It is currently Thu Mar 28, 2024 3:38 pm

All times are UTC - 8 hours [ DST ]




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 161 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2, 3, 4, 5 ... 9  Next
Author Message
Offline
 Post subject: Robert Jasiek's Go Theory Research
Post #1 Posted: Sat Feb 02, 2013 6:58 am 
Judan

Posts: 6087
Liked others: 0
Was liked: 786
Due to several requests for on overview, here it is. The overview on Robert Jasiek's go theory research is available in greater detail here:

http://home.snafu.de/jasiek/RobertJasie ... earch.html
Message-ID: <hf3qg81qcdcfnl5e9hi4bthhri1oeovt0e@4ax.com>

**************************************************************************

Abbreviations

[I] = invention
[W] = first or probably first to write down clearly verbal knowledge
in English, German or possibly world literature
[G] = general knowledge stated as principle, procedure, method, definition, rule or ruleset
[C] = invented general major concept
[T] = theorem and proof

**************************************************************************

The Most Important Inventions for Players

- Direct connection, indirect connection [IWG]
- Influence stone difference [ICG], mobility [IWCG]
- Re-definition of two-eye-formation [IG]
- Definition of stability [ICG]
- Classification of regions [IWG]
- Definition of current territory [ICG] [there was the predecessor Cho Chikun]
- Generalised connection (n-connected) [ICG]
- Generalised life (n-alive) [ICG]
- General definition of influence [ICG] (informal and formal
versions; degrees and evaluation)
- General definition of thickness [ICG] (informal and formal
versions; degrees and evaluation)
- Method of value evaluation of all josekis, except those with global (ko or semeai) fights [ICG]
- New Semeai Formula [IG]
- Ko and dame endgames under area scoring [IWGT]

**************************************************************************

The Most Important Inventions for Advance of Go Theory

- General definition of ko, regardless of position and ruleset [IG]
- General definition of influence [ICG] (informal and formal
versions; degrees and evaluation)
- General definition of thickness [ICG] (informal and formal
versions; degrees and evaluation)
- Capturable-1, local-2, capturable-2 [IG]
- Alive in Japanese 2003 Rules equals alive in World Amateur Go Championship Rules model [IT] [Jasiek conjecture, Chris Dams proof]
- Method of value evaluation of all josekis, except those with global (ko or semeai) fights [ICG]
- New Semeai Formula [IG]
- Re-definition of strategy, hypothetical-strategy, force, prevent [IWG] [there were the predecessors Bernd Gramlich and Robert Pauli and also researchers of mathematics or abstract games]
- Generalised connection (n-connected) [ICG]
- Generalised life (n-alive) [ICG]
- General classification and definition of basic-ko types, regardless of position and ruleset [IG]
- Generalised territory (n-territory) [ICG]
- Influence stone difference [ICG]

**************************************************************************

Other Major Inventions for Advance of Go Theory

Concepts

- Definition of stability [ICG]
- Mobility [IWCG]
- Definition of current territory [ICG] [there was the predecessor Cho Chikun]
- Classification of regions [IWG]

Terms

- Direct connection, indirect connection [IWG]
- Mobility: 4 terms (mobility / usefulness count / difference) [ICG]

Definitions

- Definition of [the scoring term] region [IG]
- Definition of [the scoring term] territory [IG]
- Definition of [the scoring term] group [IG]
- Definition of independently-alive [IG]
- Definition of in-seki, seki [IG]
- Definition of dame [IG]
- Definition of eye-point, eye, eye-space [IG] [there were
predecessors]
- Re-definition of two-eye-formation [IG]

Strategy

- Ko and dame endgames under area scoring [IWGT]

Theorems

- Cycle Law [IT]
- Prisoner counting for stone scoring [IT]

Ruleset

- Japanese 2003 Rules [IG]

**************************************************************************

Other Inventions

Terms

- Answer-strategy, answer-force [IG]
- Virtual-force [IG] [there is a related term by other
researchers]
- Fighting liberties [IG]
- Territory efficiency) [IG]

Definitions

- Definition of investment [ICG]
- Definition of external / internal ko [IG]
- Preliminary definitions of pass-fights [IG]
- Definition of semeai-eye, stable / unstable eye, strong / weak eye [IG]

