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 Post subject: from chobo to gosu
Post #1 Posted: Wed Oct 26, 2016 12:08 pm 
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Hey guys,

so, here is my study journal:

introduction

I'm 30 year old and started go at the beginning of this year. I did know the rules before but didn't really play a game. I reached a unstable 21kyu level at the beginning of the summer and then had a long break until October. From then on I watched the basic series of dwyrin on youtube and climbed up to stable 17k on IGS and regularly beat 15/16k players (even managed to beat a 14k).

my weaknesses

At the moment there are three problems that I face and two are kind of the same:
1) I don't know when and how to take a fight and I can't read tsumego at intermediate level (and higher of course).
2) I play too fast (I try to force me to put my hand of the mouse after every move and play only when I figured the move completely out but it doesn't work most of the time).

goal
I don't have a specific goal but I want to get as far as I can go. Of course it would be nice to reach shodan.

games
I'm trying to play at least 2 games a day and I will post my worst loss(es). It would be nice if some of you can comment them so I can improve.

greetings

PS It would be nice if you'd also correct my english as I'm not a native speaker and want also to improve my language skills.

Edit:

rank table
17.10.2016 => 17k
30.10.2016 => 17k+
02.11.2016 => 16k
04.11.2016 => 16k+


Last edited by winterwolff on Fri Nov 04, 2016 10:20 am, edited 4 times in total.
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 Post subject: Re: from chobo to gosu
Post #2 Posted: Wed Oct 26, 2016 12:14 pm 
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Here is my worst loss of today:



€: Can someone tell me why this does not work? I saved the sgf directly from IGS und did it like described here:
viewtopic.php?f=48&t=833


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ZJLYVDIKKK.sgf [3.12 KiB]
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 Post subject: Re: from chobo to gosu
Post #3 Posted: Wed Oct 26, 2016 1:26 pm 
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Hi,
After you attach the file, press preview, then copy link address from the attached file you can see in the preview (if that made sense). That's how I do it anyway - not sure if there's another (simpler) way.

EDIT: I'll try adding in some comments once I get some time!

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 Post subject: Re: from chobo to gosu
Post #4 Posted: Wed Oct 26, 2016 2:08 pm 
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Majordomo wrote:
After you attach the file, press preview, then copy link address from the attached file you can see in the preview


Thats exactly what I did, the link of the sgf is "http://lifein19x19.com/forum/download/file.php?id=7868" and I did put [ sgf-full][/sgf-full] around it.

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 Post subject: Re: from chobo to gosu
Post #5 Posted: Wed Oct 26, 2016 2:26 pm 
Oza
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winterwolff wrote:
Majordomo wrote:
After you attach the file, press preview, then copy link address from the attached file you can see in the preview


Thats exactly what I did, the link of the sgf is "http://lifein19x19.com/forum/download/file.php?id=7868" and I did put [ sgf-full][/sgf-full] around it.


The "mode=view&" was removed from your url. You can look at the source of your post with "quote" button.

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Post #6 Posted: Wed Oct 26, 2016 5:29 pm 
Honinbo
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Hi winterwolff,

Welcome! :)

With luck, you'll get good reviews here ( and elsewhere ) to help you improve.

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Post #7 Posted: Wed Oct 26, 2016 5:38 pm 
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Hi winterwolff,

:b4: Not so bad, but: can you see J3 ( near there ) is a nice point for W ?
If W jumps around there, W can settle himself,
so B doesn't get much there.

Did you consider L3 or Q2 ?

:b6: You start a fight. :) OK. R8 is another option for you.

:w7: Maybe better to get out directly ( P7, etc. )

:b8: Not so good: could be a bad habit --
you make W stronger, you fix W's weakness, for very little gain for yourself.
The local shape is o2.

:w9: W should just reply and connect at Q5 -- this exchange is not good for B.
Locally, C17 is soft. W can double approach ( F16, F17, etc. )

:b10: Since W ignored your :b8: peep, you should push through at Q5,
then cut ( R4 or R6, depending on which side you want ).

Locally, C16 direction is better.

:b14: Basic shape problem: this shape is thin, has weakness.
Still, push through at Q5 and cut is big.

:b24: Globally, not a bad move ( to build center power ).
But, it's slow. Push-and-cut with Q5 is big.

:b30: Learn the basic shapes here -- there are two local, shared vital points: F5 and E3.
If you extend to F5, W can take E3.
If you make a tiger's mouth with E3, W can atari at F5.

F5 and E3 can be considered Miai points.

:b34: Basic shape: Atari E5 first, then extend to B4.

:b38: Compare the local results if you had :b34: @ E5 atari, then extended to B4 -- to your game result here.

:b44: Can you find a better local move ?
Did you consider B5 ?

Suppose you play B5, and W ignores you --
Can you find the next local move for B ?
What if you play B3 after B5 ?


