It is currently Sat May 27, 2017 12:16 pm

All times are UTC - 8 hours [ DST ]




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 51 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2, 3  Next
Author Message
Offline
 Post subject: Uberdude's journal
Post #1 Posted: Wed Oct 12, 2016 5:26 am 
Oza

Posts: 3951
Location: Cambridge, UK
Liked others: 137
Was liked: 1936
Rank: UK 4 dan
KGS: Uberdude 4d
OGS: Uberdude 7d
I thought I'd start a journal as I have some recent motivation to get stronger again. Maybe I'll even break the habit of a lifetime and do some tsuemgo! A few years ago EdLee collected people's unfulfilled ambitions and I said I'd aim for British Champion, which I achieved last/this year (the final game of the 2015 championship was in February 2016) but since then I had a few bad losses/tournaments (I lost in the first round of my first 6 tournaments as champion!) and my rating has gone down a lot to Euro 3d (see graph below). I think this was probably because I felt 'mission accomplished' and got lazy/relaxed/arrogant. I missed out on the title match this year as I had 3 loses (Junnan and Charlie, the top 2, and Bruno) in the Challengers' tournament. I have done a lot of international Go tournamenting recently with the WAGC (did well on paper but really only so-so with 4 easy wins, 3d-, 5d+, 6d-, 4dforfeit) and Gold Cup (lost all 7 games against strong field, but had 3 disappointing loses I could have won, see viewtopic.php?f=12&t=13554).

So my goals are:
- at least play in if not win British Championship title match next year
- get 2400 rating
- get solid 5d KGS from non-blitz

The 2400 target is one we had with the BGA strong player training weekends with Guo Juan a while back. I don't think anyone who wasn't already there (Matt Cocke, Andrew Kay) has made it, though I did get very close just after the title match with 2396. It's kind of tough to pick up rating points in British tournaments as there aren't many strong players and if I beat a 2d 4 times and lose once I lose points (I had my first loss against Alastair Wall after 12 wins in a row in April, unlucky 13!). So I really need to up my consistency and reduce blunders. To find stronger players probably means London Open or foreign tournaments. I haven't played many serious games on KGS the last few years, just silly blitz in odd moments so I will try to find fewer but longer periods of time to play serious games there, hopefully around one a week (wife permitting). In those shorter moments I'll try to do some tsumego, perhaps http://senseis.xmp.net/?GokyoShumyoTsumegoSeries (thanks Dieter for inputting those!) or from tasuki's site. I'm also playing in the European Team league, I'll review my game from yesterday in the next post.

Attachment:
rating graph.png
rating graph.png [ 4.88 KiB | Viewed 2361 times ]


Last edited by Uberdude on Wed Oct 12, 2016 7:35 am, edited 1 time in total.

This post by Uberdude was liked by 3 people: dust, Ortho, sparky314
Top
 Profile  
 
Offline
 Post subject: Re: Uberdude's journal
Post #2 Posted: Wed Oct 12, 2016 6:12 am 
Oza

Posts: 3951
Location: Cambridge, UK
Liked others: 137
Was liked: 1936
Rank: UK 4 dan
KGS: Uberdude 4d
OGS: Uberdude 7d
Yesterday was my first game of this season's Pandanet European Team Championships. I was board 1 against Turkey's Fatih Sulak 2d (or 3d) whom I hadn't played before (I was expecting to face Emre Polat 5d who I played twice before (1 win each) and I met at the WAGC). He's a bit older and 6-time Turkish champion.



My synopsis (for website so not such a review tone):
Quote:
My game started with a standard joseki, but then he did a weird old one with descent to 2nd line instead of pull back and I answered with a weird nobi that Takagawa played against Kitani and felt I got a decent result extending in front of his shimari. Later I invaded his lower side and he made a shoulder hit as a pre-emptive ladder breaker so I had to live more submissively; but he played inconsistently in attaching to my corner to prevent a link up there, but then going back to spend a move there later so I lived by scooping out lots of his territory without losing my corner.

He then pressed my side to build the centre but I resisted, allowing myself to get cut. He defended the wrong cut probably thinking I didn't have the ladder for the other, but I would squeeze him to an ugly dumping so did well in the fight (but probably should have haned instead of one point jump in the centre as my group there still felt vulnerable once his cutting stones connected out).

Next he offered a ko and I accepted though I probably should have just defended the side, let him win the ko and take the last big point, but instead I played the ko and he ignored my not-so-amazing ko threat and invaded the side so I had to be careful of some weak groups as I was entering overtime. He started a pretty desperate ko in the ensuing fighting which I eventually won leaving some bad aji in his surroundings, but when I poked at it he overplayed trying to gobble me up (he was in overtime by now) and instead I killed a bunch more stones for a good lead.

In the endgame he tried a few more desperate reductions; I played a poor timesuji so he did gain about 20+ points but was still behind and I got sente to tease him more in the centre; he then ventured further into my territory with his weak group so I cut him in the centre, he defended one side so I cleanly killed the other and he resigned. A comfortable win in the end, though I should have tidied it up sooner.

