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 Post subject: Re: Progress in Black and White
Post #121 Posted: Thu Oct 27, 2016 7:55 am 
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dfan wrote:
I did say "They're not quite in order of increasing difficulty." :) For example, if I recall correctly, volume 4 of the Tesuji series is pretty easy.
My mistake :)

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 Post subject: Re: Progress in Black and White
Post #122 Posted: Thu Oct 27, 2016 10:00 am 
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I enjoyed LCH L&D v1-3 and Tesuji v1-4. Tesuji v4 is definitely DDK. I haven't continued the other volumes yet, but it's on the plan, and I'd recommend it based on the volumes I have read.

Regarding 1001 L&D, I'd highly recommend it. It's a good companion to Get Strong at Tesuji. As dfan said, the problems are artificial, but I credit both books as my primary gains in strength (12k - 5k with two iterations of both).

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 Post subject: Re: Progress in Black and White
Post #123 Posted: Thu Oct 27, 2016 10:29 am 
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My only takeaway is to get it all hehe.

Though if the LCH books are not so "artificial" I feel that's a good thing. I figure that maybe 1001 Life & Death has a similar style as Cho Chikun's Elementary (and possibly Intermediate)? If so I still have those readily available for drilling common corner shapes / notchers etc. I think Chikun's Elementary was the same for me as 1001 for you in that it really sped up my improvement when I did it.



@Shenoute - thanks for the comments on the game, I've been taught to be averse to the attach on top joseki so I didn't even consider that, but yeah that would really build some strength into the center. What is the primary consideration when chosing the joseki btw? I know it typically ends in gote unlike other joseki where white approaches(?). For 84, should I have attached on top or the diagonal instead perhaps?

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 Post subject: Re: Progress in Black and White
Post #124 Posted: Thu Oct 27, 2016 10:55 am 
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Majordomo wrote:
My only takeaway is to get it all hehe.


Couldn't agree more! :lol:

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 Post subject: Re: Progress in Black and White
Post #125 Posted: Thu Oct 27, 2016 12:56 pm 
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So I did get a game in after all! My opponent asked for a chatty game, so there's quite a bit of chat but I tried not letting it distract me. His love for fighting brought him some trouble I think but I also sorta got away with murder at some points there (where he could have complicated the game a lot and probably made my position collapse). Move 72 especially I think was poor, but I didn't want to play the 3-3. Could I have attached to the side maybe? 114 as well I think, not really sente. 152 should be L12. Also I mess up the lower left corner altogether I think by risking the ko like I did.

A question though in the lower right, I know the joseki calls for a 1 space extension, but what aji exactly can I exploit if he dares to jump 2 spaces like in this game (it's also played I know, but I'm not sure how it leaves me with any particularly good follow up moves I should be on the look out for)?

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 Post subject: Re: Progress in Black and White
Post #126 Posted: Thu Oct 27, 2016 1:53 pm 
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Majordomo wrote:
A question though in the lower right, I know the joseki calls for a 1 space extension, but what aji exactly can I exploit if he dares to jump 2 spaces like in this game (it's also played I know, but I'm not sure how it leaves me with any particularly good follow up moves I should be on the look out for)?


First, where is the obvious play for White to aim for? I think you can guess. :) (Hidden out of courtesy.)

The attachment at R-05, because S-05 is pretty much forced.

There is more than one additional followup after S-05. Q-05 is obvious, because it threatens S-06, cutting Black in two.

There is another nice followup, also hidden out of courtesy. :)

The counter-hane at S-06, because after R-06 - Q-05, S-07, capturing the S-06 stone does not work. You can see why. :) So Black connects at S-04. Now White may have threats to save the S-06 stone.

