: | mongus [ Tue Apr 19, 2016 6:26 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: |
EdLee wrote: Do you remember the local sequence ? Unfortunately not. I just pulled that one from my notes, and I didn't write down which game it came from. In future I will note down the game as well. Heres a mistake I've just stopped myself from making. I am white. Black tries to poke through a gap at the left. I am tempted to block at a. But if I did, Black can just atari me at b. The following scenario could ensue : I would be dead and Black has brutally invaded my territory. I'm not actually sure what the best response would be. I played which at least stopped the invasion. |
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| Author: | EdLee [ Tue Apr 19, 2016 6:54 am ] |
| Post subject: | |
mongus wrote: Hi mongus,Your above position depends on the whole board. For example, your original (a) could work here: You have to be aware how you isolate your shape situation. |
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| Author: | EdLee [ Tue Apr 19, 2016 7:02 am ] |
| Post subject: | |
mongus wrote: I'm not actually sure what the best response would be. I played Hi mongus,Again, the best reply depends on the whole board (it could be tenuki). But locally, your jump is good to limit B's push: If B continues, this is one continuation: |
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| Author: | mongus [ Tue Apr 19, 2016 7:10 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: The mistakes I make |
Good point. In this case I had nothing above. |
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| Author: | mongus [ Tue Apr 19, 2016 8:47 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: The mistakes I make |
Here's another one - messing up my Joseki. My corner gets attacked and I follow through a joseki perfectly until I get to this : The Joseki says I should play at a. Instead I panic and play at b. I end up in this mess and my stones are dead : This highlights another error I often make. I am afraid to make jumps to protect my stones. I haven't learned when it is better to protect by spacing stones out than clumping them together. In this case, keeping them together meant they died together. |
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| Author: | EdLee [ Tue Apr 19, 2016 9:58 am ] |
| Post subject: | |
mongus wrote: Hi mongus,This is a good one to study some basic shapes. If you play (b), you make a bad shape here, which you found out in your game. The jump to (a) is better. If we look at an empty triangle in isolation, we can talk about some of its properties. For example, its liberties. Whether it's a bad, neutral, or good shape depends on the particular situation. In your case, the jump is better. |
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| Author: | EdLee [ Tue Apr 19, 2016 10:08 am ] |
| Post subject: | |
mongus wrote: I haven't learned when it is better This is determined by your reading.to (do something) than (do something else). You read each individual situation and you evaluate. |
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| Author: | jeromie [ Tue Apr 19, 2016 10:34 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: The mistakes I make |
mongus, this is a great idea for a study journal. Keep up the good work! |
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| Author: | schawipp [ Tue Apr 19, 2016 11:18 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: The mistakes I make |
mongus wrote: Many of the mistakes I make involve playing on diagonals. This one annoyed me. Losing the stone at a may be annoying, but in the continuation you can force white to capture and ladder the r3 stone in return. Depending on where this happens on the board this can be even good for b (e.g. if this happened in the lower left corner instead, w would be forced to capture a stone in the corner and b gets the full outside strength in return). |
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| Author: | EdLee [ Tue Apr 19, 2016 12:34 pm ] |
| Post subject: | |
Hi mongus, Continuing schawipp's notes -- Depending on the whole board situation, here are some of the options for Black (now, or later): -  (a) atari, then ladder with (b), if the ladder works for B (schawipp);- (c) descend;- (d) atari-turn on top;- (e) atari;- (f) turn;- etc. 
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| Author: | mongus [ Tue Apr 19, 2016 1:46 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: The mistakes I make |
Well that is very interesting. I managed to find the game where this happened. The interesting part is move 28. The ladder would have worked very well. |
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| Author: | DrStraw [ Tue Apr 19, 2016 2:08 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: The mistakes I make |
mongus wrote: Well that is very interesting. I managed to find the game where this happened. The interesting part is move 28. The ladder would have worked very well. The biggest problem in this game is the contact play of :B23:. Contact moves are usually played by the person trying to live, not by the person trying to kill. Had this stone been one point to the left there would not have been enough room for white to live. There wasn't enough room anyway, but by playing in contact you gave yourself more chance to me the type of mistake you are discussing. |
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| Author: | EdLee [ Tue Apr 19, 2016 7:20 pm ] |
| Post subject: | |
mongus wrote: The interesting part is move 28. Hi mongus,This is good what you're doing: review your own games, looking for mistakes and better moves. Very good.  As DrStraw said, if you play this at E3, W is dead.As homework, if you have time, prove to your satisfaction this is true. You'll have to study and play with many variations, with W trying to make life there, after at E3.You must try to make the 'best' moves for W trying to live, and B's 'best' counter. Have fun. |
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| Author: | schawipp [ Wed Apr 20, 2016 12:03 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: The mistakes I make |
The descent move (c) suggested by EdLee has another meaning than just sacrifying a few more stones  With this technique you can squeeze out a white eye; depending on the exact circumstances in the surroundings, this could even kill the entire white group. In your game example the descent seems at least making things complicated for w (look at move  ): |
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