Why did you give up at move 192?

_________________
The Adkins Principle:
At some point, doesn't thinking have to go on?
— Winona Adkins

Visualize whirled peas.

Everything with love. Stay safe.

I think it was largely psychological, I felt ashamed of myself for having lost the Ko that should not have been fought. I felt outplayed and figured if I played standard moves I would just lose. So in desperation I tried a clever move instead.

Annoyingly this was a correspondence game, so I had plenty of time to thing thinks through calmly..

Suffered a devastating defeat today.

I thought I had managed to capture a large group and it looked like I was set for an easy win. Whilst I was sitting there dreaming of reaching shodan my opponent turned the tables and with a couple of trick moves managed to reconnect his large group. He then tore my position to pieces to go on and claim a huge victory over me.

Looking at my position I think the problem was I allowed a number of my groups near to each other to get down to two liberties each. By threatening to capture one of the groups I had to decide which group to lose. I chose poorly.

The devastating move is move 218.

Hi mongus,

Can you identify any weak groups or weak spots on the whole board ?
Very strange. See above.

Slow. H5.

Slow. H6.

Strange shape.

Floater. ( Doesn't really do anything. )

What's the status of this corner ?
Same question as above.
Locally, M2.
Your note here: a good lesson.
Your question here: it's a good lesson --
If you're sure you're very ahead, just fix all your bad aji --
empty triangle could be suspect right away...

Hi,

Many thanks for the feedback. Incredibly useful as ever.



At this stage of the game there are bound to be weaknesses all over the board? The way I have been playing the start is to consider it as more of a land grab - trying to get influence over as many spots around the edge of the board. Then it is time to probe and push at weaknesses / build up strength.

I have recently been playing a teaching game where it has been pointed out that I need to consider weak and strong groups a lot more. Is it generally considered better form to strengthen the groups around the corners before moving for more territory along the sides?




Interesting. I couldn't see T2 at the time, and I did spend a lot of time looking.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code

[go]$$W
$$ . . . . . . |
$$ . . O O O . |
$$ . O X X X 2 |
$$ . O 3 4 5 1 |
$$ . . . . X . |
$$ ------------+[/go]

I need to work on my life and death a lot harder.



A very good point. I also need to learn to recognise when aji is bad. I also have a bad attitude in that I tend strive for total annihilation as opposed to just winning the game. I need to correct this.

Hi mongus,

You're welcome.No, not at all. Hmm, I see...It's not easy to evaluate these weaknesses; thus , and the questions at .Why ?Not necessarily a bad thing, to try to kill everything:
you can learn a lot from it.
For some students (who may be too "shy" with their slow, soft moves),
this could be a right prescription;
for others who are "too" aggressive, overplay too much, they would need another approach.

It is very possible that I misunderstand strength and weakness in that case.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code

[go]$$B
$$ | . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . 1 . . .
$$ | . . 2 . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . .
$$ +--------------[/go]

After the corner is not settled and thus easily invade-able, does this not make it weak?

How would it be less weak than Whites position here?

Click Here To Show Diagram Code

[go]$$B
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . .
$$ | . . . . . Q . . Q . X .
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . .
$$ +------------------------[/go]

Good question: No, is not weak. Otherwise no pros would open at 4-4.
Let's look at one joseki:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code

[go]$$Bm5
$$ ------------------|
$$ . . . . . . . . . |
$$ . . . 4 2 . . . . |
$$ . . 5 3 1 O O 8 . |
$$ . . . . . X X 6 . |
$$ . . . . . . . 7 . |
$$ . . . . . . 9 . . |
$$ . . . . . . . . . |[/go]

If W decides to play this joseki on an open 19x19 board,
starting at and ending with ,
our current understanding is W jumping into 3-3 at is too early,
and the result is good for Black.

Understanding of strength and weakness is highly non-trivial;
indeed, it's an endless growth curve.

Good point, not necessary.



I am learning that it is very hard to kill things and very easy to leave weaknesses behind!

The meaning of is not to settle:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code

[go]$$B
$$ ------------- |
$$ . . . . . . . |
$$ . . . . . . . |
$$ . . . . . . . |
$$ . . . 1 . . . |
$$ . . . . . . . |
$$ . . . . . . . |[/go]

Even if W spends three moves here, B is still OK.
Example: B can still get out with :

Click Here To Show Diagram Code

[go]$$B , tenuki
$$ ------------- |
$$ . . . . . . . |
$$ . . . . . . . |
$$ . 2 . . 6 . . |
$$ . . . 1 . . . |
$$ . . 7 . . . . |
$$ . . . . 4 . . |
$$ . . . . . . . |[/go]

Example: B can live in the corner ( left as an exercise for you ):

Click Here To Show Diagram Code

[go]$$B , tenuki
$$ ------------- |
$$ . . . . . . . |
$$ . . . . . . . |
$$ . 2 . . 7 . . |
$$ . . . 1 . . . |
$$ . . 6 . . . . |
$$ . . . . 4 . . |
$$ . . . . . . . |[/go]

If you can tenuki twice and still get an OK result locally, you're not weak.

