Hi Majodomo,

Perhaps some day in the near future AlphaGo can tell us, quantitatively, if it prefers a "peaceful" reply like this, or a pincer, to work with your 4 existing stones. I vote for a pincer.

Why do you want to kick W here ? If W extends up, which is basic shape, now W has an ideal extension with -- why help W ?
H3 direction is natural feeling.

Maybe push up D12 first.

Feels floaty... Maybe J16.

Maybe R9 is better preparation to exploit W's local shape.

Maybe L16.

Feels like already misreads and shape problems before here.

Given this result, it's much better to simply connect on .

Maybe just E18.

Misread ? Pass ?

W gives you a chance to fix your corner; take it: E18.
Locally, maybe K2, etc.

This gives W a chance to o2: take o2 yourself.

Standard bad habit; S6.

R2 clamp.

E18.

100 C3.

110 , 101 You need to stop this kind of bad habits
(re: ) -- they add up, and are obstacles for you.

112 Strange direction; K9.

134 ?

144 Problem with your basics. Find the correct move.

166 A18.

Thanks a lot for your comments, and ach! So much that I miss or do despite knowing better - and I can't even blame fast play (since I ended in byoyomi while he still had plenty of main time). I fear I sometimes overthink myself and make things worse (not to mention become short on time).

Hmm... My (often misguided) thoughts on things:

B2 - No good answer, I just never like to pincer until I see the shape of things - but without komi and me having four stones I guess breaking the board up is to my favour.

B4 Kick - Misguided thinking, and if nothing else completely wrong order. Isn’t H3 a bit too far? I guess not since I’d welcome it if he wants to play F3 right? (My guess - H3 F3 F4 G3 G4 H4 K3?)

B12 C11 - I considered pushing up, but I think I’ve got it in my head that it requires more support to play that way? D12-E12-C11-D11-C10 just transposes into the same? Or do I play D12-E2-E11 and cut (which is where I’d like some support around me)

B22 O6 - I thought It prepared M3 more than it did.

B28 Q9 - Hmm, this kind of thing is something I should consider more. I knew that his shape was weak but when it came to it my own shape caused problems when I wanted to attack.

B46 - Just want I wanted to play - but I thought him getting O10 would become difficult for me (but I misread - if he gets liberties and plays Q11 and I can just ladder his R10 stone.

B68 - That was my instinctual play - but this was where I consciously avoided “just taking territory” - and maybe overdoing it in the process.

W69 - Surprised me, I knew there was nothing there.

B70 - Again, undervaluing securing my corner as a way to become able to play more severely later.

B82 - Ugh, here I spent to much time overthinking it.

B84 - Yeh, I’m just helping him get a good shape right?

B86 - After R2 S2 Q2 ( or Q3 S3 Q2?), isn’t he able to live on the side after S6? This is where I become too “scared” of the complications since I’m not able to read it all out and instead I play “safe” (slack, slow, timid).

B110 - Don’t push unless you cut, I should print it on my forehead (and there’s no cut here so I just let him become solid)…

B112 - I thought it would be easier to disconnect him this way, and to get more profit, but I’m not really sure what I was thinking or why I thought that way.

B134 - I “give up” - and simply remove the aji and give him the stones for free. At least I should make him work for the capture.

B144 - B17, as to why I didn’t play it? again, outthinking myself by becoming scared of complications after B17 C18 B18 D18 E18 E15 F15 E16 E17 D13 … but it is nothing, my only excuse was that I was in late byoyomi… but I need to trust my reading and play what I believe is right instead of half-assing it and getting nothing at all.

B168 - Doesn’t that lead to a Ko if he plays A15 (then B A13 him A17?)? Maybe thats good for me though.

I've read enough here to know you don't like these proverbs phrased like absolutes, but I've never considered them such and isn't "do something if it is good, don't if it's bad" sort of miss the point a bit? Ideally yes, but when I'm not strong enough to figure out a lot things on my own in my games, and even when I do I often don't have the time to get there. That's why I think proverbs are useful as a heuristic method for generating candidate moves, or to question those I'm considering. They aren't default or universal, but they are frequently applicable and worthy of consideration maybe? Had I even considered in the game that - Hmm, I can't cut there, should I really push and help him make shape? Well, maybe, maybe not, lets read something else as well.