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 Post subject: Re: Progress in Black and White
Post #127 Posted: Fri Oct 28, 2016 7:56 am 
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About the 2 vs 1 space extension, it's worth noting that whether white has made the solid or hanging connection makes a big difference here. Pros have indeed been trying out the 2 space recently, but always (or almost always, you can check with pattern search) when white has the hanging connection. My understanding of this is that with the solid connection the thinness of the 2-space extension is a lot easier to exploit, one major reason being because black 4 in the sequence below is no longer atari. I might go as far to say the 2-space with the solid extension will usually be a mistake, but as the experiments with this shape show one shouldn't be too dogmatic.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$W
$$ . . . . . . . . . |
$$ . . . . . . . . . |
$$ . . . . . . X . . |
$$ . . . . . . . . . |
$$ . . . . 4 2 1 . . |
$$ . . O 5 O 3 X . . |
$$ . . . O X X 6 . . |
$$ . . . . . . . . . |
$$ . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ------------------+[/go]

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 Post subject: Re: Progress in Black and White
Post #128 Posted: Fri Oct 28, 2016 10:29 am 
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Majordomo wrote:
@Shenoute - thanks for the comments on the game, I've been taught to be averse to the attach on top joseki so I didn't even consider that, but yeah that would really build some strength into the center. What is the primary consideration when chosing the joseki btw? I know it typically ends in gote unlike other joseki where white approaches(?). For 84, should I have attached on top or the diagonal instead perhaps?

Yes, I think I remember something similar from Kageyama's lessons, about the attach-and-extend joseki being uninteresting if used only as a corner sequence. But here, with the white K4 stone it might be a good choice.

I don't know about 84, it is a difficult position. I think it is mostly due to the kick at :w74:. Black is now very strong here and white cannot lean on this group to attack :b83:. If another joseki had been played something like the following diagram would have been possible, with white 6 leaning on black group, threatening both to attack the 1-3-5 stones and to take points on the side.
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$B
$$ | . . . , . . . . . . .
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . X 6 . . . 4 . . .
$$ | . . . . . . 5 3 2 . .
$$ | . X . O . O . 1 . O .
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . .
$$ -----------------------[/go]


In the game, maybe playing :w84: at M3, putting some pressure on the P2 black stones, and then jumping out? But with black's wall above it doesn't look very promising...Sorry not to have something more definitive to offer :-)

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 Post subject: Re: Progress in Black and White
Post #129 Posted: Fri Oct 28, 2016 11:51 am 
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@Shenoute - Not at all, I know there are few positions with definite answers, so seeing stronger player's take on things is great!

Uberdude & Bill, thanks a lot for showing the sequences for the corner - so is it rightly interpreted that white can use the threat of the cut to build more strength here, more than one can with the peep when black only jumps once? I sort of neglected the corner for most of the game, because that's what I often do after this joseki - it just feels so solid and uninteresting - but in the case of the game would playing at R9 have been a good option for white because of the weakness there? As a way to strengthen the right group and have a nice follow-up if black ignores?

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 Post subject: Re: Progress in Black and White
Post #130 Posted: Fri Oct 28, 2016 3:27 pm 
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Majordomo wrote:
Uberdude & Bill, thanks a lot for showing the sequences for the corner - so is it rightly interpreted that white can use the threat of the cut to build more strength here, more than one can with the peep when black only jumps once? I sort of neglected the corner for most of the game, because that's what I often do after this joseki - it just feels so solid and uninteresting - but in the case of the game would playing at R9 have been a good option for white because of the weakness there? As a way to strengthen the right group and have a nice follow-up if black ignores?

Maybe r9, or even r8. I think it's ok to leave if for a while as you don't know what you want to do there yet. However, I only just now looked more at the game. G2 was a huge mistake! Black can't live there even if he plays first so you should just jump out with your wall and then he can't even squeeze you so it's totally game over.

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 Post subject: Re: Progress in Black and White
Post #131 Posted: Sun Oct 30, 2016 11:46 am 
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Thanks a lot for the comments! Yeah, I should have realised that I didn't actually need to try and take the stones off the board just yet.

