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 Post subject: Re: The Story of a Loser
Post #21 Posted: Sat Jan 14, 2017 5:48 pm 
Judan

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Ian Butler wrote:
Fell out a bit with tsumego's so I should probably start that back up. It's just so tough doing them because I hardly ever get it right. Maybe I need more easy ones to start with.


Yup. The best problems are those that you get right about half the time. :)

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 Post subject: Re: The Story of a Loser
Post #22 Posted: Wed Jan 18, 2017 7:11 am 
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Reading now. Lessons in the Fundamentals of Go. Very interesting so far. Taking in one chapter a day. Learning a lot!
However, when playing games I still feel I miss good feedback.
Most things in my life I've learned myself. Go seems a bit difficult to learn on your own. So I think I need a teacher who gets to know my style and can really help me out.

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 Post subject: Re: The Story of a Loser
Post #23 Posted: Wed Jan 18, 2017 2:06 pm 
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Lessons in the Fundamentals of Go is a wonderful book, and everyone should read it, but it is written for a higher level of reader than is immediately clear. I think it is more about how to get to 1d than how to get to 10k. Don't be worried if you have trouble with the problems, and feel free to read it primarily for entertainment and inspiration at this point. If you come back to it in a year, you'll get a whole new set of benefits from it.

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 Post subject: Re: The Story of a Loser
Post #24 Posted: Fri Jan 20, 2017 10:29 am 
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Glad I'll be getting a lot of use out of it, especially later.

Just a 9x9 game I played today against a 17 kyu but I think the game shows I've grown in the game already.


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Post #25 Posted: Fri Jan 20, 2017 3:10 pm 
Judan
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Hi Ian,

:w13: W is confused. Can you find a better sequence for W.

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Post #26 Posted: Sat Jan 21, 2017 1:43 am 
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EdLee wrote:
Hi Ian,

:w13: W is confused. Can you find a better sequence for W.


Hmm how about 6-6? That way either black defends the one stone and white can attack the two stones below or black tries to capture and white wins capturing race (at least of the one stone).

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Post #27 Posted: Sat Jan 21, 2017 1:56 am 
Judan
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Hi Ian, yes, that move gives W Miai of capturing either the lone stone or the 2 stones.

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 Post subject: Re: The Story of a Loser
Post #28 Posted: Sat Jan 21, 2017 6:34 am 
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Black has better choices on :b38: and :b50:, too.


This post by Fedya was liked by: dfan
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 Post subject: Re: The Story of a Loser
Post #29 Posted: Sat Jan 21, 2017 10:01 am 
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Fedya wrote:
Black has better choices on :b38: and :b50:, too.


For :b38: is it one to the right?
For :b50: is it 6-8? Because I was ahead I felt it was okay, though.

Another game, another (close) win. Very nice feeling to get better.


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 Post subject: Re: The Story of a Loser
Post #30 Posted: Sun Jan 22, 2017 12:41 pm 
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Note: I'm just starting to play, too, so I'm not claiming this is right. Looking to share ideas and get feedback (esp corrections).

It seems :w22: doesn't need to be played at D2, but could be played at D8. My thinking is that D2 tries to
(a) protect stones at D1 and group at E2. But if black plays D2, white can capture at G1, so there's no need to rush.
(b) open a route into the left side for mischief. But D8 should be just as good for that b/c black at D7 needs another move to connect to friends.

Is there a better place than D8? Maybe C3 could be made into something?

Perhaps B2 as an alternative for move :w32:? I don't know if it is possible to do more in the lower left than you accomplished in the game. When I try out some variations, I get to keep a little territory in that corner, but maybe I'm not playing black correctly.

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 Post subject: Re: The Story of a Loser
Post #31 Posted: Mon Jan 23, 2017 1:03 am 
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Still in the game of post #24, there is even a much better choice for :b22:! In the game of post #29 at :w20: just capture that stone on top and declare white's victory, what were you afraid of? :b21: at F4 would not work for black (why?).

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 Post subject: Re: The Story of a Loser
Post #32 Posted: Mon Jan 23, 2017 10:43 am 
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"Watching videos is nice but honestly I believe we watch them mainly for entertainment. I can't speak for Nick Sibicky's videos but I'm guilty of watching a lot of similar style chess videos. The effect is - in my case - more than marginal. It's fun, sure, but in terms of progress it seems a huge waste of time."

Ian just a note on this comment. I think everyone is probably different in how they learn. I actually find the go videos to be extremely helpful. I've learned quite a bit from Sibicky, for example. However, most of his lectures are not pitched to people who have just started. I think there is someone making videos for your level, but I don't know the name -- although I think it was mentioned in a Sibicky video ;-)

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Post #33 Posted: Mon Jan 23, 2017 11:42 am 
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schawipp wrote:
Still in the game of post #24, there is even a much better choice for :b22:! In the game of post #29 at :w20: just capture that stone on top and declare white's victory, what were you afraid of? :b21: at F4 would not work for black (why?).