Theorems

- No frequent pass-fights under Ikeda Territory I Rules [IT]
- Ko and dame endgames under Ikeda Territory I Rules [IGT]

Principles and other Methods

- Empty corners during the middle game: 4 principles [IG]
- Positional judgement: 2 procedures [IG], 2 principles [IG]
- Unsettled Group Average [IWGT] [there were predecessors among CGT endgame researchers]
- Local positional judgement: 4 methods [IG]
- Global positional judgement: 2 aspects [IG]
- Extensions, checking extensions: 1 principle (gap from wall) [IG]

Classification

- 6 classes of basic capturing races [IG]
- Complete study of 93 cases of basic capturing races [IWG]
- Functional classification of josekis [IG]
- Value classification of josekis [IG]
- Classification of strategic lines [IG]
- Classification of group meanings [IG]
- Classification of every move type and meaning occurring in joseki [IG]

Rules, Rulesets and Commentaries

- Fixed-ko-rule [IG]
- Simplified Japanese Rules [IG]
- Simplified World Mind Sports Games Rules [IG]
- Commentaries on Ing Ko Rules [IG]
- Commentaries on Japanese 1989 Rules [IG]
- Commentaries on World Amateur Go Championship Rules [IG]
- Commentaries on Verbal Japanese Rules [IG]

**************************************************************************

All Research Sorted by Topic

Strategy

- Re-definition of strategy, hypothetical-strategy, force, prevent [IWG] [there were the predecessors Bernd Gramlich and Robert Pauli and also researchers of mathematics or abstract games]
- Answer-strategy, answer-force [IG]
- Virtual-force [IG] [there is a related term by other
researchers]
- Strategic planning: 4 methods [WG]
- 3 other definitions [IWCG]
- Other related research [IGT]

Strategic Concepts

- Connection: 2 principles [IG], 6 principles [WG]
- Generalised connection (n-connected): 1 definition [ICG]
- Cut: 16 principles [WG]
- Generalised life (n-alive): 1 definition [ICG]
- Generalised territory (n-territory): 1 definition [ICG], 1
derived definition (half territory) [ICG]
- Gote and sente: 4 re-definitions [IG], 4 principles [WG]
- Efficiency: 1 definition (territory efficiency) [IG], 2
principles [WG]
- General definition of influence [ICG] (informal and formal
versions; degrees and evaluation)
- General definition of thickness [ICG] (informal and formal
versions; degrees and evaluation)
- Thickness: 12 principles [WG], 6 definitions
- Definition of stability [ICG]
- Urgency: 4 principles [WG]
- Definition of investment [ICG]
- Investment: 9 principles [WG]
- Playing elsewhere: 14 principles [WG], 1 method [IG]
- Mobility [IWCG]
- Mobility: 4 terms (mobility / usefulness count / difference) [ICG], 6 principles [IG]
- Influence stone difference [ICG]
- Forcing: 3 principles [WG]
- Timing: 1 principle [IG], 16 principles [WG]
- Attack + defense: 4 principles [WG]
- Ko: 1 principle [WG]
- Other definitions of strategic concepts

Shapes

- Pendulum Ko [IG]
- A new type of double ko [IG]
- Infamous Ko [WG]
- 1 joseki [IG]
- 2 principles [WG]

Ko and Other Restrictions

- Default Restriction Rules [IG]
- Local-ko-intersection [IG]
- Global-ko-intersection [IG]
- General definition of ko, regardless of position and ruleset [IG]
- General classification and definition of basic-ko types, regardless of position and ruleset [IG]
- Dead Ko [IWG]
- Closed Death [IG]
- Semi-stable Ko and its variants [IWG]
- Definition of external / internal ko [IG]
- Preliminary definitions of pass-fights [IG]
- No frequent pass-fights under Ikeda Territory I Rules [IT]
- Various other ko research [IGT]
- 1 principle [WG]

Opening and Middle Game

- 14 principles [WG]

Middle Game

- Empty corners during the middle game: 4 principles [IG], 2
principles [WG]
- 2 principles [WG]