More detailed review. My potential biggest mistakes highlighted:
- I wondered about k17 as p17 approach and checking pro games I see one example which leads to fighting (http://ps.waltheri.net/database/game/69375/), so although his shimari feels nice I think k17 can't be so bad and saves time for later.
- Felt I dealt ok with his Kitani-style/trick s5.
- I think his k4 should be l4.
- h3 was hard to choose. I tend to like this invasion too much but what else to do? r14 is nice but q10 is nice for him next and makes r14 inefficient (I would probably answer his checking extension there with one point jump). I have both ladders currently...
- His shoulder hit was interesting but I felt could be aji keshi. How about attaching h4 first and then daring me to wedge. If I do the ladder stuff then shoulder hit and I take stone and r10 is super painful whilst his f3 group is not so bad.
- d3 interesting idea, but g3 bad because d3 lost meaning (once I live inside f2 is sente so he can take corner at c3, but d3 lost that. Happy to live and take all his points and his wall has cuts.
- p7 nice move, if he can turn his thin wall to moyo not so bad for him I felt.
- :w60: n6 big decision, could it be overplay? But I can't abide answering and him sealing centre better than without q8-r8 exchange.
- m5 mistake, should o8. I guess he thought I don't have ladder but missed squeeze.
- s10: did a lot of reading here for following fight. I choose this to allow q12 hane at cost of getting cut.
- o11 jump should maybe hane q12 as this jump doesn't actually add much safety to the group once his cutting stones get out. I figured inducing him into forcing my right side to live was good enough, but maybe not.
- :w84: l7. I wanted to d9 and declare game over, but then n10/n8 peeps were annoying and my centre feels weak. Hence doubts of the one point jump. If I am going to gote here maybe should q12 hane, he jumps then play here. His cutting stones still need to get home.
- d5 as I lack ko threats maybe I should atari and endure being pressed?
- :w88: d2. Don't think I should ko. Should just d9 to connect and if he does another move in corner I can n17, maybe with n14 r15 exchange first.
- :w98: thought about tenuki if it means sacrificing only 2 stones, but then saw t11 kills all. Phew!
- l4 threat was not so amazing, he did well to ignore. I think instead of capture maybe I should still play d9! Let him take, then n17. d9 and n17 are the key points of this game.
- his d9 obviously a good move and he now has some chance to win if I screw up fighting.
- f14 should maybe b3 and then endure attack on that group?
- his mv 131 e12 ko is pretty desperate but I did get myself in a bit of a pickle.
- mv 149 ho ho ho! really?
- his mv 157 big mistake, greedy, need to answer. Great result for white to capture left.
- mv 176 t5 Dumb timesuji. It's weird that if he answers he dies but if he tenukis I can't do much. Should take care of top with l14 or l18 etc.
- mv 192 h9 powerful. Black big troubles.

I think biggest lesson here is avoid the ko and defending d9. Although I outplayed him in the fighting in overtime that was a bit lucky as his d9 made the game complicated. I could have avoided that with an easy way to win a won game. I did actually think about this during the game but got caught up in the excitement / too much fighting spirit "he made a ko, I must atari!".

A few variations:

If my n6 is a good move then he should do something like this. I get the 2 stones but they aren't so big and his centre wall cuts worries dissipate. If he had a/b exchange then this is much better for black. Hence my resistance.
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm59
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X O . . O . . O . . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . X X X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O X O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . 8 . X O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . 5 6 4 a b . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . 7 . X O . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . 3 . 1 2 O O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O O X X . |
$$ | . . . O . . . X X X . . X X . , . . . |
$$ | . . O X . X X O O O X X O O X X X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . X . . O O . O O X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


What I expected, reasonable fight? next a?
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm65
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X O . . O . . O . . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . X X X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O X O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . X O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . a . . . X O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . 6 . 1 . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . O O X O O O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . 4 . X O O X X . |
$$ | . . . O . . . X X X 3 2 X X 5 , . . . |
$$ | . . O X . X X O O O X X O O X X X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . X . . O O . O O X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Better to hane? I didn't like his getting a good shape, but I suppose I don't mind answering at b too much as he loses c or other peeps.
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm78 better?
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X O . . O . . O . . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . X X X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O X O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . b . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . a 1 . c . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . 2 . X O . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . X O O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . X O . O |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O X X O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . 3 . . . X O O X X |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . O O X O O O X |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . X . X O O X X . |
$$ | . . . O . . . X X X . . X X . , . . . |
$$ | . . O X . X X O O O X X O O X X X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . X . . O O . O O X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Dodge to d9 better?
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm87
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X O . . O . . O . . 8 . X . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . X X X . . . . . . . . . . 6 7 5 . . |
$$ | . O X O . . . . . . . . 4 . . X O . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . X O . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . X O O . |
$$ | . . . 2 . . . . . . . . . O . X O . O |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O X X O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . O . . . X O O X X |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . O O X O O O X |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . X . X O O X X . |
$$ | . . . O X . . X X X . . X X . , . . . |
$$ | . 3 O X . X X O O O X X O O X X X . . |
$$ | . . 1 . . . . X . . O O . O O X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Admit my threat was small and dodge to the 2 big points?
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm106
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X O . . O . . O . . 5 . X . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . X X X . . . . . . . . . . O X X X . |
$$ | . O X O . . . . . . . . O . . X O . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . X O O . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . X O O X |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . X O O . |
$$ | . . . 3 . . . . . . . . . O . X O . O |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O X X O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . O . . . X O O X X |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . O O X O O O X |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . X . X O O X X . |
$$ | . . . O X . . X X X 1 4 X X . , . . . |
$$ | . . O X . X X O O O X X O O X X X . . |
$$ | . . X O X . . X . . O O . O O X . . . |
$$ | . . . 2 . . . . O . . O X . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Any comments on the game appreciated, thanks!

