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 Post subject: Game against 6d
Post #21 Posted: Thu May 30, 2019 1:22 pm 
Beginner

Posts: 16
Liked others: 1
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Rank: KGS 1d
I'm trying to get ranked on KGS so I got matched with a [?]. I've figured that he's at least my strength by move 40, and the halfway through the game I asked what was his KGS rank. He said that he's new to KGS but he's AGA 6d.

That explained why the game felt very close and why I fell completely behind after a couple very bad moves.
Overall, I think I held up very well. The highest I went percentage wise (leela zero) was at move 74, I was at 62.7%. The game was between 40 and 60% back and forth for 100 moves and then went rapidly downhill for me.

The game started this way. I start almost all of my games as black with this keimajimari and komoku. But the opponents rarely bump into me if they approach high and I attach. I thought I was about to get into an avalanche variation (I know the main variations of small and large avalanche, but not all the variations), but he decided to settle it in the modern way.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$
$$ +---------------------------------------+
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O X . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . O . O X . . |
$$ | . . . . . B . . . . . . . . O X X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ +---------------------------------------+[/go]


Luckily I have studied this opening a bit back when it was popular. I think it was after the Alphago vs Lee Sedol games. I recall many pros play this opening.

So here comes the first big decision.
I pretty much had only 2 move candidates in my head:
A - the one I saw in pro games in this potiion
B - classic shape point after bottom left joseki
C - it wasn't on my radar during the game, but I guess it could be a possible move according to the old opening theory

I chose A in this case, and Leela disagrees with me. She says B is a bit better for black (53% against 50%).

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$
$$ +---------------------------------------+
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . c . . . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . W . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . a . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . O X . . |
$$ | . . X O . . . . b , . . . O . O X . . |
$$ | . . X O O X . O . . . . . . O X X . . |
$$ | . . X X O . . . . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ +---------------------------------------+[/go]


And again I got sente. After the somewhat standard exchange on the upper right. But I thought that this exchange is better for me, because this "sabaki joseki" is generally used when black has both "wings" to his keimajimari. Which I didn't have, so I thought of it as a sente way to remove most of the corner aji (attachments to komoku) and even get a keima in.

At this point, there are several moves that I've considered:
A - standard shape point (58%)
B - a key point between A and aji at E, I think it could be playable and Leela agrees (58%)
C - I know that this exchange ends in sente, but I never know when to take it; Leela says that it's ok to play it right now (57%)
D - the move I chose; I thought that it almost encloses the side + I wanted to be a bit more cautious against an unknown opponent (54%)

Turns out my move was pretty slack, but I think it was reasonable to yield a bit against an opponent of unknown strength. In the end, it was the correct strategical call I think.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$
$$ +---------------------------------------+
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . O X . X . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . c O X X . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . O , X . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . W . . O . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . d . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . O X . . |
$$ | . . X O . . . . a , b . . O . O X . . |
$$ | . . X O O X . O . . . . . . O X X . . |
$$ | . . X X O . . . . . . . . e . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ +---------------------------------------+[/go]


Just a couple moves later white handed me sente yet again. At this point I thought to myself that perhaps white just plays out sequences from the book without much regard to the rest of the board. I think it was weird giving away sente to often, but his direction was correct regardless.

Since not that much has changed, the candidate moves are similar:
A - the good old shape point that I have been ignoring for too long (57%)
B - another good shape point on the side (55%)
C - my move (51%)

My reasoning for this move was to settle a group on the side before reducing white on the bottom. If I end in gote here and white plays something like B, I don't think it would be the end of the world for me. I would still have this floating group to aim at and white's last move would be easy to reduce.
Leela disagrees and says that bottom is the most important area. I can see why and I agree that the upper left was too early to play out.

This was my first mistake that I've recognized after the game (before reviewing with Leela).

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$
$$ +---------------------------------------+
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . O X . X . . . |
$$ | . . . O c . . . . . . . . O X X . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . O , X . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . O . . O . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O W . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . O X . . |
$$ | . . X O . . . . a , b . . O . O X . . |
$$ | . . X O O X . O . . . . . . O X X . . |
$$ | . . X X O . . . . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ +---------------------------------------+[/go]


White decided to push on top instead of blocking the corner, which is reasonable I think.
Here black has 2 choices:

A - go towards the side and give up the corner; or retain the corner if white chooses so (57%)
B - take the corner and give up the side (40%)