Better move for :b22: is 4-2? That way he can take me but with a takeback I can kill 4 stones and have 2 eyed group?
Game of post 29: Not sure why I didn't do that. I used to take prisoners instantly but then learned there's no rush but maybe this time I misjudged it and should've killed instantly. F4 would not work because he'd end up in a ladder if he pushed it?
Thanks for the feedback!

jgr314 wrote:
Note: I'm just starting to play, too, so I'm not claiming this is right. Looking to share ideas and get feedback (esp corrections).

It seems :w22: doesn't need to be played at D2, but could be played at D8. My thinking is that D2 tries to
(a) protect stones at D1 and group at E2. But if black plays D2, white can capture at G1, so there's no need to rush.
(b) open a route into the left side for mischief. But D8 should be just as good for that b/c black at D7 needs another move to connect to friends.

Is there a better place than D8? Maybe C3 could be made into something?

Perhaps B2 as an alternative for move :w32:? I don't know if it is possible to do more in the lower left than you accomplished in the game. When I try out some variations, I get to keep a little territory in that corner, but maybe I'm not playing black correctly.


Yes you may be right about :w22:. At the time it seemed like a good move to open up potential on the lower left. But since he went ahead on top and ended up in sente it didn't come to afwul much. Cheers for thinking about it. I find that I learn a lot from these type of thoughts after the game.


BlindGroup wrote:
"Watching videos is nice but honestly I believe we watch them mainly for entertainment. I can't speak for Nick Sibicky's videos but I'm guilty of watching a lot of similar style chess videos. The effect is - in my case - more than marginal. It's fun, sure, but in terms of progress it seems a huge waste of time."

Ian just a note on this comment. I think everyone is probably different in how they learn. I actually find the go videos to be extremely helpful. I've learned quite a bit from Sibicky, for example. However, most of his lectures are not pitched to people who have just started. I think there is someone making videos for your level, but I don't know the name -- although I think it was mentioned in a Sibicky video ;-)


Thanks a lot for your comment. It's actually a while since I watched a video now but since the last time I've gotten much better already at the game (went from 23 kyu to 21 kyu on OGS and even 20 kyu but because a time-out win against a 17 kyu so I think my level is right around 21.
I think I'll be going back to Sibicky videos when the time allows it and I'll understand much more of it now.



I've also read Fundamentals of Go. Inspirational but like some of you said here a bit above my level. Read it for enjoyment mostly.
Now I ordered 2 new books to help me improve:
- Elementary Go Series, Volume 3: Tesuji
- Graded Go Problems For Beginners - Volume Three: Intermediate Problems

Originally I wanted Graded Go Problems volume 2 but it was sold out so I'll give this a go and if it's too hard I'll keep it for later and try to get my hands on volume 2 elsewhere.

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Post #34 Posted: Mon Jan 23, 2017 1:38 pm 
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Ian Butler wrote:
Now I ordered 2 new books to help me improve:
- Elementary Go Series, Volume 3: Tesuji
- Graded Go Problems For Beginners - Volume Three: Intermediate Problems

Originally I wanted Graded Go Problems volume 2 but it was sold out so I'll give this a go and if it's too hard I'll keep it for later and try to get my hands on volume 2 elsewhere.

Volume 3 of GGPB is good for my level (4k). From looking at your games, I suggest starting with Volume 1 if you can find it. Some of it will be pretty easy, but that will build your confidence, and it will do a good job of exposing (and fixing!) the holes in your basic knowledge. I think it would be counterproductive to try to solve the problems in Volume 3 for now (although I usually recommend doing simpler problems than most do). Hopefully soon enough you will catch up to it!

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Post #35 Posted: Mon Jan 23, 2017 3:32 pm 
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dfan wrote:
Ian Butler wrote:
Now I ordered 2 new books to help me improve:
- Elementary Go Series, Volume 3: Tesuji
- Graded Go Problems For Beginners - Volume Three: Intermediate Problems

Originally I wanted Graded Go Problems volume 2 but it was sold out so I'll give this a go and if it's too hard I'll keep it for later and try to get my hands on volume 2 elsewhere.

Volume 3 of GGPB is good for my level (4k). From looking at your games, I suggest starting with Volume 1 if you can find it. Some of it will be pretty easy, but that will build your confidence, and it will do a good job of exposing (and fixing!) the holes in your basic knowledge. I think it would be counterproductive to try to solve the problems in Volume 3 for now (although I usually recommend doing simpler problems than most do). Hopefully soon enough you will catch up to it!


Hmm okay thanks. I thought it might be okay because the book said 10-20kyu and I'm nearly 20 but I'll leave it at the side for now and get my hands on volume 1 or 2.


