It is currently Fri Nov 17, 2017 11:01 pm

All times are UTC - 8 hours [ DST ]




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 171 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2, 3, 4, 5 ... 9  Next
Author Message
Offline
 Post subject: Progress in Black and White
Post #1 Posted: Wed Jun 08, 2016 2:57 pm 
Lives with ko

Posts: 147
Liked others: 6
Was liked: 14
Rank: SDK
Hi all,

I'm a 25 year old who got trapped and consumed by this game to an almost unhealthy (some say) level ever since I started playing it just after christmas 2015 - so now just a bit more than 6 months later I find that I've played 153 games in total (including a dozen that were either 9x9 or 13x13) and still just or even more obsessed. Hence this journal.

Here I intend to document the games I play and thus force myself to reflect over them - win or loss - in order to improve. Also I'm doing it to structure my studying which has been a bit haphazard of late.

My goal is simply to improve - which is what I say but I'm no less rank-fixated than anyone so yeh, shodan, that's the goal to start anyway. The 2nd goal following the first would be to take white against my friend (whom I have an even record against playing with 9 stones handicap). So yeh, progress is required.

Any suggestions for me to as to what to study, or comments on the games I post are of course incredibly welcome.

Gamewise - I try to play one game a day on KGS in order to uncover my rank there since I've recently been playing several places (Some OGS, Tygem and the local club) and haven't achieved a steady rank. However I've also been doing a lot of "off the board" studying.

Go Problems - I'm currently working my way through Cho Chikun's Elementary Life & Death - and I'm at like 420 / 900 as of now.

Pro games - I also frequently play through pro games, which even if it might not improve my skills that much is something I find enjoyable. Currently I'm memorising the Gu Li / Lee Sedol jubango (or memorising memorising, at least the 100 or so first moves or so).

Books - I've read Attack & Defence and Opening Theory Made Easy and Lessons in the Fundamentals of Go these last two months and I intend to go over each of them again now soon. I'm also looking at purchasing a decent set of books that will last me for a while (the holidays are coming up and what better way to spend them right?). I'll be asking for advice on this I think since I can't for the life of me decide heh.

===

So to immortalise the beginning of this journal I begin with me showing how to lose a won game. I've gone over the game but not added many comments since I'm doing this a wee bit late in the evening.

http://eidogo.com/#yyJQUeFZ:0,0 - Question, how do I get a commented SGF from eidogo here? Or do I have to comment in KGS and link directly to the KGS game archive?

Here is the uncommented SGF:



Attachments:
File comment: Game record
yyJQUeFZ.sgf [5.12 KiB]
Downloaded 56 times
Top
 Profile  
 
Offline
 Post subject: Re: Progress in Black and White
Post #2 Posted: Wed Jun 08, 2016 3:46 pm 
Lives in sente
User avatar

Posts: 900
Location: Ghent, Belgium
Liked others: 105
Was liked: 353
Rank: Bel 2d KGS 1d TG 4d
KGS: Artevelde
Tygem: Knotwilg
Highlight of the game: the interrupted chase on White's bottom right group.

Between 53 and 141 Black gets numerous chances to split White's forces or outright kill the big group.

This is the result of very fine early middle game, where you successfully exploit White's overplay there and lean against his bottom. For some time, this important battlefield is left.

In the close combat later, a few reading mistakes spoil the game, which indeed would otherwise have been a convincing win.

Full review:


Top
 Profile  
 
Offline
 Post subject: Re: Progress in Black and White
Post #3 Posted: Wed Jun 08, 2016 10:59 pm 
Lives with ko

Posts: 147
Liked others: 6
Was liked: 14
Rank: SDK
Thanks a lot for your review and the variations you showed. I'm happy that the sequence I initiated against his right invasion was good even if it ended badly due to reading mistakes on my part - but I wonder on the right hand side after he covers my pincer stone if I should give them up and play R8 instead? Or is my shoulder hit better for building the lower right?

Overall I know I do have a problem with winning *won* games (which is to say they weren't really won of course) - either if I feel sufficiently ahead I don't carry through and start playing without thinking deeply enough, typically with the bad attitude that my opponent should *just resign*. Also I'm way to fond of *clever* things when I should just simplify and maintain my lead.