If W tenukis twice from this, W will suffer a big loss.
Example:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code

[go]$$B , tenuki
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . X . . 1 . . 5 . .
$$ | . . . . . O 3 . O . X .
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . .
$$ +------------------------[/go]

Example:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code

[go]$$B , tenuki
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . X . 3 . . . , . .
$$ | . . . . 1 O 5 . O . X .
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . .
$$ +------------------------[/go]

( Likely there are even better local moves than these 's and 's. )

There was an 8d on KGS a few years back called takemeba who had an interesting style of play, a very flexible aji-ful centre style. One of his favourite openings was to say the 4-4 point was weak following a 3-3 invasion when he had the surrounding star points. The games might go something like this:

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[go]$$B
$$ +---------------------------------------+
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . 7 . . . . . 0 . . . . . 1 . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . 8 . . . . . 2 . . . . . 4 . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . 3 . . . . . 6 . . . . . 5 . . . |
$$ | . . . . . 9 . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ +---------------------------------------+[/go]

Maybe the hane at 15 is an overplay (just extend is safe but could be slack) and cut at 16 the punishment, or is 16 cut an overplay? Anyway black would sometimes die after this. It was fun to watch.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code

[go]$$Bm11
$$ +---------------------------------------+
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 0 . . 8 . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 5 4 2 7 . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . O . . . . 6 X 3 9 . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . 1 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . O . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . O . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ +---------------------------------------+[/go]

Anyway, the point I am making is that 4-4 is not weak on its own, but with some support on the outside (and those hoshis of takemeba aren't that much support really) the 3-3 can indeed be an attacking invasion, taking the base in the corner. So when your opponent has both side extensions from your 4-4 it becomes sad (I won't say weak yet). So as a basic rule of thumb it's good to add a move to it if this happens.

So, I see that there are two general approaches that one can consider.

1. Take territory then settle groups.
2. Settle groups then expand into territory.

Or, probably even better settle groups whilst taking territory by attacking your opponents groups. This is what I think a lot of experts try to convey. At my level of understanding it is really hard to know how best to do this.

One other question,




Often when I see my opponent is creating a fairly large moyo, I will just place a stone near the widest gap. I then have the choice of moving into the moyo to reduce it and moving out to connect to my groups. That is what I was attempting to do with this move. I then played M7 to move into the box and was later able to connect it again.

Had I not played this move Black would have been able to create a large solid territory through the centre of the board.

Was there a better move I could have made that would have achieved this?

This time I think it worked, but often it doesn't. It is a problem I often get into. I see a large territory forming and to stop it I place a "floater" to try to prevent it. A fight ensues which I am starting from a disadvantaged position. I often lose and my "floater" dies.

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[go]$$W Moves 29 to 29
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . O . . . . . . . O . . X . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . O . . . . X X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . X , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . 1 . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . X . . . . X . O . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . O X . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . O X . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . O X . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . O . . O . X . . X . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

I agree with Ed that this is a "floater" and it does not do what you aim for, i.e.

"Often when I see my opponent is creating a fairly large moyo, I will just place a stone near the widest gap. I then have the choice of moving into the moyo to reduce it and moving out to connect to my groups."

First of all, Black's moyo isn't fairly large, it's fairly small.
Secondly, after your move, Black can perfectly close it and your move is floating:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code

[go]$$W Close
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . O . . . . . . . O . . X . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . O . . . . X X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . X , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . 1 . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . X . . 2 . X . O . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . O X . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . O X . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . O X . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . O . . O . X . . X . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

What you really want to do in this situation, is play "on the border of two moyos", i.e. enlarge your corner while reducing his relatively small potential area.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code

[go]$$W var 1
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . O . . . . . . . O . . X . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . O . . . . X X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . X , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . X . . . . X . O . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . O X . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . O X . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . O X . . . 2 . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . O . . O . X . . X 1 . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . 4 3 5 . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

For example, this way White gets a corner of 15 points plus an extension to the left, while Black's central territory is also about 15 points.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code

[go]$$W var 2
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . O . . . . . . . O . . X . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . O . . . . X X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . X , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . X . . . . X . O . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . O X . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . O X . . 4 3 . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . O X . . 2 1 . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . O . . O . X . . X 5 . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . 6 7 . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Or this way (assuming Black would be so docile) the combined expansion & reduction is even bigger.

In any case the border of these moyos is the key area, not the reduction from the top, which results in a floating stone, as Ed pointed out.

Whilst I agree the corner is bigger, given the thinness of the 2-space jump I would rather just iron pillar than kick, to avoid the bad aji at a above. Also black might not play 4. Though is a still a tesuji later?