Invited a friend who played Go a time ago but stopped playing because of lack of time and lack of interested players around him. He's better than me but it had been a very long time for him so we decided no handicap and just see what happened. It ended up as the most fun I've ever had at a game. What a close and anxious game. Mistakes on both sides, obviously, but also some very nice moves I think. The game turned into 1 big fight to decide everything. I went from a strong position to a lesser position and strong again and so on and on.
Until, from fatigue, too (we had been playing almost 1,5 hours at that point), I made the crucial mistake of :b211:
I'll analyse and review the game for myself later on. But I really wanted to share this one. Still pumped from the game. It took about two hours, too.
Quickly looking back at it, though, I made some big mistakes. Looking at the situation at around move 140 or so, I can't believe I completely lost that right bottom corner like that. All that space should've been mine :roll:

Awesome game! :cool: :D


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Post #36 Posted: Mon Jan 23, 2017 4:50 pm 
Judan
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Hi Ian,

:w14: Strange. Q3 is natural.

:b19: Solid. Did you also consider E5 ?

:b25: D8 very big: capture the 2 W stones cleanly.

:b27: Very strange. Why did you miss D8 twice ?
Re: dfan's suggestion about GGPB vol. 1.

:b31: Very, very strange. Locally, C15.
E4 is huge.

:w42: Gote. No reason to reply.

:b47: Even at this level, you should ask yourself: why ?
Look at the whole board. Why are you playing a 0.5 point move now ?! :)
Other than obvious mistakes ( such as other first-line moves, or clearly nonsense moves ),
almost anything else is bigger than :b47: ! :)

:b25: , :b27: , :b33: , :b43: , :b47: Bill uses a term Follow-itis --
to blindly follow our opponent's moves,
without considering the whole board and deciding for ourselves what's the biggest move.

One of the biggest problems shown in this game. :)

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Post #37 Posted: Mon Jan 23, 2017 5:27 pm 
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Ian Butler wrote:
dfan wrote:
Volume 3 of GGPB is good for my level (4k). From looking at your games, I suggest starting with Volume 1 if you can find it. Some of it will be pretty easy, but that will build your confidence, and it will do a good job of exposing (and fixing!) the holes in your basic knowledge. I think it would be counterproductive to try to solve the problems in Volume 3 for now (although I usually recommend doing simpler problems than most do). Hopefully soon enough you will catch up to it!

Hmm okay thanks. I thought it might be okay because the book said 10-20kyu and I'm nearly 20 but I'll leave it at the side for now and get my hands on volume 1 or 2.

Yeah, the suggested ranks on the GGPB books are famously ludicrous, which is unfortunate. I'd say the ranges for the four books should be something more like 30-20k, 20-10k, 10-6k, and 5k-1k.

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Post #38 Posted: Tue Jan 24, 2017 1:43 am 
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Ian Butler wrote:
schawipp wrote:
Still in the game of post #24, there is even a much better choice for :b22:! In the game of post #29 at :w20: just capture that stone on top and declare white's victory, what were you afraid of? :b21: at F4 would not work for black (why?).
Better move for :b22: is 4-2? That way he can take me but with a takeback I can kill 4 stones and have 2 eyed group?
Well, the black group spanning around all over the board shall be pretty safe even after the game move. The effect of :b22: one field below would be that

- (i) it is bigger in points (white can no more easily extend further to the left) and
- (ii) it weakens the lower right white corner stones - i.e. it would possibly provoke w to make a defensive move there, letting you the initiative (which is big, especially on 9x9)

The point is - if you start recognizing those snapback shapes automatically - it will always give you some advantage in such situations which finally would make you climb several stones upwards.

Ian Butler wrote:
F4 would not work because he'd end up in a ladder if he pushed it?
Agreed. ;-)

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 Post subject: Re: The Story of a Loser
Post #39 Posted: Fri Jan 27, 2017 3:53 pm 
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Had the privilege of playing a former 6-dan (now still 4-5 dan) player. Real impressive, unbelievable.
Meanwhile I'm reading in the Tesuji book. Problems are solveable, some are a bit too hard, though.

Played some more games and it's getting better. Lost from a 14 kyu player (19x19) but only one and a half point so fairly close (though at times he suggested direction of play for me) but still a good game.
Another game against a 20 kyu (9x9) went quite well. Made some mistakes but never gave up and recognized a dead form and took advantage. I'll post that one below.


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 Post subject: Re: The Story of a Loser
Post #40 Posted: Mon Feb 20, 2017 7:49 am 
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From the game in post #39, some ideas/questions:
:b21: play at G3, the lower right 3-3 point instead? The idea is to start occupying the corner and get ready for the fight in that area. My thinking is that B5 isn't necessary then b/c you already have superior forces in that area.

:b27: and :b29: you can see that you got caught in a ladder, so needed a different move at :b27: to save those stones. I think your actual play at :b27: was good (seal white into right side, start claiming the left corner), but then you could have played :b29: elsewhere, rather than adding to your loses. I'm guessing a stone in the bottom left is necessary, but I'm not sure where. What about E4, white either takes at H3 or connects at F2, then you play E2 sealing him out of that corner?

:b31: is this better at E2, or does that exchange help secure the corner for black?

:w52:, :w54:, :w56:, or :w58: should have been played at E9 to save all the stones on the top. Alternatively, black could have played E9 earlier.

:b57: this cost you three stones of your own and the capture of the other large chunk of whites on the top left. If the corner had been open, you would have had an extra liberty to defend when cut at B7.

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