Top
 Profile  
 
Offline
 Post subject: Re: Uberdude's journal
Post #3 Posted: Fri Oct 14, 2016 11:57 am 
Dies with sente

Posts: 124
Liked others: 10
Was liked: 128
Rank: UK 2d Dec15
KGS: mathmo 4d
IGS: mathmo 4d
Hi uberdude. Great to hear you're gonna get stronger! Welcome to study journals.

A bunch of thoughts



Attachments:
Uberdude-fatih-2016-10-11x.sgf [3.99 KiB]
Downloaded 663 times
Top
 Profile  
 
Offline
 Post subject: Re: Uberdude's journal
Post #4 Posted: Sat Oct 15, 2016 9:45 am 
Oza

Posts: 3951
Location: Cambridge, UK
Liked others: 137
Was liked: 1936
Rank: UK 4 dan
KGS: Uberdude 4d
OGS: Uberdude 7d
Mi Yuting just beat Ke Jie in the final of the Quzhou-Lanke Cup and I found Ke's use-or-not of the kick against 4-4 approach particularly interesting so will try to analyse it a bit. It had some similarities with my game at the Gold Cup against Dmitry Surin, see below. My plan with the r5 kick (versus simple one point jump) was to play that invasion of his 3 space extension and then sacrifice it to secure the corner in sente before defending the top right. However he was not so obedient and invaded there which is quite a powerful invasion when backed up by L16 and r10 (I think it was a good move, maybe r5 was not or maybe it's ok, you have to lose something to gain something).



A similar thing happened in Ke's game. This kick against an isolated approach is one of the most common kyu mistakes ("don't kick unless you already have the pincer like a high handicap game") and it's normally bad because you make them stronger and they can make an efficient 3 space extension. However, if you can invade then sacrifice in sente to shore up the corner that's pretty nice too (though is rather aji keshi). I seem to recall Lee Changho using this tactic, he is the master of positional judgement and controlling the game so it suits him well; I will do some pattern searching later.

So Ke and Mi played the popular AlphaGo opening, black (Mi) got two big corner and white a nice side. Black got sente to approach white's double 4-4s. Ke kicked, my understanding of this is black already has 2 corners so he doesn't want to get behind on territory (if just knight's move I think black will slide, 3-3, extend). Mi answers a bit and then doesn't defend, but approaches the lower corner and immediately invades. He scoops out the corner and then connects on the left side which makes his tedukid-from group there stronger (so white's move there is now really just yose instead of weakening the group). As o3 is low and strong white's wall on the lower side doesn't seem so great. Ke takes sente to grow the right side, and Mi then attacks the wall a bit. Ke connects out but it's a crappy low connection and I feel the game is now hard for him. So I wonder what would happen if he kicked the second approach too in an attempt to keep the corner for himself. Some variations and comments in the sgf.


Top
 Profile  
 
Offline
 Post subject: Re: Uberdude's journal
Post #5 Posted: Sat Oct 15, 2016 9:37 pm 
Judan

Posts: 6082
Liked others: 1434
Was liked: 2328
In your game, what do you think about tenuki at move 12? You have prevented the Black enclosure at D-15 in sente, and can treat the two White stones in the top left corner lightly, no? :)

_________________
"Drooling Banjos"

Top
 Profile  
 
Offline
 Post subject: Re: Uberdude's journal
Post #6 Posted: Sun Oct 16, 2016 3:38 am 
Oza

Posts: 3951
Location: Cambridge, UK
Liked others: 137
Was liked: 1936
Rank: UK 4 dan
KGS: Uberdude 4d
OGS: Uberdude 7d
Bill, I suppose the idea is partly that as black played the 2nd line descent rather than extend up it's easier for me to tenuki, but I'm not really comfortable with it. The two stones don't feel particularly light to me: I could play 3-4 or 3-3 to live with some corner territory though don't wish to so early as black presses to make a nice top side, but if those 2 stones later die I could regret losing the chance to take the corner.