However you are all to right that read read read is the only way - and the way I most frequently fail in my games I think, proverbs or not. But I'm working on that - I promise!

Well, what do you mean by "read read read"? Do you think that we should all reinvent the wheel?

_________________
The Adkins Principle:
At some point, doesn't thinking have to go on?
— Winona Adkins

Visualize whirled peas.

Everything with love. Stay safe.

You guys are mean - Well, for my weak head I need both reading and heuristics, as I'm just playing worse and worse these days...

Two games I played today - the first I messed up by letting him cut me off and in the second well, the second is the kind of player I want to do bad things to... I know it's fair game, doesn't mean I don't detest it (mostly because I've been passing and waiting for the game to end for so long that I'm no longer paying sufficient attention).

Comments are always welcome:

First game - handicap game that went well until I started making life difficult for myself and collapsed.


Second game - I think he could have killed my top left corner there so I think I mishandled the whole split and attack him idea of descending to the 3-3 but yeh, I'm not sure - I think I got away with stuff. Anyway, I was winning until I started passing and he began his speculative play that worked out because hey the game was over right?! (he didn't agree)

First game

Sagari to S-05. Standard attacking play. Now White has three, count'em, three weak groups and Black is strong. Can White live in the corner? Mebbe so, mebbe not. Say that he does. In gote, OC. Then Black attacks the other two groups. It is like taking 4 or 5 stones from this guy. White is toast.

Strengthens White, weakens Black. Sagari to S-01. Nice things happen on the 2-1 point. Now Black has 4 liberties, 6 if White has to play outside liberties first. White can connect for 4 liberties. Who wins the semeai? It is well worth it to play around with this position.

If you are going to read, it helps to read the right play.

_________________
The Adkins Principle:
At some point, doesn't thinking have to go on?
— Winona Adkins

Visualize whirled peas.

Everything with love. Stay safe.

Thanks! I'm doing jump level up 2 at the moment, and it's all about descending in these semeai situations so I don't know why I missed it. Hopefully this will help hammer it into me.

So, one - probably last but who knows - game today. In this game I actively wanted to avoid complications and so played less adventurous and more in the way of "connect everything". And it worked. Against this opponent anyway. Hopefully it's down to better play on my part and not my opponent ceding me everything (though he did somewhat I guess - being on the timid side when it came to cuts and such).

Hi Bill,

I continue the trend of awful play - I don't even know what happens in most of my games anymore. From most of my games going to scoring most of them end with me resigning after throwing away everything on a misplay or just a plain oversight (see the game I lost today - move 126)

First however is one I won at least... Though I don't know - most of the game was spent with him trying to kill me and me thinking it was no way it would work but oh well... In the process of trying to kill me he ended up too thin and stretched and pretty much without any points so.






I'm also adding a second game (the first game I played today) which illustrates most of what is typical of my games these days...
I've gone over it so I have some idea of where I went wrong (move 38, 58, 86 (and everything that follows...), 112, 126 (which I can't for the life of me explain, and after which point I sort of give up but want to practice endgame)), but any pointers are of course very welcome.

Aaaaand two more of the more typical games these days...

Still don't understand why I suddenly am unable to win a game against 5-6k's when I was 50-50 against 4k's before summer... I'm even doing a fair bit of Tsumego & Tesuji problems (Just started Jump Level Up 4 after finishing 3).

In the first game I mishandled my attack on his counter pincer after he jumped into my micro (mini?) Chinese. Something I note is that I seem incapable of making leaning attacks to build up sufficient strength to do what I want to do (namely cut and rip him to shreds). Also, I'm clinging to my stones and play aji-keshi and make things heavy and weak in an effort to save where I should learn to sacrifice. The top right is a great example of this... I didn't even read out properly since I was in byoyomi and just hoped he'd mess up...

In the lower left I blocked on the wrong side, letting him connect back. After which I got an undeserved result by him letting me separate him again. I missed a nice tesuji(?) at C3 in the corner as well. I think that after this the game is unfavourable but salvageable for me if I didn't manhandle my top group like I ended up doing.