Since I know that both end in gote, I thought that it would be reasonable to take the corner. It was white's corner, and now white takes questionable outside influence by leaving that cut. In my mind leaving the cut there while having that group on the upper right would be a good position to play as black.
Leela disagrees, and I disagree with her. She says black needs to make one exchange at A and then come back to the corner, but this way white doesn't have a cut (but it's still peepable). I don't like that, but I can't see how it's almost a 20% difference with my variation.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$
$$ +---------------------------------------+
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . b . X . . a . . . . . O X . X . . . |
$$ | . . X O X X O . . . . . . O X X . . . |
$$ | . . . W O O . . . , . . . . O , X . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . O . . O . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . O X . . |
$$ | . . X O . . . . . , . . . O . O X . . |
$$ | . . X O O X . O . . . . . . O X X . . |
$$ | . . X X O . . . . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ +---------------------------------------+[/go]


Instead of reducing on the bottom, I decided to jump and push from the side. I thought that white would need to make a choice - defend the bottom side or keep growing the left side. He chose the latter, so I decided to play out this standard exchange and got sente here.
I was deciding only between 2 moves:
A - obvious move that removes white's base (64%)
B - a move that defends the stones on the top (42%)

This was a huge mistake in reading. I chose B because I didn't want white to cut my stones and get a good shape there, but I was very mistaken.
If white cuts at C, I can extend at B anyway and white completely collapses - if he ataris the stone then I extend at D and then white needs to run out with his stones while giving me a lot of territory on the bottom.
So A was the only move in this position. This was probably the biggest mistake in this game. It wasn't clear to me even after the game, but when I checked the variations with Leela I realized that I had a huge blind spot there, and now that the position is clear to me I can see why my move is so bad.


Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$
$$ +---------------------------------------+
$$ | . . . . X . . . . . . . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . X . X . . O . . . . . O X . X . . . |
$$ | . . X O X X O . . . . . . O X X . . . |
$$ | . . . O O O . . . , . . . . O , X . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . O . . O . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O O O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . X X d . . . . . O . X . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . O . X c . . . . . . . . O X . . |
$$ | . . X O W O X b . , . . . O . O X . . |
$$ | . . X O O X O O . . . . . . O X X . . |
$$ | . . X X O X . . . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . a . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ +---------------------------------------+[/go]


A bit later I had to make a decision:
A - get some forcing moves but at the risk of getting cut off (81%)
B - for sure disconnect white's stones while connecting myself up (53%)
I chose B because I thought that maybe I could run white's stones into his own territory and reduce white at the same time, but it didn't really work out.
I don't really know if it's a mistake in judgement or just lack of reading. Leela says that this is a mistake, but I can't really understand what could lead me to think that this is without knowing exactly how this position will play out.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$
$$ +---------------------------------------+
$$ | . . . . X . . . . . . . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . X . X . . O . . . . . O X . X . . . |
$$ | . . X O X X O . . . . . . O X X . . . |
$$ | . . . O O O . . . , . . . . O , X . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . O . . O . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O O O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . X X X a . . . . O . X . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . O W . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . O b X O X X X . . . . . O X . . |
$$ | . . X O O O X X O X . . . O . O X . . |
$$ | . . X O O X O O O . . . . . O X X . . |
$$ | . . X X O X O . . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ +---------------------------------------+[/go]


Eventually I managed to separate the bottom side, then I decided to go in, but first created some cut points with my last move.
Here I was deciding between 2 options
A - seems like an obvious reduction point and I have my stones on 2 sides to run to (53%)
B - the cutting point which I chose to create earlier, this could give me some forcing moves nearby or maybe I'll even be able to settle a group inside (54%)

I chose A and this was a mistake I regretted just a few moves later. It's one of those moments when the teachers tells you "nah, this is too deep" and then shows you exactly why. Except in this game I still didn't know my opponent's strength, but he showed me perfectly why this was too deep.

Leela's suggestions for this position are C (61%) and D (58%). I completely overlooked the shape issues at C so I never considered it in the game - it was my blind spot.
And D felt too easy on white, so I didn't consider just the jump. But in reality even D was better than what I've played.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$
$$ +---------------------------------------+
$$ | . . . . X . . . . . . . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . X . X . . O . . . . . O X . X . . . |
$$ | . . X O X X O . . . . . . O X X . . . |
$$ | . . . O O O b . . , . . . . O , X . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . O . . O . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . a . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . d . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . O , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . W . . . X . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O O O O X O O X . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . X X X . . X . O O . X . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . O O O X . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . O X X O X X X . . . . . O X . . |
$$ | . . X O O O X X O X . . . O . O X . . |
$$ | . . X O O X O O O X . . . . O X X . . |
$$ | . . X X O X O . O . . . . c . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ +---------------------------------------+[/go]


This was the stupidest move I've played. The clamp was ok and the timing was good, but for some reason I thought that this move was sente. It wasn't sente at all, and I regretted it half a second after playing it.
Leela's move is A (47%)