This post by EdLee was liked by: winterwolff
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 Post subject: Re: from chobo to gosu
Post #8 Posted: Thu Oct 27, 2016 7:32 am 
Oza

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As a more general comment, black seems to like to attach to other stones a great deal in this game. In the future, particularly in areas of the board where your stones outnumber the opponents, you should consider other moves instead. Every time you attach, you make the opponent's stone stronger, and this helps them negate the local advantage that you have.

For the 4-4 stone, you can consider playing a pincer on the other side of the approaching stone, or just a normal knight's move or one space extension from the 4-4 instead.

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Post #9 Posted: Sat Oct 29, 2016 12:55 am 
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EdLee wrote:
:b4: Not so bad, but: can you see J3 ( near there ) is a nice point for W ?
If W jumps around there, W can settle himself,
so B doesn't get much there.

Did you consider L3 or Q2 ?


If he plays on J3 I would cap him => he gets territory on the bottom, I would get influence to the mid (at least that is what I would suppose)

How would the gane continue if I play on Q2?

EdLee wrote:
:b6: You start a fight. :) OK. R8 is another option for you.


I just want to cage (is this the right word?) him in, so that he gets the corner and I get the influence.

EdLee wrote:
:b8: Not so good: could be a bad habit --
you make W stronger, you fix W's weakness, for very little gain for yourself.
The local shape is o2.


I see, thanks.

EdLee wrote:
:b10: Since W ignored your :b8: peep, you should push through at Q5,
then cut ( R4 or R6, depending on which side you want ).


But then I lose the upper corner?

EdLee wrote:
Locally, C16 direction is better.


Ok

EdLee wrote:
:b24: Globally, not a bad move ( to build center power ).

That is what I'm always trying.

EdLee wrote:
But, it's slow. Push-and-cut with Q5 is big.


Ok.

EdLee wrote:
:b30: Learn the basic shapes here -- there are two local, shared vital points: F5 and E3.
If you extend to F5, W can take E3.
If you make a tiger's mouth with E3, W can atari at F5.

F5 and E3 can be considered Miai points.


Like I said, I don't know how to fight. Which solution would you consider for my fighting problem? Mass tsumego?

EdLee wrote:
:b34: Basic shape: Atari E5 first, then extend to B4.
:b38: Compare the local results if you had :b34: @ E5 atari, then extended to B4 -- to your game result here.

I see.

EdLee wrote:
:b44: Can you find a better local move ?Did you consider B5 ?


Now yes, but not in the game. What do you think of C3 instead of B5?

EdLee wrote:
Suppose you play B5, and W ignores you --
Can you find the next local move for B ?What if you play B3 after B5 ?


I see and realized.

Thank you for your help.

What is the best way to improve my shape building?


skydyr wrote:
As a more general comment, black seems to like to attach to other stones a great deal in this game. In the future, particularly in areas of the board where your stones outnumber the opponents, you should consider other moves instead. Every time you attach, you make the opponent's stone stronger, and this helps them negate the local advantage that you have.

For the 4-4 stone, you can consider playing a pincer on the other side of the approaching stone, or just a normal knight's move or one space extension from the 4-4 instead.


Thank you too, I'll try this.

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 Post subject: Re: from chobo to gosu
Post #10 Posted: Sat Oct 29, 2016 12:59 am 
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Next proof of my fighting weakness.

I don't know what I thought about :b72:, P10 should be the right answer, right?

He has 19 prisoners in the end, I have one. This is like every game...


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Post #11 Posted: Mon Oct 31, 2016 1:57 am 
Honinbo
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Your game with Heathridge (15k+) :

:b4:
winterwolff wrote:
How would the gane continue if I play on Q2?
Q2 -- part of a basic joseki.
Good to study some basic josekis.

:b10:
Quote:
Since W ignored your :b8: peep, you should push through at Q5,
then cut ( R4 or R6, depending on which side you want ).
winterwolff wrote:
But then I lose the upper corner?
Like I said, I don't know how to fight. Which solution would you consider for my fighting problem? Mass tsumego?
Did you study what happens for :b10: if you push through with Q5, then cut ?

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Post #12 Posted: Mon Oct 31, 2016 3:35 pm 
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EdLee wrote:
Good to study some basic josekis


Can you recommend a specific book or website?

EdLee wrote:
Did you study what happens for :b10: if you push through with Q5, then cut ?


Ok, now I did. I won't lose the upper corner and gain a lot in the corner on the bottom right :)

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 Post subject: Re: from chobo to gosu
Post #13 Posted: Wed Nov 02, 2016 6:16 am 
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Jumped up to 16kyu! :D

Here is my latest loss:



What would have been the best response to his move on N6?

Is there a chance that I could have won the game if I hadn't make the mistake in the end?


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 Post subject: Re: from chobo to gosu
Post #14 Posted: Wed Nov 02, 2016 7:01 am 
Oza

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The initial response to N6 is fine, but you can't play as if it's a ladder, because white has an extra liberty and will destroy you utterly, as you saw. Just connecting and leaving white with a weak group is fine.