Endgame and Boundary Play

- Ko and dame endgames under area scoring [IWGT]
- Ko and dame endgames under Ikeda Territory I Rules [IGT]
- Related terms [IG]
- 9 principles [WG]

Fighting

- 19 principles [WG]

Perception

- 4 principles [WG]

Psychology

- 8 principles [WG]

Reading and Move Decision

- Local Move Selection [WG]
- 5 principles [WG]

Fundamental Terms

- Prisoner-difference [WG]
- Locale [WG]

Analysis Methods and Positional Judgement

- Definition of current territory [ICG] [there was the predecessor Cho Chikun]
- Definition of quiet group, quiet position [IWG] [there were
predecessors among computer-go researchers]
- Positional judgement: 2 procedures [IG], 1 procedure [WG], 2
principles [IG], 25 principles [WG]
- Unsettled Group Average [IWGT] [there were predecessors among CGT endgame researchers]
- Local positional judgement: 4 methods [IG]
- Global positional judgement: 2 aspects [IG]
- Tewari: 3 principles [WG]
- Classification of groups [WG]
- Classification of regions [IWG]
- Nature of reduction sequences: 7 principles [IG], 7 principles [WG]
- Other definitions [WG]

Capturing Races

- New Semeai Formula [IG]
- 6 classes of basic capturing races [IG]
- Complete study of 93 cases of basic capturing races [IWG]
- Re-definition of 5 types of basic capturing races [IWG] [there was the predecessor Richard Hunter]
- Fighting liberties [IG]
- Definition of semeai-eye, stable / unstable eye, strong / weak eye [IG]
- Characterisation of strong semeai-eyes [IWG]
- Many principles [IWG]
- Correction of 6 kinds of mistakes in literature [I]

Joseki

- Functional classification of josekis [IG]
- Value classification of josekis [IG]
- Method of value evaluation of all josekis, except those with global (ko or semeai) fights [ICG]
- Application to ca. 400 josekis [IG]
- Classification of strategic lines [IG]
- Classification of group meanings [IG]
- Strategic choices: 2 principles [IG], 53 principles [WG]
- Joseki structure by their strategic choices [WG]
- Various other definitions [IWG]
- 4 other principles [WG]

Move Types and Meanings

- Classification of every move type and meaning occurring in joseki [IG]
- Various definitions of move types [WG]
- Corner enclosures: 6 principles [WG]
- Corner approach moves: 26 principles [WG]
- Joseki pincers: 16 principles [WG]
- Direct connection, indirect connection: 2 definitions [IWG]
- Direct capture, indirect capture: 2 definitions [IG], 13 principles [WG]
- Thick shapes: 16 terms [WG]
- Light shapes: 4 principles [WG], 1 term [WG]
- Creating possibilities: 2 principles [WG], 10 terms [WG]
- Eliminating possibilites: 4 principles [WG]
- Sacrifice: 10 principles [WG]
- Proto-group: 1 definition [IG]
- Development: 3 principles [WG], 4 terms [WG]
- Extensions, checking extensions: 1 principle (gap from wall) [IG], 10 principles [WG]

Life + Death and Scoring

- Local-1 [WG]
- Capturable-1, local-2, capturable-2 [IG]
- Definition of [the scoring term] region [IG]
- Definition of [the scoring term] territory [IG]
- Definition of [the scoring term] group [IG]
- Definition of independently-alive [IG]
- Definition of in-seki, seki [IG]
- Definition of dame [IG]
- Definition of eye-point, eye, eye-space [IG] [there were predecessors]
- Re-definition of two-eye-formation [IG]
- 5 principles [WG]
- Other related terms [IWG]

Rules

- Cycle Law [IT]
- Komi and score parity [WT]
- Prisoner counting for stone scoring [IT]
- Filling solid territory [T] [Berlekamp draft, Jasiek final]
- Alive in Japanese 2003 Rules equals alive in World Amateur Go Championship Rules model [IT] [Jasiek conjecture, Chris Dams proof]
- Simple Rules [WG]
- Simplified World Mind Sports Games Rules [IG]
- Japanese 2003 Rules [IG]
- Simplified Japanese Rules [IG]
- Multi-player Go Rules [WG]
- Fixed-ko-rule [IG]
- Natural Situational Superko [IWG]
- Commentaries on Ing Ko Rules [IG]
- Commentaries on Japanese 1989 Rules [IG]
- Commentaries on World Amateur Go Championship Rules [IG]
- Commentaries on Verbal Japanese Rules [IG]
- Solution for the World Mind Sports Games 2008 Rules' Supplementary Ko Rule [IG]
- Various other rules or rulesets [IWG]
- Various other commentaries on rules or rulesets [IWG]
- Countless other rules research or contributions [IWGT]