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$
$$ +---------------------------------------+
$$ | . . . . X . . . . . . . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . X . X . . O . . . . . O X . X . . . |
$$ | . . X O X X O . . . . . . O X X . . . |
$$ | . . . O O O . . . , . . . . O , X . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . O . . O . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . O O . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . , a B X . O , . X . X . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . O O . . X . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O O O O X O O X . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . X X X . . X . O O . X . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . O O O X . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . O X X O X X X . . . . . O X . . |
$$ | . . X O O O X X O X . . . O . O X . . |
$$ | . . X O O X O O O X . O . . O X X . . |
$$ | . . X X O X O . O . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ +---------------------------------------+[/go]


At this point I felt like I completely wasted 3 of my moves inside of white's territory. White started yose with this enormous move that both defends his stones and sets up big endgame against my corner group.
Unfortunately, for some reason, I felt a big urge to defend against this move. Not because I felt that my corner could die (it can't and I knew it), but because I thought that it would be the next big yose thing to do. I was very wrong.
I played D as a fancy way of defending against white's 2nd line peep, and it was a passing move. Does it help against a monkey jump? No. Was this the biggest thing on the board? No. Was I at a threat of being disconnected there? No. Can this move make any points later? No, the entire area is dame.
I guess you could call it a blunder, but it was really just a pass. If I played one intersection to the north, it would have changed almost literally nothing.

Leela's condidates are:
A - to try and settle inside (51%); it never occurred to me during and after the game
B - to use the cut weakness and maybe settle the group inside (45%); it was on my radar until white's descent

And C was my personal candidate for trying to pull out that shoulder hitting stone, but it's a bad and a small move.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$
$$ +---------------------------------------+
$$ | . . . . X . . . . . . . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . X . X . . O . . . . . O X . X . . . |
$$ | . . X O X X O . . . . . . O X X . . . |
$$ | . . . O O O . . . , . . . . O , X . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . O . . O . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . a . . . . . c . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . b . . . . . . O O . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . , . X X . O , O X . X . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . O O . O X . X . . . . . . |
$$ | . W O O O O X O O X X . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . X X X . . X . O O . X . . . . |
$$ | . . X d . . O O O X . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . O X X O X X X . . . . . O X . . |
$$ | . . X O O O X X O X . . . O . O X . . |
$$ | . . X O O X O O O X . O . . O X X . . |
$$ | . . X X O X O . O . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ +---------------------------------------+[/go]


I got this big sente yose in and at this point I felt that I'm behind on points. I estimated being about 10 points behind (it was a no komi game).
At this point I've played B for some big yose, but the rest of the game was just yose. Leela says to play A here (10%) and maybe try to settle inside.
Maybe Leela's idea was correct - it was a cutting point that I wanted so badly and in the end I never even played it. I looked at this cut at this point too, but I was sure there can't be anything inside anymore.

Here I asked the opponent about their rank, and during the exchange following B they told me that they're 6d AGA. So until this point I didn't know the strength yet, but I actually didn't feel like I was being "botted" either.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$
$$ +---------------------------------------+
$$ | . . . . X . . . . . . . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . X . X . . O . . . . b O X . X . . . |
$$ | . . X O X X O . . . . . . O X X . . . |
$$ | X X . O O O a . . , . . . . O , X . . |
$$ | X O O . . . . . . . . O . . O . . . . |
$$ | O W . . . . . . . . X O . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . O O . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . , . X X . O , O X . X . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . O O . O X . X . . . . . . |
$$ | . O O O O O X O O X X . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . X X X . . X . O O . X . . . . |
$$ | . . X X . . O O O X . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . O X X O X X X . . . . . O X . . |
$$ | . . X O O O X X O X . . . O . O X . . |
$$ | . . X O O X O O O X . O . . O X X . . |
$$ | . . X X O X O . O . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ +---------------------------------------+[/go]


Final result: W+25.5
Full game:



Overall I was happy to play this kind of game. I didn't really blunder, but I did make a few really bad moves. On average I think it was a quality game by me. I think my opponent went too easy on me and therefore gave me many chances to actually get ahead in the game. Unfortunately, although Leela have put a lot of faith in me throughout the game, most of the game consisted of textbook variations that I happen to know, so it looked like I'm a good opponent for white. But whenever I had to make an actual decision, it was always a mediocre one, at best.

Also as for my move at q11 (move 39), it was a right call because if I got invaded there instead I would probably get into a more difficult fight and therefore collapse even faster than I did in the game. It wouldn't have given me 100 moves to review, but instead I'd probably resign by move 65 or so.

For the good news, I've had a few good 2k-3k games on OGS recently and I almost got 1 kyu there (1.2k currently). Maybe I'll be playing a bunch of OGS 1k games for the rest of the week.


This post by jouseki was liked by: dfan
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 Post subject: New Endgame Moves
Post #22 Posted: Wed Jun 05, 2019 1:54 am 
Beginner

Posts: 16
Liked others: 1
Was liked: 9
Rank: KGS 1d
I've learned 2 new endgame moves over the last few days.