On another note - is there any way to change the beeping sound on KGS during byoyomi, and the default setup of 20s instead of 30s byoyomi? I've become used to Tygem which I find a lot less stressful with the verbal countdown and the timer on the cursor - it made me play a bit panicked near the end there and I didn't realise I had several byoyomi periods remaining so I could have given it more thought.

Top
 Profile  
 
Offline
 Post subject: Re: Progress in Black and White
Post #4 Posted: Sat Jun 11, 2016 11:36 am 
Lives with ko

Posts: 147
Liked others: 6
Was liked: 14
Rank: SDK
So I post and then I of course don't get to play for the next two days, and I also only managed to do 20 tsumego during them. Oh well.

Today I made up for my missed games and played three games - and all of them were bad... I'll not post the first two, which was one win by (very) premature resignation and one loss through self-atari. The third, while I won does exemplify much that went wrong the lost game as well.



To start, I'm very disappointed with my play - it's plagued with the type of notable misreads and bad judgement that I thought I'd left behind. I'm seeing that this is a trend in my play whenever my opponents play what can you say - unorthodox, or unreasonable (which is what I actually think during the game, which is not a good mindset)?

In this game I feel my opponent is doing wierd things that shouldn't work and instead of staying calm and collected I start messing up and drag myself down with the same style of "unreasonableness".

Comments (not comprehensive) for the game:

Move 7 - Upper left corner, was my choice of joseki bad direction given his shimari? Should I immediately have jumped to C10?

Move 23 - This is a mistake I think, and should have been P6. I realised too late that my loose net idea wouldn't work since he can break out.

Move 33 - Slow? Should I hane and take 5th line if he pushes me? Didn't want to hane because I felt it would kill the aji in my cutting stones. Maybe extend to R12? EDIT: I realise I just let his dragon go without harrassing it and taking my profit. The groups on both sides of my cutting stones are weak so they are stronger than they appear. I guess I should have continued poking at him instead of the tenuki and thus taken far more profit.

Move 44-67 - This sequence exemplifies what I mean by unreasonableness as well as misreads and bad judgement. I think I could have got a much better result here than I ended up with.

Move 69 - Misread, here, I lack the liberties to capture his group.

Move 75 - Just wanted to make myself alive here, not sure I went about this in a good way.

Move 115 - Bad timing. I should have followed up my shoulder hit first.

Move 121-141 - Ends with a bad misread here.

Move 150 - The sequence that follows lets me off the hook easy with my 1-eyed group. I was confident of my ability to make life here (I find living is much easier against those around my level than killing is). That he also lets me wreck is territory is a nice bonus.

Move 161 - to the end - endgame in which I get a good deal of points from him even if looking over it I miss a few big sente moves.

I don't know why he resigned unless he had counted it out (I knew I was ahead as it stood), but maybe he thought his group was captured (it wasn't).



So yeh, I'm not happy with my play and I know that I'm capable of playing better games - I'm going to be doing more tesuji as I go forward, I'm currently only doing life and death problems (Cho Chikun's) - and I do them in what I've read is the recommended way (exhaustively searching all variations) - this type of brute force reading doesn't work that well in games where I have to consider my time and I think tesuji will make me quicker at finding the vital / good points during my games, making my game more "sharp". Also, I'm no good at managing my time and I stress out during byoyomi - this game was 30s byoyomi and that is bare minimum for me. Is it worth playing shorter games or should I just practice speed through repetition and not force myself to play fast in fast games?

Third - KGS - how do I get comments in my sgf when I upload it here? Do I put it on eidogo and comment and then upload here or can I make a review in KGS and link to that? I'm used to OGS which is a bit different.

Anyways, like before - any comments are welcome (harsh criticism especially - just tagging moves that are slow or slack)

Oh and I'm going to be buying a batch of Go books - is the Jump Level Up series good? I'm afraid that I'm missing fundamentals in my play so I want something that's comprehensive. Alternatively I'm thinking Yilun Yang's principles, a few problem sets (get strong / 1001 / graded go problems) and the tesuji, endgame and life&death books in the elementary series. Recommendations?