Click Here To Show Diagram Code

[go]$$W solid
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . O . . . . . . . O . . X . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . O . . . . X X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . X , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . X . . . . X . O . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . O X . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . O X . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . O X . . . . . O a . . |
$$ | . . . . . O . . O . X . . X . 1 . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Or attach and bulge:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code

[go]$$W
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . O . . . . . . . O . . X . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . O . . . . X X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . X , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . X . . . . X . O . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . O X . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . O X . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . O X . . 2 1 . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . O . . O . X . . X 3 . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

But maybe black can wedge? If white ataris from the outside taking the corner in exchange for letting white into that centre area doesn't make me sad as black: it wasn't so big anyway. Corners then sides then centre and all that. White still has problems around a.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code

[go]$$W
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . O . . . . . . . O . . X . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . O . . . . X X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . X , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . a . . |
$$ | . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . X . . . . X . O . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . O X . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . O X . . . 5 3 . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . O X . . . 1 2 O 7 . . |
$$ | . . . . . O . . O . X . . X 4 6 8 . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

But if white ataris from below and gives black a ponnuki for a big solid corner I actually feel sad as black, the outside is inefficent and the corner is big. But maybe black has a stronger resistance.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code

[go]$$W
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . O . . . . . . . O . . X . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . O . . . . X X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . X , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . a . . |
$$ | . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . X . . . . X . O . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . O X . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . O X . . . 8 4 7 . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . O X . . 6 1 2 O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . O . . O . X . . X 3 5 . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

So white would need to read and judge quite a few lines before playing this attach, whilst the simple iron pillar is clear and good.

A good thing to think about when considering whether/when/where to reduce a moyo/area is to consider what happens if you don't and you let you opponent play there first (in fact this is a good thought process in many situations). If he has no good move to close the area and make you sad then you don't need to reduce it. Or if you play some big move, he closes it, and you play some other big move are you happy or sad? (tedomari is important here). In this game example there is no black move to close that area I worry about, so reducing it is not urgent. Was there some black move you were afraid of? As an example of a moyo which is urgent to reduce see below: if white plays on the left black 2 closes off a rather large area.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code

[go]$$W
$$ +---------------------------------------+
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . X . O . O O . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . X X X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . 1 . . . . . , 2 . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . X X X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . X . O . O O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ +---------------------------------------+[/go]

So reducing on the border line now is a good idea:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code

[go]$$W
$$ +---------------------------------------+
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . X . O . O O . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . X X X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , 1 . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . X X X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . X . O . O O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ +---------------------------------------+[/go]

Here is a better approach, courtesy of the great Takagawa:

1. Make territory by settling groups.
2. Settle groups by fighting.



What Takagawa actually said was more like this:

Go is a game of territory, but territory is very difficult to make. You settle territory through skirmishes.



That's the spirit!



When I was a rank beginner I started out trying to stake out secure territory, but I soon learned that that did not work. Just letting the territory take care of itself worked much better.

_________________
The Adkins Principle:
At some point, doesn't thinking have to go on?
— Winona Adkins

Visualize whirled peas.

Everything with love. Stay safe.

What I would be worried about, if i just played along the bottom right of Blacks Moyo is that by pushing up from the bottom right it would just push Black up towards the centre. It would be helping my opponent to build a large wall facing the centre of the board :

Something like the following (slightly exaggerated) scenario could ensue :

Click Here To Show Diagram Code

[go]$$W
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . O . . . . . . . O . . X . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . O . . . . X X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . X O . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . O . . |
$$ | . . X , . . . . . , M . . X O , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . M M M . X O . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . O . . . . . . . X Q . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . X . . . . X . O . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . O X . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . O X . . X O . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . O X . . X O . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . O . . O . X . . X O . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Black would have a very strong influence in taking the rest of the board.

At least by playing this floater I am in a sense pushing black down and suppressing his influence towards the centre.

I do note however that in the actual game, I did play the floater and Black still gained a solid gain over the centre - so it is likely that my thinking here is flawed. There must be a point where I would stop building up my bottom left and start focusing on the centre.

Any ideas at what point this would be? My guess would be as soon as I see Black extending out from his Moyo (the marked stone in the diagram). Would this be a good idea?

I have no idea, other than the floater move I played how to get some influence over the marked points in the centre. If I made a similar approach, but from the left Black would just build a similar wall.

Now I would also get a wall, but since Blacks Moyo here is right in the middle of the board he would get influence over a larger portion of the board than my wall would get.

On one level, this diagram is a bit unrealistic, as one side or the other should start pushing out or tenuki. Despite that, however, are you sure white's position is bad? White can easily throw a stone in the area of the marked points and black's wall looks like it's hard to get points out of. White's other groups are fairly strong, and you could also consider a jump to F15 to build the top and remove invasion aji. Finally, white really has quite a lot of points on the right side and has sente.

The other thing to consider is that if you look at your bottom left group, it's fairly alive but not that big. Making it bigger isn't going to bring a lot more territory with it, so I'd leave it be. At most, a slide into the corner might be considered sente (D2).

True, it just represents my fears rather than reality.



Would this throw in not also be considered a floater? (I'm trying to understand what makes a floater a floater.)