So, I attended the Norwegian National championship this weekend - signing up as a 4k. It didn't go very well - but I managed a 2-3 record. I'm in the process of transcribing the games - and it's fun to see that I mostly remember them by heart, unlike the shorter time-control games I play on KGS / IGS etc.

A common theme in all my lost games was losing won games. I've looked at the games using Leela and CS and for each game I effectively blundered it all away from a rather decent (perceived) advantage - either through greed (overplaying, trying to kill when not needed) or like in game 1, a bad misread (in addition to some unnecessary overplay).

Here is game 1, comments are appreciated - I play as white and feel like I get a good advantage at one point but ultimately blunder there at the end by dying on top. I also think that greed got the better of me in the lower left corner, I don't think I actually needed to try and draw out the stone like I did. Just play calm and try to simplify (which also means making sure all my stones are alive).

The game ending mistake is 128 I think, where I can play K15 instead. However, I played the self-atari (move 130) in 2 seconds flat with 20 minutes left of main time so yeah... Not a happy start, but I'm relatively happy with how the game went until I blunder (EDIT: aaaand I got a nice reality check on GoKibitz hehe - lots of mistakes! Oh well).



I'll post the rest soon. Also, I ended up buying 11 / 12 of the Lee Chang Ho Tsumego / Tesuji books, the fact that I'm missing volume 3 of life and death will bug me to no end but I'll try to live with it.


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 Post subject: Re: Progress in Black and White
Post #132 Posted: Mon Oct 31, 2016 1:27 am 
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Round 2 from the tournament, I play as black this time. I think my opponent is 6k, but I'm not sure.

The game (I'm black, win by resignation):


Anyway, I feel like I misplay in the opening. Especially move 21 I don't like - I feel with how the rest of the board shaped up I should play from the other sid, R8 maybe?

Then move 25 - looking back this feels maybe a bit impatient and greedy - calmly play Q18 first maybe, or harrass his two stones and then come back to invade / reduce his top. However in the sequence that follows white lets me off easy and creates a problem for himself (or so I felt).

Move 43 - I didn't even consider the cut, but I think I should have connected here. L15 maybe?

Move 53 - Overplay, I should clean up on top and let white take the three stones. I still have a target with his two stones and with the top becoming my territory I feel like this game should be very good for me since white would need to make it up in the center but has a weak group.

Move 71 - Again, I think maybe cleaning up the top and letting him live in gote with the stick should be be fine.

Move 73 - Ugh, I spent a long time reading here and I still think this is just wrong - J17 or just capture the one stone first?

Move 90 - I think the clamp is the move for white here? It becomes very tricky we decided when we reviewed the game afterwards

After that it is a capturing race where I win. I don't think G19 was the ideal way to continue at move 97 it still works. Then white resigns


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 Post subject: Re: Progress in Black and White
Post #133 Posted: Mon Oct 31, 2016 2:46 pm 
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Third game:
https://gokibitz.com/kifu/4JKHwilgz


My brain was turning to mush and I played the entirety of the game in less than 20 minutes (we had 60 minutes main time), while my opponent was hitting byoyomi.

However, maybe my tempo threw my opponent off a bit because I felt like I had a decent shot until I decided that I really just wanted to kill so that he could resign and I could go home. Turns out he got to kill and I resign but oh well.

It turns out it's really a lot harder to play these multi-hour games back to back than I gave it credit! I really felt exhaustion set in here at the end and I wanted it to be over. Not having coffee or sufficient to eat throughout the day also didn't help matters.


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Post #134 Posted: Wed Nov 02, 2016 12:13 am 
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Aaaand game 4 and game 5 (win and loss respectively, and I think I had game 4 until I overplayed at 127):





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 Post subject: Re: Progress in Black and White
Post #135 Posted: Tue Nov 08, 2016 9:35 am 
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Sickday meant I got in a few games (three, 2-1). I'm posting the loss because I'm unhappy with how the game went, I spent to much time and had to play in byoyomi for the majority of it - but I felt I had an advantage at one point but I was too concerned for my own groups that I never got in the crucial move on the right side (O9), and then once he jumped out I never found a way back in. Am I right in thinking black is happy if I play 75 O9? I figure it is sente against his right side and that the bottom can live as it stands (though I was concerned in game):

Also, I missed two opportunities to just kill and end the game at the end with the cut in the upper left...