Also one could make the tewari argument that white did allow blank to make the shimari, white attached on the outside which is a reasonable enough move if a little special (we see it a lot with the AlphaGo opening recently as in Ke's game), black extended down instead of hane on top or extend up which is a rather slack move, but then white played nobi which is rather heavy if it is black's move next.

So if white tenukis what black move might we expect there next and does it make me sad (say if white approaches on lower side, black answer, white hoshi). One would be the cap which I played. As black has the 2 not 3 space extension on top that grows the upper side nicely with no easy invasion for me. The other is a pincer. Of course Black might not attack yet if white is happy to tenuki again to the lower right corner.

... wip

Top
 Profile  
 
Offline
 Post subject: Re: Uberdude's journal
Post #7 Posted: Sun Oct 16, 2016 4:54 am 
Dies with sente

Posts: 124
Liked others: 10
Was liked: 128
Rank: UK 2d Dec15
KGS: mathmo 4d
IGS: mathmo 4d
perhaps it's your jump at f15 that makes them heavier. B has enough stones to not have to respond. whereas extending to c11 directly makes miai for a base on the left.

regarding your kick on the bottom right. I think that W has played so much for centre influence in the top left, that kicking may be inappropriate harmony with that. (similarly for ke jie). Also after q8, I've watched a pro video saying s8 is often the best way to settle the position (and stop tenuki in this case). If protect then connect, if descent then wedge. It looks good in this case.

Top
 Profile  
 
Offline
 Post subject: Re: Uberdude's journal
Post #8 Posted: Sun Oct 16, 2016 7:41 am 
Judan

Posts: 6082
Liked others: 1434
Was liked: 2328
Uberdude wrote:
Bill, I suppose the idea is partly that as black played the 2nd line descent rather than extend up it's easier for me to tenuki, but I'm not really comfortable with it.


Yeah, I have never felt particularly comfortable leaving those stones as is, myself. But looking at how the game developed I felt that White was a bit slow. Also, I have been impressed with how often the pros tenuki in that joseki. After reading your note I took a look at Waltheri. Your jump is number 1, but tenuki is the plurality choice, 246 games to 99 (40% to 16%). In fact, tenuki is more frequent than the three top choices of move combined. ;) Also, after White tenuki, Black tenuki is even more popular, the 62% choice. Black's decent is somewhat passive, and it also leaves any extension by White with an open skirt, so White is not looking to make much territory with those two stones.

Quote:
So if white tenukis what black move might we expect there next and does it make me sad (say if white approaches on lower side, black answer, white hoshi). One would be the cap which I played. As black has the 2 not 3 space extension on top that grows the upper side nicely with no easy invasion for me. The other is a pincer. Of course Black might not attack yet if white is happy to tenuki again to the lower right corner.


Yes, the Black boshi has a good relation with the rest of Black's stones on the top side. The one space jump prevents it, OC. :) But Waltheri shows a move that I had overlooked, the two space jump. That is a lighter play and exerts a bit more influence on the top side. Also, it may make it harder for Black to play the second line turn, which he did in the actual game, as after the one space extension White is happier with the two space jump than the one space jump, I think. :)

_________________
"Drooling Banjos"

Top
 Profile  
 
Offline
 Post subject: Re: Uberdude's journal
Post #9 Posted: Wed Oct 26, 2016 2:42 am 
Oza

Posts: 3951
Location: Cambridge, UK
Liked others: 137
Was liked: 1936
Rank: UK 4 dan
KGS: Uberdude 4d
OGS: Uberdude 7d
Bill: I did consider the 2-space jump and it is nicer if black turns as you say, but chickened out of it because I feared Surin would cut it immediately (that seems to be his style) and wanted to avoid unnecessary early complication. I'd be less cautious playing it against a weaker player, maybe not good reasoning...

Top
 Profile  
 
Offline
 Post subject: Re: Uberdude's journal
Post #10 Posted: Wed Oct 26, 2016 3:05 am 
Oza

Posts: 3951
Location: Cambridge, UK
Liked others: 137
Was liked: 1936
Rank: UK 4 dan
KGS: Uberdude 4d
OGS: Uberdude 7d
In my wanderings I came across this old European Championship game between Matthew Macfadyen 6d and Ronald Schlemper 7d from 1985 (when I was born!). The comments are Matthew's based on a Mr Luo, a Chinese pro. Unsurprisingly Matthew makes some early overplay to start a fight, though Ronald doesn't answer perfectly. Only 2 mistakes of his are identified and he wins the game fairly handily. However, one move of his that intrigued me but escaped without comment was as below. After black slid at :b1: white attached with :w2: and lived on top, creating a cutting point on the outside which black took gote to capture so white lived in sente.
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bc
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . 8 . . . . . . 5 . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . 1 . O . . . 4 2 3 . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . @ @ . X 6 9 . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . X X . X . . 7 . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X X . X . X . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O O X O X O O . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . O . O . . . . . . . . X O X . |
$$ | . . . X O . O . O , . . . . O O O O . |
$$ | . . . X . O . X O . . . . . . X O . O |
$$ | . . . . X X X . . . . . . . O X X O . |
$$ | . . . X O X . . . . . . . . O . . X X |
$$ | . . O O O . . X . . . . . X X X X O . |
$$ | . . . . . . O . . . . . . X O O O . O |
$$ | . . O X O X O X X , . . . X . X . O . |
$$ | . . O X . O X O . . . . . . . X O O . |
$$ | . . . . . O X X . . . . . . X X X O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O O . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