This post by RobertJasiek was liked by: Samura
Top
 Profile  
 
Offline
 Post subject: Re: Robert Jasiek's Go Theory Research
Post #2 Posted: Sat Feb 02, 2013 7:37 am 
Lives with ko

Posts: 289
Liked others: 7
Was liked: 42
Rank: 100
GD Posts: 100
Why post this thread? There is no content, just a bunch of boasts that are clearly going to cause arguments here.

Top
 Profile  
 
Offline
 Post subject: Re: Robert Jasiek's Go Theory Research
Post #3 Posted: Sat Feb 02, 2013 9:04 am 
Gosei
User avatar

Posts: 1581
Location: Hong Kong
Liked others: 54
Was liked: 544
GD Posts: 1292
This is RJ's study journal thread. He can enter his thoughts on go just like other members do with their own study journals on L19.

_________________
http://tchan001.wordpress.com
A blog on Asian go books, go sightings, and interesting tidbits
Go is such a beautiful game.


This post by tchan001 was liked by 8 people: Bonobo, gasana, Joaz Banbeck, lovelove, Phelan, quantumf, SoDesuNe, topazg
Top
 Profile  
 
Offline
 Post subject: Re: Robert Jasiek's Go Theory Research
Post #4 Posted: Sat Feb 02, 2013 10:03 am 
Lives with ko

Posts: 289
Liked others: 7
Was liked: 42
Rank: 100
GD Posts: 100
Yes, that's why I asked RJ.

Top
 Profile  
 
Offline
 Post subject: Re: Robert Jasiek's Go Theory Research
Post #5 Posted: Sat Feb 02, 2013 10:25 am 
Judan
User avatar

Posts: 5539
Location: Banbeck Vale
Liked others: 1103
Was liked: 1456
Rank: 1D AGA
GD Posts: 1512
Kaya handle: Test
badukJr wrote:
Yes, that's why I asked RJ.

There is really no need to ask. It is his thread.

_________________
Help make L19 more organized. Make an index: https://lifein19x19.com/viewtopic.php?f=14&t=5207

Top
 Profile  
 
Offline
 Post subject: Re: Robert Jasiek's Go Theory Research
Post #6 Posted: Sat Feb 02, 2013 10:31 am 
Lives with ko

Posts: 289
Liked others: 7
Was liked: 42
Rank: 100
GD Posts: 100
Ok, so I can't ask him why, if its his own thread? If discussion isn't allowed in Study Journals, then I will take my leave.

Top
 Profile  
 
Offline
 Post subject: Re: Robert Jasiek's Go Theory Research
Post #7 Posted: Sat Feb 02, 2013 10:38 am 
Gosei
User avatar

Posts: 1810
Liked others: 490
Was liked: 365
Rank: KGS 1-dan
badukJr wrote:
Why post this thread?

RobertJasiek wrote:
Due to several requests for on overview, here it is.

_________________
My "guide" to become stronger in Go


This post by SoDesuNe was liked by 3 people: Bonobo, Phelan, topazg
Top
 Profile  
 
Offline
 Post subject: Re: Robert Jasiek's Go Theory Research
Post #8 Posted: Sat Feb 02, 2013 11:24 am 
Judan

Posts: 6087
Liked others: 0
Was liked: 786
I encourage factual discussion. Go theory is for everybody - not just for the researchers.

Top
 Profile  
 
Offline
 Post subject: Re: Robert Jasiek's Go Theory Research
Post #9 Posted: Sat Feb 02, 2013 11:44 am 
Lives with ko

Posts: 199
Liked others: 6
Was liked: 55
Rank: KGS 3 kyu
RobertJasiek wrote:
I encourage factual discussion. Go theory is for everybody - not just for the researchers.