The second game - This one I'm not quite so sure about. I feel like I got a good result in the first corner and at some point should have been able to make more profit by pushing him around - however I think I was too afraid of getting cut and thus didn't play as severely as I maybe should have(?). There is no excuse for 83 though, playing on auto-pilot like that and making the move in an instant - for 139 I need to play B10 if I want to even try and keep him from his eyes but it shouldn't be possible I think. My goal was to get him in a situation where he needed to make the eye in gote and thus letting me cut of a part of the tail (something like B10 C12 A12 E12 E14 F11 G11 G13 H12). In the end though, I played poor endgame - stressing like always in my last byoyomi - and then never even saw how much ahead he was.



By this rate I'll be back where I started in January.

Whew - a very poorly handled invasion (overplay?) ended with me killing everything when he blundered. Oh well - I'll take it but I don't feel good about it.

Comments on how to handle his group on the right side and in general what I should aim at around move 35 37 39 and 71 & 75 where I kind of felt lost as to which direction to aim at. How would you guys evaluate the board at that point and where would you try to build / attack?

EDIT: I've been using GoKibitz a bit for my recent games and I really like it - lots of stronger players giving me useful advice on my games and a neat platform. Here is a link to this game https://gokibitz.com/kifu/VyGX_YF5Z

Anyway - here is the game:

What was your intent with move 41? How did you intend to use it to make profit?

I think 41 was a fine move, but some of the follow up looks like you weren't sure how you wanted to use it. Before I comment on those moves, I'd like to hear what you were thinking.

Hehe I made the exact comment in Gokibitz - I knew I needed to do something against the stone, and I felt my choices were to play R11 or the shoulder hit. In hindsight I think I missed the fact that he couldn't make a two space extension after R11 so I'd prefer to play that if I were to do it again.

I had some fear of him getting too much strength facing the center, allowing him to lay claim to too much at the top. However I'm already well enough into the center when I look at it again and I don't really need to fear him getting to much there. I can already limit his top with something like G15, H15, H14, and build something equally nice or nicer for myself (something I overlooked completely). So the shoulder hit - poorly reasoned and poorly followed up since I didn't even confine him to the side but let him get out.

I've already looked over the game a bit with Leela and it really liked my position at this point - which tells my my evaluation was off since I maybe feared his top and overvalued his bottom too much.

I've made some comments here:

I've written my thoughts on move 41 and the followup below. Take everything I've written with a grain of salt since I'm around your level. These are just my ideas.

Here's the position after move 40:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code

[go]$$W
$$ +---------------------------------------+
$$ | . . . . O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X O O X O O . . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . X O X X O . . . . . . O . . X . . |
$$ | . . X X O X O . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . X . X . . . . . . . O . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . 1 . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . X . O . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . O . . . O . X . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ +---------------------------------------+[/go]

It's not an unreasonable invasion by white, so you shouldn't expect to kill the stone. So before you attack it, you need to consider where you are going to make profit. I think there are two major places you can look to profit: you can make territory in the bottom right, or you can build strength toward the center. Both forms of profit will come by attacking the stone. (It doesn't look to me like there's much profit to be made on the upper side, and I think your stones there are strong enough that they won't be in danger if you push white in that direction.)

The shoulder hit you played seems like a pretty reasonable place to start. I'm sure other moves could also work (perhaps the cap skydyr suggested), but the shoulder hit is nice.

When you play this, it seems you're saying that you want to keep white out of the center.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code

[go]$$B
$$ +---------------------------------------+
$$ | . . . . O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X O O X O O . . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . X O X X O . . . . . . O . . X . . |
$$ | . . X X O X O . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . X . X . . . . . . . O . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . 1 O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . a . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . X . O . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . O . . . O . X . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ +---------------------------------------+[/go]

It's a little dangerous because it invites white to hane at the head of your stones. Playing at "a" would be another idea that would help your bottom while keeping your shoulder hit connected. I think it's what I would have tried, but I can't say for sure if it's better.

