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The mistakes I make
http://lifein19x19.com/viewtopic.php?f=48&t=13101		 Page 9 of 10
Author:  mongus [ Mon Oct 24, 2016 6:22 am ]
Post subject:  Re: The mistakes I make
Although here, I think White is still dead :

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$W
$$ ------------------+
$$ . . X . . . X O . |
$$ . X . X . X 3 O 4 |
$$ . . . X X O O . 2 |
$$ . . . . X X X O . |
$$ . . . . . X O O 1 |
$$ . . . . . X X X . |
$$ . . . . . . . . . |[/go]
Author:  ez4u [ Mon Oct 24, 2016 6:32 am ]
Post subject:  Re: The mistakes I make
mongus wrote:
Although here, I think White is still dead :

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$W
$$ ------------------+
$$ . . X . . . X O . |
$$ . X . X . X 3 O 4 |
$$ . . . X X O O . 2 |
$$ . . . . X X X O . |
$$ . . . . . X O O 1 |
$$ . . . . . X X X . |
$$ . . . . . . . . . |[/go]

True if White answers 2 with 3, however, ...
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wc
$$ ------------------+
$$ . . X . . . X O . |
$$ . X . X . X . O 3 |
$$ . . . X X O O . 2 |
$$ . . . . X X X O . |
$$ . . . . . X O O 1 |
$$ . . . . . X X X . |
$$ . . . . . . . . . |[/go]
Author:  dfan [ Mon Oct 24, 2016 6:34 am ]
Post subject:  Re: The mistakes I make
mongus wrote:
Although here, I think White is still dead :

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$W
$$ ------------------+
$$ . . X . . . X O . |
$$ . X . X . X 3 O 4 |
$$ . . . X X O O . 2 |
$$ . . . . X X X O . |
$$ . . . . . X O O 1 |
$$ . . . . . X X X . |
$$ . . . . . . . . . |[/go]

Yup. Does White have yet another alternative for move 3?
Author:  mongus [ Mon Oct 24, 2016 7:22 am ]
Post subject:  Re: The mistakes I make
So

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wc
$$ ------------------+
$$ . . X . . . X O . |
$$ . X . X . X 4 O 3 |
$$ . . . X X O O 5 2 |
$$ . . . . X X X O . |
$$ . . . . . X O O 1 |
$$ . . . . . X X X . |
$$ . . . . . . . . . |[/go]


or

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wc
$$ ------------------+
$$ . . X . . . X O . |
$$ . X . X . X . O 3 |
$$ . . . X X O O 4 2 |
$$ . . . . X X X O 5 |
$$ . . . . . X O O 1 |
$$ . . . . . X X X . |
$$ . . . . . . . . . |[/go]


then :

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wc
$$ ------------------+
$$ . . X . . . X O . |
$$ . X . X . X 7 O 3 |
$$ . . . X X O O 6 . |
$$ . . . . X X X O 5 |
$$ . . . . . X O O 1 |
$$ . . . . . X X X . |
$$ . . . . . . . . . |[/go]


Luckily :b6: can be ignored duo to the extra liberty at T14. If that was filled in :


Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wc
$$ ------------------+
$$ . . X . . . X O . |
$$ . X . X . X 8 O 3 |
$$ . . . X X O O 6 7 |
$$ . . . . X X X O 5 |
$$ . . . . . X O O 1 |
$$ . . . . . X X X X |
$$ . . . . . . . . . |[/go]


White would be dead.
Author:  dfan [ Mon Oct 24, 2016 7:39 am ]
Post subject:  Re: The mistakes I make
Nicely done! I wouldn't say " :b6: can be ignored" (to me that implies White could tenuki) but instead say " :b6: doesn't work". You are absolutely correct about the extra liberty being necessary, and the :b6: trick to make a false eye comes up all the time in tsumego (and occasionally in actual games as well :)).
Author:  mongus [ Mon Oct 24, 2016 8:54 am ]
Post subject:  Re: The mistakes I make
dfan wrote:
Nicely done! I wouldn't say " :b6: can be ignored" (to me that implies White could tenuki) but instead say " :b6: doesn't work". You are absolutely correct about the extra liberty being necessary, and the :b6: trick to make a false eye comes up all the time in tsumego (and occasionally in actual games as well :)).