At the end, I assume you're referring to the big capture when black didn't connect? No, black was still pretty far behind after the debacle in the upper left.

I'll make more comments on the game when I have more time.

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 Post subject: Re: from chobo to gosu
Post #15 Posted: Thu Nov 03, 2016 5:22 am 
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Ok, thank you so far :)

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 Post subject: Re: from chobo to gosu
Post #16 Posted: Thu Nov 03, 2016 4:43 pm 
Oza
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As skydyr pointed out (and you learned in the game), you can't treat the N6 cut as if it were a ladder. However, if White plays 7, you can catch it in a net. After 10 below White cannot escape. Play around with this position until you are sure you understand it. Note that the dead White stones have considerable aji. You cannot resist either the cut at 'a' nor the push at 'b'. Indeed you probably have to give up the stones on the right side if White keeps pushing after 'b'. Note also that if White had used 7 to play atari at 'c', Black would have had to let the stones escape due to the aji on the side.
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wc
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O O . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X O O . . . . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . X X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O X X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O . , . . . . . , . . . . . O O O . |
$$ | . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . X X X |
$$ | . . . . X . . . 0 . 8 6 . . . . X O . |
$$ | . O O O X . . . . 9 7 5 2 c . . X O . |
$$ | O X X O X . a X X X 4 3 1 X X b . O . |
$$ | . X O X X . X O X O X . X O X O O . . |
$$ | X O O X . O X O X O X . X O O X X O O |
$$ | . O O X X X O O X O X X O O O X X O X |
$$ | . O X X O O O O O O O O O O X . X X X |
$$ | . . . X . . X . . . . . . . . X . O . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

So is 2 above the right way to answer 1? No it is not. You could do much better. You should notice that the lower right White stones are not alive. Your goal is not to catch the N6 stones but rather the lower right group. Start from the other side with 2 below. If White pulls out the N6 stone almost any play on the right protects everything and ensures that the lower right stones are captured (playing at 3 is the most conservative). If White plays 3, trying to use the aji of 1 in order to live, it looks like Black can keep everything with 6 and so on. Note that if you play 2 at 3 immediately to keep the right safe, White can capture two stones with 'a'. This is not terrible compared to your gain on the right. However, you have time to protect with 2 if you understand conditions on the right.
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$W
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O O . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X O O . . . . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . X X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O X X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O . , . . . . . , . . . . . O O O . |
$$ | . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . X X X |
$$ | . . . . X . . . . . . . . . 6 . X O . |
$$ | . O O O X . . . . . . . . . . 5 X O . |
$$ | O X X O X . . X X X . 2 1 X X . 3 O 4 |
$$ | . X O X X . X O X O X a X O X O O . . |
$$ | X O O X . O X O X O X . X O O X X O O |
$$ | . O O X X X O O X O X X O O O X X O X |
$$ | . O X X O O O O O O O O O O X . X X X |
$$ | . . . X . . X . . . . . . . . X . O . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

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 Post subject: Re: from chobo to gosu
Post #17 Posted: Sat Nov 05, 2016 5:24 am 
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Thank you so much for your suggestions! :)

I do now understand the net but I will probably not see this in games. How can I practice this?

The same thing on the right, I would never see this in games either. I still have this beginner problem: If my opponent attaches my stones my mind goes crazy like "omg, what shall I do, I gonna lose 2 stones". I should relax more during games to see the right moves/answers but it's hard.


Except playing games, I did start Kageyamas "Lessons in the Fundamentals of Go".

And here is my latest loss:



1. What is the best answer after white O3?
2. Instead of M15 I should have played something like R14?
3. The upper right is again a debacle, like skydyr said. This happens often in games, don't know why I even do win some of these and how to stop making crucial mistakes.
4. What is the best answer to white K3? I wanted to prevent him accessing the middle so that I can get some territory there but it was a complete fail as you can see.
5. I should have taken F17 so I can get his upper left group or the stones in the right of this group.


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 Post subject: Re: from chobo to gosu
Post #18 Posted: Sun Nov 06, 2016 1:29 am 
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This is my worst loss so far:



My opponent was only fighting and took about 0,5s per move. This was infecting my play style, I couldn't resist to do the same. The result is speaking for itself.

Is he sandbagging or cheating?


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Post #19 Posted: Sun Nov 06, 2016 3:11 am 
Honinbo
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Quote:
My opponent was only fighting and took about 0,5s per move. This was infecting my play style, I couldn't resist to do the same. The result is speaking for itself.
The good thing is you already correctly identified one big problem.

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Post #20 Posted: Sun Nov 06, 2016 3:14 am 
Honinbo
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Hi ww,

:b9: Not good, wrong feeling.
A pincer is better (example: D11 )

:b15: Very strange. E8.

:b29: E17.

:b31: E17.

:b33: Before this block, you didn't read
W's push-and-cut with :w34: and :w36: .

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