However, that kind of attach and pull back felt heavy/crude to me and strengthened black's outside (and monkey jump remains so territory is small), so I wondered if the 2 marked stones could be treated lightly (black's group below is strong now) with the 2nd line jump as below. I don't think white is so sad if black takes the bait as the top side is still open, and the attach at a remains. Or is being pressed so low too bad? Black gets a few points in sente and very thick. Maybe black does have b later though, it depends if/how he completes the capture of the 2 stones.
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wc
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . 7 5 3 1 . b . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X . O . 6 4 2 . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . O O . X a . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . X X . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X X . X . X . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O O X O X O O . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . O . O . . . . . . . . X O X . |
$$ | . . . X O . O . O , . . . . O O O O . |
$$ | . . . X . O . X O . . . . . . X O . O |
$$ | . . . . X X X . . . . . . . O X X O . |
$$ | . . . X O X . . . . . . . . O . . X X |
$$ | . . O O O . . X . . . . . X X X X O . |
$$ | . . . . . . O . . . . . . X O O O . O |
$$ | . . O X O X O X X , . . . X . X . O . |
$$ | . . O X . O X O . . . . . . . X O O . |
$$ | . . . . . O X X . . . . . . X X X O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O O . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


So the other choice for black would be to seal the outside, but this looks quite a bit better for white than the real game to me and I think white's already alive (maybe black 4 one to the right for fancy shape).
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wc
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . 3 1 2 . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X . O . . . . . 4 . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . O O . X , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . X X . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X X . X . X . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O O X O X O O . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . O . O . . . . . . . . X O X . |
$$ | . . . X O . O . O , . . . . O O O O . |
$$ | . . . X . O . X O . . . . . . X O . O |
$$ | . . . . X X X . . . . . . . O X X O . |
$$ | . . . X O X . . . . . . . . O . . X X |
$$ | . . O O O . . X . . . . . X X X X O . |
$$ | . . . . . . O . . . . . . X O O O . O |
$$ | . . O X O X O X X , . . . X . X . O . |
$$ | . . O X . O X O . . . . . . . X O O . |
$$ | . . . . . O X X . . . . . . X X X O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O O . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


What do people think of this 2nd line move? There is some joseki with a similar shape I can't exactly recall.

Full game and comments:

Top
 Profile  
 
Offline
 Post subject: Re: Uberdude's journal
Post #11 Posted: Wed Oct 26, 2016 3:57 am 
Lives with ko
User avatar

Posts: 257
Liked others: 45
Was liked: 76
Rank: igs 3d
In the game (diagram 1), white has sente to reduce the top. In diagram 2, can't black play b immediately, thus building the top in sente?

Something like
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$B
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . a . . O O O O . 1 . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X . O . X X X . 2 . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . O O . X . . 3 . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . X X . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X X . X . X . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O O X O X O O . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . O . O . . . . . . . . X O X . |
$$ | . . . X O . O . O , . . . . O O O O . |
$$ | . . . X . O . X O . . . . . . X O . O |
$$ | . . . . X X X . . . . . . . O X X O . |
$$ | . . . X O X . . . . . . . . O . . X X |
$$ | . . O O O . . X . . . . . X X X X O . |
$$ | . . . . . . O . . . . . . X O O O . O |
$$ | . . O X O X O X X , . . . X . X . O . |
$$ | . . O X . O X O . . . . . . . X O O . |
$$ | . . . . . O X X . . . . . . X X X O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O O . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Whatever white does, it seems to me he will either go out helping black to build the top, or have to come back and live around a, leaving sente to black. And if he tenukies after black 1, his group will be in great trouble, no?

Edit: on an unrelated note, how do you find the game commentaries of amateur games in the BGJ, are they useful? Are a lot of them done by pros, or based on comments by pros? I admit I skipped them and focused and the technical articles but sometimes I wonder if commented games from high level amateurs would not be more (or at least, differently) useful than commented pro games.

Top
 Profile  
 
Offline
 Post subject: Re: Uberdude's journal
Post #12 Posted: Wed Oct 26, 2016 8:26 am 
Judan

Posts: 6082
Liked others: 1434
Was liked: 2328
Shenoute wrote:
on an unrelated note, how do you find the game commentaries of amateur games in the BGJ, are they useful? Are a lot of them done by pros, or based on comments by pros? I admit I skipped them and focused and the technical articles but sometimes I wonder if commented games from high level amateurs would not be more (or at least, differently) useful than commented pro games.