Awesome! I really need to do more tsumego.
Author:  mongus [ Tue Nov 01, 2016 2:00 am ]
Post subject:  Re: The mistakes I make
Finally made it to a local Go club and played some games on a real board. It was a great experience. Very different from online. I could actually see my opponents and hear their chuckles and groans when I made my moves. I will hopefully be able to go regularly from now.

I won 2 and lost 1 game. Here is the game I lost. I was black. Whilst running away to save my group on the left, I forgot about my group on the right and killed it. Doh!

Attachment:
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Author:  mongus [ Tue Nov 01, 2016 4:49 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: The mistakes I make
I really struggle playing on IGS against Japanese players. Their style of Go is crazy. They make moves that to me seem crazy, yet they destroy me every time. Is it because Go is much more a part of the culture in Japan that even beginners have a much better Go sense?

Here is tonights game. I try to make sense of some of it...
Author:  EdLee [ Wed Nov 02, 2016 12:54 am ]
Post subject: 
Quote:
They make moves that to me seem crazy, yet they destroy me every time.
Both B and W have a lot of problems with the basics.
Author:  mongus [ Wed Nov 02, 2016 7:05 am ]
Post subject:  Re: The mistakes I make
Many thanks for your feedback.

I did not play well at all. I think it really throws me when my opponent plays unconventional moves. So I think I really need to learn more about making better shapes. I will focus on shapes for a while.
Author:  Bill Spight [ Wed Nov 02, 2016 9:48 am ]
Post subject:  Re: The mistakes I make
mongus wrote:
I think it really throws me when my opponent plays unconventional moves.


Don't worry about whether moves are conventional or not. Yours or your opponent's. As Ed says, focus on the basics. They are the building blocks of your game. Then you will be able to see many of your opponent's mistakes. Which are unconventional, BTW. ;)
Author:  mongus [ Fri Sep 29, 2017 2:04 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: The mistakes I make
It's been a while since I have posted. Life kinda got in the way. My Go has been suffering so I think it is time to start studying seriously again. Especially now I am starting to get close to SDK territory the opposition is getting really tough.

Here is a recent game. I made a ton of mistakes, which my opponent thoroughly punished.

I think my biggest weakness is leaving cut points unprotected.

Also, I have just started working though Bruce Wilcox's Contact program. It is starting to show me that I am not engaged in fighting properly. I leave weak group around the board. I need to focus more on staying with the group until it has sufficient liberties to survive on it's own and then tenuki.
Author:  daal [ Fri Sep 29, 2017 3:29 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: The mistakes I make
mongus wrote:
I think my biggest weakness is leaving cut points unprotected.
Good observation! I agree, though :w58: does protect the cut ;-)
Author:  EdLee [ Fri Sep 29, 2017 4:59 pm ]
Post subject: 
Quote:
Conact [...] is starting to show me that I am not [...]
:tmbup: :study:
Author:  mongus [ Tue Oct 03, 2017 1:44 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: The mistakes I make
A crushing defeat. I played shamefully, leaving far too many weaknesses behind..
Author:  EdLee [ Tue Oct 03, 2017 3:18 pm ]
Post subject: 
Hi mongus,

What was the time control ? Blitz ?

:w14:
Quote:
I think attacking this corner was premature when I had weakish groups in all three other corners.
Evaluation issues:
- W's top two corner groups are not weak. At all.
( Since you consider them "weakish", it may be constructive
to have a discussion why you think so; or maybe not... :study: )
- W's lower left 2 stones: more difficult to evaluate.
- The game move :w14: is not an attack.
( Seems a common misconception, for some.
Can be difficult to distinguish from an approach, which is :w14: . )
- The D6 variation is a correct direction and idea, I feel;
I'd consider C5 block-attach.
:w16: Still C5, I feel.