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 Post subject: Re: Progress in Black and White
Post #136 Posted: Wed Nov 09, 2016 1:14 am 
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Hi Majordomo,

A few thoughts (which I hope are not too misguided :-)):

- Yes, O9 was really big. :b37: should have been at Q9. I don't think white can kill black in the corner even if he plays first (especially since his Q5 group is also not alive yet).

- :b49: to :b55: doesn't feel good too. Black's group gets out (somehow) but at the cost of having his C9 group sealed in. B12, B4 and the other moves are very pleasant for white. Instead of :b49:, maybe jumping out (around L8? N9 ?) would have helped black's group without making white so strong in the area.

- :b57: is a bit the same idea. This move pushes from behind and does not link up black's groups. If black is going to play from this side, the keima at N11 seems better. It is more efficient to build the top right and, most important, it reaches out to the K10 stones.

- After :w76:, still the same idea. :b77: is one step behind white and helps him in keeping the two black groups separated. It adds stones to the R9 group that wasn't in danger and does nothing to help the the K10 group. Simply getting out at K11 seems enough.

To sum up, these three moves/sequences (moves 49 to 55, 57 and 77) made it easier for white to achieve something. Incidentally these are all contact plays, making black but also white stronger in the area. In these positions, standing back and playing non-contact moves (jumping instead of :b49:, keima at N11, K11) might have yielded better results.

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 Post subject: Re: Progress in Black and White
Post #137 Posted: Wed Nov 09, 2016 2:07 am 
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Far less misguided than mine hehe, thanks for your comments! And yeah, this pushing from behind thing is way to easy to convince myself of as a good thing (or at least not a "bad" thing) but yeah, probably the reason why I always felt a move behind locally (because I was). Connecting at Q9 would have been great, but how do I live after? I'm not even sure what white's best attack is, R3?

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 Post subject: Re: Progress in Black and White
Post #138 Posted: Wed Nov 09, 2016 3:02 am 
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I tried to add some comments. I admit the corner situation is more complex than I thought, but still I think black can handle it (see also my comment about what may happen even if black cannot live in the corner).


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 Post subject: Re: Progress in Black and White
Post #139 Posted: Thu Nov 10, 2016 2:33 pm 
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Nice, thanks for the variations!

So continuing the trend by posting today's loss:



Ugh, I ended up in byoyomi way to early and never managed to read anything - so he ultimately lived everywhere and I missed a Ko for the lower corner and then after that I don't think I could have done anything (?). I feel with sharper reading something should have died here, maybe, or maybe I'd just have enough points to win from him living small everywhere.

One question in particular, giving up the lower right corner for the outside potential, worth it? Could I have started with Q2 and tried to do something against his group?

At least I managed to win two games as well heh.

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 Post subject: Re: Progress in Black and White
Post #140 Posted: Sun Nov 13, 2016 7:18 am 
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First of all, I would love to play this opponent myself, only for kicking his butt for behaving the way he did.

Overall, you play fundamentally well, except for 1 aspect

+ You play for connectivity
+ You follow the logic of earlier moves, even if that means you need to give up some stones
+ You surround and attack

but

- You play many moves which achieve nothing, hence are aji-keshi, if only for loss of ko threats

these are the THEME MOVEs

Next to that,
- missed opportunities at 115 & 133 to kill the dragon
- 141 is perhaps the only move which sins against strategic fundamentals
- 191: needless risk taking
- 225: painful ko's lose the game

You would have easily won thanks to your fundamentally sound game, but for missed opportunities and risk taking at the end.



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