Where can we find the papers?

Top
 Profile  
 
Offline
 Post subject: Re: Robert Jasiek's Go Theory Research
Post #10 Posted: Sat Feb 02, 2013 2:36 pm 
Judan

Posts: 6087
Liked others: 0
Was liked: 786
The papers are here:

http://home.snafu.de/jasiek/kodame.pdf
http://home.snafu.de/jasiek/ko_types.pdf
http://home.snafu.de/jasiek/external.pdf
http://home.snafu.de/jasiek/ko.pdf

Part of the webpages (especially those related to rules) are on my site,

http://home.snafu.de/jasiek/

but a few others are:

http://senseis.xmp.net/?PrisonerCountingForStoneScoring
http://senseis.xmp.net/?CycleLaw

rec.games.go is a source for many (but not all) messages, e.g.,

https://groups.google.com/forum/?fromgr ... -EwE47z-cJ
http://groups.google.com/groups/search? ... itesearch=
http://groups.google.com/groups/search? ... itesearch=

Top
 Profile  
 
Offline
 Post subject: Re: Robert Jasiek's Go Theory Research
Post #11 Posted: Sat Feb 02, 2013 11:43 pm 
Honinbo

Posts: 9545
Liked others: 1600
Was liked: 1711
KGS: Kirby
Tygem: 커비라고해
RobertJasiek wrote:
I encourage factual discussion. Go theory is for everybody - not just for the researchers.


Can you define "factual discussion"? It might help if we have a clear definition.

The "define:fact" definition from google is listed as:
Quote:
fact
/fakt/
Noun
1. A thing that is indisputably the case.
2. Information used as evidence or as part of a report or news article.


But I think that there is very little said on the forums here that is "indisputable".

Perhaps if we identify your intended definition of factual discussion, we can make sure to have it in your thread here.

_________________
be immersed

Top
 Profile  
 
Offline
 Post subject: Re: Robert Jasiek's Go Theory Research
Post #12 Posted: Sat Feb 02, 2013 11:50 pm 
Judan

Posts: 6087
Liked others: 0
Was liked: 786
"related to facts"

Top
 Profile  
 
Offline
 Post subject: Re: Robert Jasiek's Go Theory Research
Post #13 Posted: Sat Feb 02, 2013 11:50 pm 
Honinbo

Posts: 9545
Liked others: 1600
Was liked: 1711
KGS: Kirby
Tygem: 커비라고해
RobertJasiek wrote:
"related to facts"


What I'm getting at is that my definition of "facts" does not seem sufficient. What is a fact?

_________________
be immersed

Top
 Profile  
 
Offline
 Post subject: Re: Robert Jasiek's Go Theory Research
Post #14 Posted: Sun Feb 03, 2013 1:00 am 
Gosei
User avatar

Posts: 1581
Location: Hong Kong
Liked others: 54
Was liked: 544
GD Posts: 1292
I thought this is a thread about theory rather than facts :)

_________________
http://tchan001.wordpress.com
A blog on Asian go books, go sightings, and interesting tidbits
Go is such a beautiful game.

Top
 Profile  
 
Offline
 Post subject: Re: Robert Jasiek's Go Theory Research
Post #15 Posted: Sun Feb 03, 2013 2:00 am 
Judan

Posts: 6087
Liked others: 0
Was liked: 786
The thread is about
1) my go theory or my go theory research or facts established by my go theory or facts established by my go theory research,
2) questions about, discussion, application, criticism of or research beyond (1),
3) comparison of (1) to others' go theory, go theory research or facts established by go theory or facts established by go theory research,
4) other reasonably related topics.


This post by RobertJasiek was liked by: Aeneas
Top
 Profile  
 
Offline
 Post subject: Re: Robert Jasiek's Go Theory Research
Post #16 Posted: Sun Feb 03, 2013 10:16 am 
Honinbo

Posts: 9545
Liked others: 1600
Was liked: 1711
KGS: Kirby
Tygem: 커비라고해
tchan001 wrote:
I thought this is a thread about theory rather than facts :)


Perhaps, but this isn't the first time a call has been made for "factual discussion", so if we're going to say that, it seems natural to be "factual" about our definition of "factual".