:w24: Checking your own weaknesses is good,
but do you also spot B's weaknesses ?
- What about the D7 turn ?
- If B pushes at E5, and W blocks F5, how are the 2 ladders ?
Both good for W.
But B has another follow-up: G5 clamp.
:w26: Locally, R10 a possibility ( depends on reading ).

:w28: Strange...
Study S10 or P9 instead, if :b29: replies at R10.
( Important basics; basic shapes, basic contact fights. )

:b29: Study the variations if B attaches at R10 instead.
( Important basics; basic shapes, basic contact fights. )
( See above, :w28: ).

:w30: R10.

:w40: Good.

:w42:
Quote:
Leaving a pretty weak point behind there.
That's not the problem with :w42: . ( No big problem locally. )

:b43: Variation. Did you consider other replies to the :b43: peep variation ?
( In your second :b45: variation ( :b45: at F15 ),
the reply :w46: , connect at E14, is wrong. )

:w44:
Quote:
This stone [Q10] is very weak..
The Q10 stone is light, not an important stone.
The D7 turn is very big.

:w46: Strange. Why not hane at C8 ?
( Important basic shape. )
The C8 hane is huge not only for points,
but because it can affect B's D13 group.

:w52: Why. Did you do a rough count here, and then decide how to proceed ?

:w60: Same note as :w52: . What's your evaluation of the board here,
and what was your plan ?

:w66: Hmm. :-? Did you consider any other candidates here ?
( Important basic shape. )
Study D9, the bamboo joint, here.
What's the meaning of D9 here ?
:w78:
Quote:
Marked group has 2 liberties.
Liberties awareness is good, but what was your plan here ?
After you bumped your head into B with ( :w78: - :b79: ),
your M9 string had 3 liberties left ( not 2 ).

...up to :w88: If you just let B live so easily, this is bad.
( Re: :w52: , :w60: whole-board context. )

:w92: Is this sente or gote ?

:white: 114 ( Important basic shape. )

:white: 122 Why. :-| Study the whole board here: where to play ?
If F16, and no big W groups die from here... you count.
Author:  EdLee [ Wed Oct 04, 2017 2:20 am ]
Post subject: 
Hi mongus,
mongus wrote:
leaving far too many weaknesses behind..
While this may be true of your games in general,
it's not the main reason you lost this particular game.
Please see above.

Recurring issues, from this game:
- basic shapes ( not easy to fix );
- basic reading ( not easy to fix );
- whole-board evaluation ( for this particular game, re: :w52:, :w60: . )
( in general, not easy. )
Author:  mongus [ Wed Oct 04, 2017 5:33 am ]
Post subject:  Re: The mistakes I make
Wow, many thanks for your comprehensive review! I will go over it later this evening when I have some free time.
Author:  mongus [ Wed Oct 04, 2017 12:30 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Re:
EdLee wrote:
Hi mongus,

What was the time control ? Blitz ?



Oh dear. :oops: No this is on DGS. I think it was 10 days. I had plenty of time to think over my moves. (but in my defense I play a lot whilst at work when technically I am supposed to be concentrating on other matters...)

:w14:
EdLee wrote:
W's top two corner groups are not weak. At all.
( Since you consider them "weakish", it may be constructive
to have a discussion why you think so; or maybe not... :study: )



True. The top left is vulnerable at 3-3, but you are right they are not at risk of dying. The bottom left is definitely the weakest group. C5 does look like a good move I hadn't realised was even possible. I think one problem I have in the beginning is I try to get stones everywhere and feel permanently vulnerable..

EdLee wrote:
- If B pushes at E5, and W blocks F5, how are the 2 ladders ?
Both good for W.
But B has another follow-up: G5 clamp.