But when you get to here:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code

[go]$$B
$$ +---------------------------------------+
$$ | . . . . O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X O O X O O . . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . X O X X O . . . . . . O . . X . . |
$$ | . . X X O X O . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . X . X . . . . . . . O . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . X . X O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . b . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . 1 . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . X . O . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . O . . . O . X . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ +---------------------------------------+[/go]

You played a move to expand your bottom corner. But that's not what you chose up above, so white breaks out into the center while hurting the bottom. A move like "b" would have kept white's group sealed in on the side, but now you haven't really met either of the local objectives. It's not all bad; you did get some center influence and some bottom territory. But you're vulnerable in both areas, and I don't think you had to come out of that fight with vulnerabilities.

Moral of the story: decide where you're going to take profit before you attack, and try to make your moves consistent with that purpose.

I very much agree with the whole "play consistently" thing - as in - I don't. I still really think that I should play R11 - but my followup from the shoulder hit tried to do too many things half-way instead of one thing well.

Thanks a lot for your comments, and yours as well Skydyr!

For this game I'd decided to be more aggressive (or confident maybe?) than I think I tend to be - fortunately I think my opponent played his own reckless style (such as deviating from joseki in the first corner (and although he got a better result than he should have I at least got away with sente and keep initiative). Then after some fighting sequences I'd managed to squeeze all the large points on the board and was without weak groups after which I played err, very defensively (read: slack) - my reason was that I knew I was ahead by a lot, but it's still a bad habit to get into I think - I'm not good enough to judge if I can or can't coast to victory so I shouldn't take things for granted like that.

Like the last game I also posted it on GoKibitz:
https://gokibitz.com/kifu/EJYGNno9b

And here is the SGF:


Currently reading Jump Level Up 4 - the series has made me a bit more comfortable with Semais like the top left in this game, but I still rely too much on wishful thinking - I think that the books reliance on giving you the goal is a weakness because there is no such thing in the game - after I finish the series I think I'll go over "The Endgame" and "Attack & Defence" (2nd time) before trying my hand at Cho Chikun's Intermediate since the whole - solve it without a solution or hint of the solution really helped me learn to read the first time around when I went through the elementary collection. From what I've gathered, is it so that the Graded Go Problems series also gives away the objective for each puzzle? If not maybe I'll get that because I want to practice tesuji (for cut / connect / capture / sente / shape / endgame etc.) as well as pure life and death.

An interesting position arose in the previous game. When White stands at 2 (56 in the game) Black should resist with 3 and 5. If White resists in turn with 6, Black ataris with 7 and then fills a liberty with 9...

Click Here To Show Diagram Code

[go]$$Bc 8@3
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X O O X O O . . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . X O X X O . . . . . . O . . X . . |
$$ | . . X X O X O . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . X . X . . . . . . . O . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . X . X O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O 4 O . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . X O 3 6 . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . X O 5 . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . 0 9 X O 7 . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 2 O 1 . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . X . O . . . O . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . O . . O . . . O . X . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

If White continues with the descent at 4 as in the game, Black can now cut at 5. White 10 looks like the toughest continuation.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code

[go]$$Bc
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X O O X O O . . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . X O X X O . . . . . . O . . X . . |
$$ | . . X X O X O . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . X . X . . . . . . . O . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . X . X O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O O O . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . X O O O . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . 1 X O X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . O X X O X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . 7 O O X 3 . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . 8 5 2 4 . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . 9 X 6 . |
$$ | . X . O . . . O . , . . . . . , 0 . . |
$$ | . . O . . O . . . O . X . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Something like the position below results. White has hollowed out Black's corner but has not made many points in the process. Meanwhile Black has massive thickness in the center. Along the way there are various other alternatives. However, White pretty much has to connect or the the upper right stones have to live separately in gote, leaving any stones in the bottom right at Black's mercy.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code

[go]$$Bc 9@ marked stone
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X O O X O O . . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . X O X X O . . . . . . O . . X . . |
$$ | . . X X O X O . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . X . X . . . . . . . O . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . X . X O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O O O . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . X O O O . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . X X O X 6 |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . O X X O X 8 |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O W X X 4 |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . 1 O X O O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . X . . . 5 2 X X O . |
$$ | . X . O . . . O . , . . . . 7 3 O . . |
$$ | . . O . . O . . . O . X . . . X 0 . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

_________________
Dave Sigaty
"Short-lived are both the praiser and the praised, and rememberer and the remembered..."
- Marcus Aurelius; Meditations, VIII 21