Top
 Profile  
 
Offline
 Post subject: Re: Progress in Black and White
Post #5 Posted: Sun Jun 12, 2016 1:00 pm 
Lives with ko

Posts: 147
Liked others: 6
Was liked: 14
Rank: SDK
Today's game. A win, but I'm not happy (nothing new here). Happy with my overall study today though, I did a lot of tsumego and am starting to build speed in pruning variations (recognising more quickly when things transpose into dead / living shapes) - didn't do a lot of good in my game today but oh well.

The endgame is on my mind. It's not something I've learned anything about other than "sente and reverse sente counts for double" - but I find it hard to apply in my games. Is "The Endgame" by Davies a good book to become more systematic in my endgame?

The game with comments:
http://eidogo.com/#3aAGmo8F9

Still not figured out how to get the game with comments linked here from Eidogo - the eidogo link appears invalid in preview if I try to display as a SGF.

Here is the uncommented game direct from KGS archives:


Like before - any comments are welcome.

Top
 Profile  
 
Offline
 Post subject:
Post #6 Posted: Sun Jun 12, 2016 1:02 pm 
Judan
User avatar

Posts: 7596
Location: Santa Barbara, CA
Liked others: 278
Was liked: 1701
GD Posts: 312
Hi Majordomo,

:b15: Extend once first, to B4.
If W B5, you still get your E4 atari -- and W cannot take; W has to connect at D3.
This is very different from the game shape where W ponnukis.
( If W B5, and you turn at B3... who kills first ? )
Extending your :b13: sacrifice stone is a standard technique (proverb: "sacrifice two").
If your plan is not to extend, then you should play E4 directly on :b13: --
W still cannot get the ponnuki shape in the game.

:b19: This direction is strange. How much development can you get on the bottom ?
Little. The bottom is already low and full of stones.
Instead, what's another direction to consider ?
Q6. Develop the right and top sides. Look at the whole board.
:b33: Slow. You still want to split W and attack W's right group ?
That group is not that weak -- not your target right now.
Do you think W will spend a move here to link up, in gote ?
No. This means nobody cares about G1.
Tenuki. Take a big point, say, approach top left corner, F17.

:b35: Think about which direction has more potential.
What do you notice about the lower left corner ?
W has B6 and follow-ups to reduce the left side.
Which area of the board currently has no :white: presence ?
Top and Right of the Tengen currently has zero :white: stones! Look at the whole board. Approach F17.
:b43: Ah. You missed the same technique of your :b13: sacrifice.
Standard sequence:
:b43: Cut at D17. :white: C17 atari. :black: D18 sacrifice one more. :white: C18 extend.
:black: D15 atari. :white: C16 connects (W cannot ponnuki).
:black: G17 hane. :white: E18 atari. :black: F18 atari.
:white: D19 take. Then you fix your cut at G16 (connect solidly at G16, or tiger's mouth H17).
You take the outside and completely close W off in the corner.

Top
 Profile  
 
Offline
 Post subject: Re: Progress in Black and White
Post #7 Posted: Sun Jun 12, 2016 1:30 pm 
Lives with ko

Posts: 147
Liked others: 6
Was liked: 14
Rank: SDK
Thank you for your comments - and a good way of making me consider them actively. I got most of them right, but for move 35. I approached from this side with the idea that influence needs and extension - so I wanted to extend from my "wall" to his corner - but I guess forcing him to take his base in that direction instead while I claim the top is better - especially since my wall is safe as it stands.

I am right in what I've learned - that the kick & pincer my opponent did against both my approaches are considered bad for white in this setting (unlike say in the chinese fuseki where there is a stone at the midpoint already to prevent the approacher getting an optimal extension from his pillar)?

Top
 Profile  
 
Offline
 Post subject:
Post #8 Posted: Sun Jun 12, 2016 1:39 pm 
Judan
User avatar

Posts: 7596
Location: Santa Barbara, CA
Liked others: 278
Was liked: 1701
GD Posts: 312
Majordomo wrote:
...for move 35. I approached from this side with the idea that influence needs and extension -
so I wanted to extend from my "wall" to his corner...
Hi Majordomo,

Please see also John's post #5 here: influence v. thickness question.

Following these 'check points':
  • Make sure your thickness is thickness.
    It is; your bottom wall is massive thickness.
  • Stay away from thickness.
    This is where your :b35: is too close to your own bottom thickness.
  • Push your opponent toward your strength.
    Thus F17 candidate.