The fact that this argument is kind of circular should indicate that I don't feel that "fact" is universally agreed upon.

That being said, I will exit this thread. :-)

_________________
be immersed

Top
 Profile  
 
Offline
 Post subject: Re: Robert Jasiek's Go Theory Research
Post #17 Posted: Sun Feb 03, 2013 11:01 am 
Lives in sente
User avatar

Posts: 842
Liked others: 180
Was liked: 151
Rank: 3d
GD Posts: 422
KGS: komi
Perhaps some examples:

Any number multiplied by 0 equals 0 - fact
Salt is bad for you - not a fact

Playing on the vital point of a bulky five shape reduces it to one eye - fact
Chinese pros are stronger than Japanese pros - not a fact

Top
 Profile  
 
Offline
 Post subject: Re: Robert Jasiek's Go Theory Research
Post #18 Posted: Mon Feb 04, 2013 8:16 am 
Gosei
User avatar

Posts: 2011
Location: Groningen, NL
Liked others: 202
Was liked: 1087
Rank: Dutch 4D
GD Posts: 645
Universal go server handle: herminator
As has been discussed in another thread, Robert uses the word factual as having the same meaning as the German "sachlich", which is not really correct. Perhaps a better term would be "objective".


This post by HermanHiddema was liked by: Kirby
Top
 Profile  
 
Offline
 Post subject: Re: Robert Jasiek's Go Theory Research
Post #19 Posted: Tue Feb 05, 2013 12:25 am 
Judan

Posts: 6087
Liked others: 0
Was liked: 786
In viewtopic.php?p=127304#p127304 John Fairbairn compares me to the chess book author Liu Wenzhe. Although I find it much more relevant to compare go authors or researchers with each other, every such comparison should not just count numbers of described aspects but should also take into account the effort to reveal findings.

John suggests that having a full-time research job allowed creation of more research. While there is a spark of truth in it, quite a few amateur researchers (such as in mathematics or natural sciences) did spent extraordinary amounts of time on their research. E.g., Fermat or the early Einstein (working as a patent officer third class) were such examples. At times, during my research period since about mid 1996, my time spent for research was small - at other times, it was great. E.g., creation of the Japanese 2003 Rules (and their inherent discoveries of go theory) kept me busy for 11 months every day from awakening to falling asleep (and occasionally I was doing research even in my dreams, as noticed when awakening from a dream with the solution for a problem of the previous evening).

John wonders how much go theory can still be expected for go by the kind of establishing facts in the style of Liu (if it were for go) or me. About 1/2 or 1/3 of the top level go terms are defined reasonably or very well. On the order of magnitude of 1/10 top level classifications have been given. However, both just scratch the surface because lower levels can study many more details and, much more importantly, decision making is extraordinarily deeper. Thus, research so far is nothing compared to what it will be when, one might hope, go will be solved completely one day in the far future. John, you did not overlook that decision making is much more complex than (traditional) top level terminology and classification, didn't you?

Top
 Profile  
 
Offline
 Post subject: Re: Robert Jasiek's Go Theory Research
Post #20 Posted: Tue Feb 05, 2013 1:42 am 
Gosei

Posts: 1348
Location: Finland
Liked others: 49
Was liked: 129
Rank: FGA 7k GoR 1297
HermanHiddema wrote:
As has been discussed in another thread, Robert uses the word factual as having the same meaning as the German "sachlich", which is not really correct. Perhaps a better term would be "objective".

My (internet) dictionary gives the following translations:

sachlich -> objective, factual, functional

factual -> faktisch, auf Tatsachen beruhend, tatsächlich, sachlich

While I'm not a native speaker in either English or German, and I only understand some German (I'd like to think I understand English quite well), the way I understand "sachlich" is that it means mostly what we Finns call "asiallinen" and Swedes call "saklig" (which is, as anyone can see, of the same origin). This indeed is not really "factual" as in "based on facts" but more like "appropriate" or perhaps "correct", "objective", "to the point", "matter-of-fact".

_________________
Offending ad removed

Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 161 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2, 3, 4, 5 ... 9  Next

All times are UTC - 8 hours [ DST ]


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
Powered by phpBB © 2000, 2002, 2005, 2007 phpBB Group