When I was 4 kyu I bought Takagawa's Go Reader. One thing that I liked, and felt was helpful, was that he illustrated many of his points with diagrams from games where each player was around 4 kyu. :)

_________________
"Drooling Banjos"

Top
 Profile  
 
Offline
 Post subject: Re: Uberdude's journal
Post #13 Posted: Wed Nov 02, 2016 1:28 am 
Oza

Posts: 3951
Location: Cambridge, UK
Liked others: 137
Was liked: 1936
Rank: UK 4 dan
KGS: Uberdude 4d
OGS: Uberdude 7d
Shenoute wrote:
Whatever white does, it seems to me he will either go out helping black to build the top, or have to come back and live around a, leaving sente to black. And if he tenukies after black 1, his group will be in great trouble, no?


Yeah, now that I see black 1 on a board (I just added it as an afterthought before) it does seem rather annoying doesn't it? I do wonder though if Matthew's honte capture of the cutting stone with 9 in the game was a bit slow (thus making white's 3rd line attachment result look better than it should have) and could he play something more ambitious which either makes white reluctant to pull out the stone or helps with the top right 3-3. It would leave bad aji though, but sometimes you need to do so to be efficient.

As for BGJ commentaries, there aren't so many. GoGameGuru was my main source of commentaries before they went dormant. Sometimes there are commentaries from some Chinese pros or breakfast. I agree comments on amateur games can be useful in being related to mistakes we encounter.

Top
 Profile  
 
Offline
 Post subject: Re: Uberdude's journal
Post #14 Posted: Wed Nov 02, 2016 1:40 am 
Oza

Posts: 3951
Location: Cambridge, UK
Liked others: 137
Was liked: 1936
Rank: UK 4 dan
KGS: Uberdude 4d
OGS: Uberdude 7d
A rather disappointing set of updates today. Firstly I tried to play some serious games on KGS, but they didn't go well. First off I struggled to find a slow dan game so ended up playing a 2 dan with 5 mins main and 30 sec byo yomi. I decided to have fun with some interesting ladder aji but it was too complex to read and judge in 30 secs. There were a lot of regrets towards the end of panicking and not playing moves I knew were better (like k15 driving tesuji so h13 actually works, or l11 probe before living in middle so that h13 stuff works better, or not playing l4) and I forgot I didn't have komi so lost by a few points. Rather disappointed to lose to a 2d, but I shouldn't underestimate them.



A few days later I played another game, but again it was hard to find a slow game so I played a blitz whilst waiting. This probably wasn't a good idea as when I then got a slower game I didn't play so seriously. Also he resigned when it wasn't clear he was losing. Urgh.



Last edited by Uberdude on Wed Nov 02, 2016 2:53 am, edited 1 time in total.
Top
 Profile  
 
Offline
 Post subject: Re: Uberdude's journal
Post #15 Posted: Wed Nov 02, 2016 2:52 am 
Oza

Posts: 3951
Location: Cambridge, UK
Liked others: 137
Was liked: 1936
Rank: UK 4 dan
KGS: Uberdude 4d
OGS: Uberdude 7d
And then yesterday I had another pandanet Euro teams game, this time against Uffe Rasmussen 4d of Denmark. Here's my synopsis.
Quote:
I lost in a spectacularly stupid way. The game started with a reasonable fuseki, but when he extended high on the top side I didn't feel like making a shimari so invaded. He played an inappropriate pretty shape move in the resulting fight but as I had the ladder to the left I captured a stone for a good result. His ladder breaker wasn't so amazing and I played a pleasant honte to net the ladder stone. After a standard joseki and trading some solid moves I played a checking extension which he ignored to grab a load of points. I then invaded to take his base and he tenukid again to grab another corner. The problem was it wasn't so easy to kill the resulting heavy wall, nor to make profit from attacking. We had a ko in which I ignored his local threat to make 1 eye, and his group was almost dead but with a little escape aji. Under time pressure I made a blunder, he didn't punish but ran away and then I fixed the blunder in a bad way. I then surrounded some centre points, and was probably still ahead but didn't have time to count. Then as I was feeling depressed I played an absurd fake tesuji to either gain a few points or let him into my centre with a double ponnuki and try to kill it, he called my bluff and I went out in a blaze of glory/idiocy. I shouldn't do that.