Top
 Profile  
 
Offline
 Post subject: Re: Progress in Black and White
Post #9 Posted: Sun Jun 12, 2016 4:51 pm 
Judan

Posts: 6478
Liked others: 1518
Was liked: 2414
Some comments. :)


_________________
Don't cry for me, Sergeant Tina.

Top
 Profile  
 
Offline
 Post subject: Re: Progress in Black and White
Post #10 Posted: Sun Jun 12, 2016 10:34 pm 
Lives with ko

Posts: 147
Liked others: 6
Was liked: 14
Rank: SDK
Thanks for your comments & variations. For my small plays I think I do them because I *dream* of what they make possible (such as him connecting on the bottom - I remember thinking that if he doesn't get to connect maybe I can kill him (even though I should know I can't) - also I do have a tendency to start guessing what my opponent might play based on previous play, such as if I realise he'll always save the one stone, never not take even if it leaves him in gote - But that is a bad and risky habit.

Since the kick-pincer or just kick extend joseki seems to be a favourite of so many fellow kyus I really need to learn some of those patterns you showed for reducing it or sealing it in.

Top
 Profile  
 
Offline
 Post subject: Re: Progress in Black and White
Post #11 Posted: Mon Jun 13, 2016 2:55 pm 
Lives with ko

Posts: 147
Liked others: 6
Was liked: 14
Rank: SDK
Keeping it up with another game today. This one was a calm affair without anything of note really happening thought I felt like if my opponent just cut me sometime then it would have been a much more exiting affair (and probably better for him too - to me it felt like he was overly submissive and afraid of complication while I felt ahead so decided not to push too hard).

I think I played slow and slack at several points in this game, and at move 65 and 77 I was at a complete loss as to what to do (especially 65).

Here is the game commented on eidogo:
http://eidogo.com/#EAVSGc3E:0,0

And here is the embedded game from KGS (still no clue how to get comments here):



Other than that - been doing tsumego, trying to get through Cho Chikun's Elementary just so that I can start doing some (not only life & death) tesuji exercises for a change.

Top
 Profile  
 
Offline
 Post subject: Re: Progress in Black and White
Post #12 Posted: Mon Jun 13, 2016 3:49 pm 
Lives in sente

Posts: 922
Liked others: 407
Was liked: 221
Rank: AGA 4k KGS 4k
GD Posts: 61
KGS: dfan
Your 65 looks pretty reasonable to me! At a glance I don't see any urgent life and death issues, and that's the biggest area left. The other point that looks interesting is something like H14, but you can't go too wrong with working on the corner first. Definitely do not jump into the 3-3 point yet.

At 77 my eye is once again drawn to F14.

Top
 Profile  
 
Offline
 Post subject: Re: Progress in Black and White
Post #13 Posted: Mon Jun 13, 2016 10:42 pm 
Lives with ko

Posts: 147
Liked others: 6
Was liked: 14
Rank: SDK
I ran the game through Leela and it too agreed with move 65 - the problem was mostly my follow up I suppose after he invaded the 3-space I should have jumped into his corner first before doing anything directly with that stone. I don't know how I missed it in the game.

I'll admit I don't see anything with F14? It doesn't cut the groups apart and the top is completely alive isn't it? or am I missing something?

Top
 Profile  
 
Offline
 Post subject:
Post #14 Posted: Tue Jun 14, 2016 12:03 am 
Judan
User avatar

Posts: 7596
Location: Santa Barbara, CA
Liked others: 278
Was liked: 1701
GD Posts: 312
Hi Majordomo,

:b27:

:b37: Please see (again) Toothpaste and related pages.

:w38: o11. Please see (again) Toothpaste and related pages.

:b53: Slow.

:black: 133 What if S18 ?

Top
 Profile  
 
Offline
 Post subject: Re: Progress in Black and White
Post #15 Posted: Tue Jun 14, 2016 12:39 am 
Lives with ko

Posts: 147
Liked others: 6
Was liked: 14
Rank: SDK
Yeh, the toothpaste thing struck me as what should have happened. For some reason I thought it would be fine but I guess I should have pulled back with P13 maybe? I think the original move at P10 was bad and should have been the peep at Q8 or keima at P11 maybe. He was way to submissive there that's for sure.