I think I read out the ladders which is why I felt it was safe to leave the gap there. In the game my opponent didn't push through the gap, he poked from the other side. Since I had so many of these holes he was able to use it to build up a significant central group.

The clamp is interesting. Hadn't occurred to me, but looks quite devastating!

EdLee wrote:
:w28: Strange...
Study S10 or P9 instead, if :b29: replies at R10.
( Important basics; basic shapes, basic contact fights. )


Is this strange because it is a knights jump and hence prone to being cut? I was trying to get this group to safety quickly. If I lose the Q10 stone, I can do it but get a bit of a wall around P9-P6 or so.. That was my hope anyway..

EdLee wrote:
:b29: Study the variations if B attaches at R10 instead.
( Important basics; basic shapes, basic contact fights. )
( See above, :w28: ).

:w30: R10.


I get the impression you feel it would be important to keep the two black groups separated. The way I saw it, both were able to live easily enough, so it wasn't worth wasting moves to keep them separate. Playing with these ideas I can see that by doing, even though Black can save both groups, he has to play more moves in order to save them - allowing me to build up stronger walls on the outside. Very interesting concept to take on board!

Quote:
:b43: Variation. Did you consider other replies to the :b43: peep variation ?
( In your second :b45: variation ( :b45: at F15 ),
the reply :w46: , connect at E14, is wrong. )


Hmm.. I don't see how I could kill those stones by playing at G15 which would allow black to cut at E14 which would be pretty devastating for me?

Quote:
:w46: Strange. Why not hane at C8 ?
( Important basic shape. )
The C8 hane is huge not only for points,
but because it can affect B's D13 group.


I was aiming more for outside influence so was trying to cap the top left black group as well as build up my moyo at the bottom. My ensuing move at P4 is confusing and seems to contradict my goal here. I have no idea why I played that. The hane at C8 felt a bit too aggressive for me. Perhaps that is another of my failings. I have been watching a lot of Dwyrins basics series where he encourages playing basics without killing any groups. I think I may be taking this message it bit too closely to heart.

Quote:
:w52: Why. Did you do a rough count here, and then decide how to proceed ?


Here I was trying to keep the two black groups separate. I could see the four black stones at the top were vulnerable and I wanted to keep them as such..

Quote:
:w60: Same note as :w52: . What's your evaluation of the board here,
and what was your plan ?


At this point I thought the game was mine. I thought the centre of the board was all white. 100 points to me. Black had a about 45 points on the left and 30 points on the right. I felt the top was probably mine for the taking too. My plan was to keep this.

Quote:
:w66: Hmm. :-? Did you consider any other candidates here ?
( Important basic shape. )
Study D9, the bamboo joint, here.
What's the meaning of D9 here ?



So D9 would avoid an empty triangle and would threaten a move at C8. I had not considered it...

Quote:
:w78:
Liberties awareness is good, but what was your plan here ?
After you bumped your head into B with ( :w78: - :b79: ),
your M9 string had 3 liberties left ( not 2 ).


At this point I started to realise that black actually had quite a good chance of surviving in the middle. I was now purely focused on reducing his eye space and forgot about protecting my groups.

Quote:
...up to :w88: If you just let B live so easily, this is bad.
( Re: :w52: , :w60: whole-board context. )


Yes it is. I should have played more aggressively.

Quote:
:w92: Is this sente or gote ?


Yes, gote. Black was alive by now.

Quote:
:white: 114 ( Important basic shape. )

Was this a good shape or a bad shape?

Quote:
:white: 122 Why. :-| Study the whole board here: where to play ?
If F16, and no big W groups die from here... you count.


Yes I completely failed to see the threat at F13. That cost me the game. KGS estimates that if I had played that and not messed up again I would have won by 62 points...
Author:  Bill Spight [ Wed Oct 04, 2017 2:35 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: The mistakes I make
A few comments. :)
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