More detailed review. My potential biggest mistakes/questions highlighted:
- :w12: as kosumi seemed a bit odd to me, particularly as I played the hanging not solid connection so the attach is less powerful because he gets an atari. One-space jump is normal, or 2-space current fashion seems possible, or knight's move. Or peep.
- :b15: answer high or low? I think pincer is inappropriate, but maybe not as his kosumi is high not the one-point jump so if he takes the corner and I play 3rd line on the top afterwards then it feels a bit sad, but that top wouldn't be territory either which is sad. My original plan was to play low (high makes it too easy for him to 3-3 or later come in side) and then make the low shimari if he extends to k17 (I figured k17 was better balance with the kosumi and makes invading harder). It feels rather low to play 2 3rd line moves like that and I would expect as a kyu player to get told off for doing so in the KTL, but something I've noticed in pro games is they are quite happy to play 2 low moves like this to be solid these days. For example Ke Jie made the low shimari with the knight's move and k16 shape in the Bailing cup semi-final 2 years ago: http://ps.waltheri.net/database/game/70043/ (move 48 amazing tesuji btw).
- :b17: As white played high rather than low on top I had second thoughts about the low or high shimari (it feels rather "meh, what next?") and his k16 made invading easier and bigger, I have both ladders, and I like to invade (compare h3 my last Euro Teams game). Is it ok? The game result was great, but he could have played better.
- :w26: surely big mistake, as I have ladder of game. Should either m18 in which case I probably L14 in sente, he fixes top and then I can tenuki or thickly connect across to corner. Or is L14 cut and then extend possible: it breaks my ladder of the 2 stones but I imagine I can find some miai.
- :w30: rather small profit for the ladder, and makes kosumi inefficient: could have peeped here instead of kosumi. Maybe L14 cut to make a mess instead? Although white got some profit, I solidified my side too.
- :b37: felt very happy to defend here (it sets up a net to capture laddered stone).
- :b39: Thought about a pincer (probably 1 or 2 space high), but decided to grab some points.
- :w42: I expected hanging connection so he could extend one more space and then r12 is not a possibly good point for me in the future.
- :w46: surprised me, isn't it slow?
- :b51: Not a move I would have played a year or two ago, but I've seen this shape in pro games. Is it slow, or good power building? L11 has a problem with k12 peep and then net of j16 fails. I could tenuki but then he can press or squeeze my liberties. Maybe c4? I think I can tenuki my corner and treat p18/r12 as miai.
- :w52: suprised me again, did he really worry about his group if I connect here? Yes it does leave some follow-up at 3-3 too, but not I didn't feel so bad about my possibly slow previous move.
- :b59: Probably this is too slow. It means I can cut off p2, and I didn't like o5 jump because then p2 still exists but that would at least give me a more powerful attack on the right group if he keeps tenuki-ing as in the game.
- :b61: Big decision time. Should I c4 or c3 instead? I did think he might tenuki again to the corner after the threatened invasion and it's not clear how to kill or attack for profit the resulting wall.
- :b69 I couldn't decide whether/how to attack or try to surround centre. After the game he said he felt bad now, but I don't think this move is so amazing as he still has miai to enter the centre from above or below.
- :b71: Go for some attack. It's funny: I thought should I m4 first and probably he doesn't defend his group and allow l3 because that would be inconsistent with his "grab points and leave a hard to attack weak group" strategy but didn't as figured aji keshi. But as it turns out that would have helped in the kill.
- :b75: n9 also possible for compromise.
- :b83: I hadn't anticipated ko, but decided to ignore once I found t8 tesuji.
- :b111: maybe I should m4 and let him live? Of course he didn't need to offer me this chance to compromise.
-:b113: big whoopsie, I knew his following tesuji when planning sequences a few moves ago but was distracted.
- :b117: Lucky he backed off to escape out (though it does worsen r17 aji), but m4 much better fix with follow-up damage.
- :b123: probably not the biggest move, but I had to play something like 15 stones in 1 minute around here, hence the blitzy rubbish.
- :w132: etc, sad that he fixed corner in sente. my 133 should peep corner first from a technical point of view, but he's so thick on lower side it's unlikely to ever be used and he still gets a5 sente.
- :b155: OMG this is so awful! I didn't have time to count, but figured despite all the disasters I could still be winning. However I was upset and went crazy. It's irrational. My decision making under pressure sucks. I was even pretty sure I'd read how he can live inside but still played this, it's like I want to lose. Why oh why do I do this?


This post by Uberdude was liked by: dust
Top
 Profile  
 
Offline
 Post subject: Re: Uberdude's journal
Post #16 Posted: Wed Nov 02, 2016 9:46 am 
Dies in gote

Posts: 22
Liked others: 54
Was liked: 5
The British Go players' synopses of their pandanet games used to be a source of much unintended hilarity for connoisseurs of Alan Partridge style reporting. Unfortunately these players have become somewhat more self-aware over the years.

Just for fun, here's my version of a template synopsis from the golden era:


My professional opponent seemed unfamiliar with the latest thinking on the mini-chinese fuseki, and by move 25 I calculated i'd drawn ahead by komi. Whilst motoring even further ahead by about 15- 20 points in the middle-game, my usual complacency set in. My opponent made a last-ditch attempt to turn round a lost game by threatening to cut my large central group, and - fatally distracted - I temporarily forgot the 17 move sequence which I'd already read protected against the cut. Despondency then set in and I somehow managed to achieve the unlikely result on dying on both sides, and losing two secure corner groups.

A shame to lose a completely won game, but full credit must go to my opponent for not giving up and taking advantage of a silly mistake to snatch victory from the jaws of defeat.