133 - Oh, nice. I missed that sequence - I was too happy to not just obliging him by playing A11. I've done a ton of this particular tsumego (belly attachment?) I really need to stay sharp with my reading in these games - too easy to switch on autopilot.

27 and 53 I picked up on when I went over the game so at least I do get some things right in my self reviews heh.

Thanks a lot for your comments. Hope today's game will be interesting - I'm trying to play stronger players but it seems tricky to get people to play you even then on KGS. I feel some of the games I've learned the most from are the 9 stone games I've had against amateur dan players - so some low kyu players in even games would probably beat me but at least I'd learn (or so I hope).

Top
 Profile  
 
Offline
 Post subject:
Post #16 Posted: Tue Jun 14, 2016 1:10 am 
Judan
User avatar

Posts: 7596
Location: Santa Barbara, CA
Liked others: 278
Was liked: 1701
GD Posts: 312
Majordomo wrote:
I should have pulled back with P13 maybe ?
Re: :b37: If the broken shape is bad ( which depends on the global context ),
then either keima P13 or o12 could be the solution ( which again depends on the global context ).

Top
 Profile  
 
Offline
 Post subject: Re: Progress in Black and White
Post #17 Posted: Tue Jun 14, 2016 4:28 am 
Lives in sente

Posts: 922
Liked others: 407
Was liked: 221
Rank: AGA 4k KGS 4k
GD Posts: 61
KGS: dfan
Majordomo wrote:
I'll admit I don't see anything with F14? It doesn't cut the groups apart and the top is completely alive isn't it? or am I missing something?

Sorry, I meant H14 (I got it right the first time).

Top
 Profile  
 
Offline
 Post subject: Re: Progress in Black and White
Post #18 Posted: Tue Jun 14, 2016 7:19 am 
Oza

Posts: 2463
Location: DC
Liked others: 145
Was liked: 435
Universal go server handle: skydyr
Online playing schedule: When my wife is out.
Regarding your question about getting comments, download the sgf and edit it using your favorite sgf editor. Then when you create the post, upload the file, preview the post, and copy/paste the link you see in the preview into the sgf tags to show the uploaded file when you submit it. You can preview it again to check.

Top
 Profile  
 
Offline
 Post subject: Re: Progress in Black and White
Post #19 Posted: Tue Jun 14, 2016 2:26 pm 
Lives with ko

Posts: 147
Liked others: 6
Was liked: 14
Rank: SDK
Thanks for the tip skydyr, and yeh, I see what you mean with H14 (I think) dfan.

Anyways, for today's game I played against a 3k and won on time. If my last game was calm this was anything but - and the majority of the full-board fighting took place in byoyomi so I think there were several missed lines of play for both sides.

I'm somewhat proud of my game - I did make mistakes (of the kind that I can recognise myself) both in reading and judgement but I think I held my own somewhat. He ended up making weak groups that I could harass and hopefully kill at one point but timed out like I mentioned while the fight was still ongoing.

Winning on time is a bit (very) disappointing - but was probably the only way I could win the game since I doubt I'd see the required lines to kill his weak groups and my endgame is very weak.

I've taken a bit of time to run the game through Leela (an AI) - just to see how it evaluates the position, and it has me ahead for most of the game even (it drops me significantly behind after move 57 but then has me ahead again from move 85 after my opponent makes a second weak group). However Leela might be fancy with it's evaluation but it doesn't really explain what I did wrong so any comments are welcome!

The game with comments:


Attachments:
zxLFbSTT.sgf [6.71 KiB]
Downloaded 360 times
Top
 Profile  
 
Offline
 Post subject:
Post #20 Posted: Tue Jun 14, 2016 4:06 pm 
Judan
User avatar

Posts: 7596
Location: Santa Barbara, CA
Liked others: 278
Was liked: 1701
GD Posts: 312
Hi,

:b25: R5 ( your var ) is OK.

:b29: Maybe slow.

:b31: Slow. Your comment correct: you follow him.

Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 171 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2, 3, 4, 5 ... 9  Next

All times are UTC - 8 hours [ DST ]


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 3 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
Powered by phpBB © 2000, 2002, 2005, 2007 phpBB Group