This post by dust was liked by: Bill Spight
Top
 Profile  
 
Offline
 Post subject: Re: Uberdude's journal
Post #17 Posted: Sat Nov 12, 2016 3:20 pm 
Dies with sente

Posts: 124
Liked others: 10
Was liked: 128
Rank: UK 2d Dec15
KGS: mathmo 4d
IGS: mathmo 4d
if you don't know about leelabot 4d already, I highly recommend it for reviewing games. It uses monte carlo simulation, with 1 neural network (policy), and is free since april.

I made an account for it on kgs, and running on my laptop, it is already 5d.

It has serious issues with life and death (it thinks dead groups are alive, but if it tries to kill you, you are probably dead), and capture races - it's reading isn't great, and it may play out ladders that fail. Like alphago, it has a preference for settling a position. But such weaknesses just means its global judgement is very good. It values the centre more than most, and it is beautiful to watch a game where it sacrifices 3 side groups in quick succession just to build a massive centre.

I find watching it has opened my mind to more ideas, I am less dismissive of unusual moves, and appreciate that there are more good moves per position than I can see. I like to use it to analysis openings - direction, and when to fight - it is very sensitive to aji. But not so interested in its poor endgame.

I have used it to add notes to one of your games: simulation number (usually in the millions), and winning probability for a selection of moves. Up to 116

hope it's useful/interesting



Attachments:
Uberdude.sgf [10.45 KiB]
Downloaded 332 times

This post by dhu163 was liked by 2 people: dust, Uberdude
Top
 Profile  
 
Offline
 Post subject: Re: Uberdude's journal
Post #18 Posted: Sat Nov 12, 2016 6:13 pm 
Lives in gote
User avatar

Posts: 537
Liked others: 38
Was liked: 120
Rank: 6-7k KGS
Quote:
First off I struggled to find a slow dan game

Do you put up a custom game with your preferred time controls and find that nobody accepts the challenge?

The games I put up generally have more time than most games, and it's only 20 minutes plus byo-yomi, but people accept and then mostly don't use the time. As long as people don't complain when I actually do use mine....

Top
 Profile  
 
Offline
 Post subject: Re: Uberdude's journal
Post #19 Posted: Wed Nov 16, 2016 4:31 am 
Oza

Posts: 3951
Location: Cambridge, UK
Liked others: 137
Was liked: 1936
Rank: UK 4 dan
KGS: Uberdude 4d
OGS: Uberdude 7d
Thanks for the leela analysis dhu, I had a quick look through some of the suggestions though I did keep forgetting whether coordinates were suggestions for this or the next move! The "!!!!" means current move it doesn't like though right? So for example at move 29 position your comments mean instead of my n11 turn it prefers f5 (it seems rather obsessed with this move) with 47.31 win %. Then on move 30 the comments are for black's move 31, it prefers o9 jump instead of hane, and m10 53.47 is a typo for n10 because m10 now is crazy, or was it m10 for white's last move? Will look more later.

Fedya, yes I put up an offer and also look for others'. I did get some challengers from 1 kyus but wanted to play even games.

Top
 Profile  
 
Offline
 Post subject: Re: Uberdude's journal
Post #20 Posted: Wed Nov 16, 2016 4:35 am 
Oza

Posts: 3951
Location: Cambridge, UK
Liked others: 137
Was liked: 1936
Rank: UK 4 dan
KGS: Uberdude 4d
OGS: Uberdude 7d
Just making a note of something interesting I noticed in the recent commentary on Artem's win against Sonoda Yuichi. On another thread recently I said:

Quote:
One other thing that I noticed I had a habit of doing (I think I have somewhat corrected it) was making overly honte net capture of a cutting stone in some big wall I would make after my opponent invaded and took some territory. Often being gote was a problem: I thought I was being "professional" and playing honte, but actually it was slow. I say "actually" with a little caution because maybe my reviewer was wrong (or it not wrong, the position was not so clear cut). Probably quite a few of those reviews were from Guo Juan 5p, who is undoubtedly very strong, but not a top pro (though does admit when she doesn't know some things), though I think some others were from Matthew Macfadyen 6d who probably has a rather overplayish and not honte-when-you-should style. Anyway the point I took away from these sort of positions is I didn't need to defend against some cutting stone plastered against my big wall from running away when such running would start a hugely advantageous fight for me. Of course as the board develops the balance of the fight might change and I might need to come back later.


One of Artem's moves that came in for criticism was exactly this sort of too slow honte net (of lower right cutting stone), he should have pressed like in the diagram (Sonoda got the correct direction and answered the net with jumping out to left of 3):
Image
Var. 5: Instead of the geta 90, White should consider a more active play.


Last edited by Uberdude on Wed Nov 16, 2016 6:28 am, edited 1 time in total.
Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 51 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2, 3  Next

All times are UTC - 8 hours [ DST ]


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 2 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
Powered by phpBB © 2000, 2002, 2005, 2007 phpBB Group