First one comes up in an extremely common shape:



The following sequence was usually happening in my games. Pretty sure it also happens in many kyu games.
White's push is sente, and then white can get 1 more point in gote by playing the wedge.



But there's a much better move. White can wedge first.
Let's see the "maximum resistance" for black.
After the following sequence, it is miai for white to connect up or to capture the stones on the bottom.



And if black takes the stone, the result is obvious:



So since the "resistance" doesn't work for black, black needs to atari from the other side.
So there comes the point of this tesuji. After white pulls back, black is left with 2 cuts.



If black defends the cut at B, then white gets to use the aji at A.
White can go in and then play the atari in sente anyway.
Normally this sequence leads nowhere, but it can lead somewhere sometimes. Or at least those are ko threats.



And if black defends the weakness, white gets a lot of aji on the outside.
The clamp at A, the cut at A, the kosumi at D or the block at C.



So with this wedge, white can gain at the very least sente. But in some games white might also squeeze out some devastating endgame sequences thanks to the amount of aji the wedge creates.

---

The second endgame move comes from an endgame tsumego I've recently solved.
Black to play:



The main line goes like this:



I personally haven't gone over all the variations, but it taught me this tesuji.
If black just plays the regular ko, then after black wins it, white can just connect in the corner. But this way black turns it into a "real" ko.
Beyond that, the nearby aji allow black to proceed without caring much about the ko, so there isn't much I can discuss.
Just another cool move to look out for in the endgame. Maybe in some games it will work.


This post by jouseki was liked by 2 people: Bill Spight, dfan
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 Post subject: Re: Breadcrumbs on the board
Post #23 Posted: Wed Jun 05, 2019 4:10 am 
Judan

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Speaking of wedges in endgame, go to move 175 in https://lifein19x19.com/viewtopic.php?p=234158#p234158, one of my British championship games last year in which we both missed a game changing wedge in a close endgame.

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 Post subject: Re: Breadcrumbs on the board
Post #24 Posted: Wed Jun 05, 2019 4:59 am 
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Uberdude wrote:
Speaking of wedges in endgame, go to move 175 in https://lifein19x19.com/viewtopic.php?p=234158#p234158, one of my British championship games last year in which we both missed a game changing wedge in a close endgame.

That's interesting. I guess I should be looking at every single 1 space jump in the endgame now. I wouldn't have considered the wedge in your game either.

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 Post subject: Re: New Endgame Moves
Post #25 Posted: Wed Jun 05, 2019 7:29 am 
Honinbo

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jouseki wrote:
If black just plays the regular ko, then after black wins it, white can just connect in the corner.


If black just plays the regular ko, then after black takes it, white can just connect in the corner. :)

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 Post subject: Re: New Endgame Moves
Post #26 Posted: Wed Jun 05, 2019 8:00 am 
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Bill Spight wrote:
jouseki wrote:
If black just plays the regular ko, then after black wins it, white can just connect in the corner.


If black just plays the regular ko, then after black takes it, white can just connect in the corner. :)


Depends, what if white is ahead by exactly 1.5? Black takes the ko (gaining one point), white connects (losing one point), black connects, black wins the game by 0.5.

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 Post subject: Re: New Endgame Moves
Post #27 Posted: Wed Jun 05, 2019 8:31 am 
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jouseki wrote:
Bill Spight wrote:
jouseki wrote:
If black just plays the regular ko, then after black wins it, white can just connect in the corner.


If black just plays the regular ko, then after black takes it, white can just connect in the corner. :)


Depends, what if white is ahead by exactly 1.5?


I get what you are saying, but you are assuming an erroneous calculation. Also, ko fights always depend upon the rest of the board. :)

Quote:
Black takes the ko (gaining one point),


By comparison with what?

Quote:
white connects (losing one point),


By comparison with what?

Quote:
black connects, black wins the game by 0.5.


Let's simplify the corner.



This shows the worst way (for White) that Black can win the ko against a stubborn White player. Now, it is possible that White has enough sufficiently large ko threats to win the ko fight. But the normal way to play the ko is for White to protect the corner after Black takes. That is, it is a sente ko. Sente kos with smaller threats are not uncommon. :)

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 Post subject: Re: New Endgame Moves
Post #28 Posted: Wed Jun 05, 2019 9:30 am 
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Bill Spight wrote:
jouseki wrote:
Depends, what if white is ahead by exactly 1.5?


I get what you are saying, but you are assuming an erroneous calculation. Also, ko fights always depend upon the rest of the board. :)



Maybe I'm not very good at the endgame to discuss this.

Bill Spight wrote:
Quote:
Black takes the ko (gaining one point),


By comparison with what?

Quote:
white connects (losing one point),


By comparison with what?


By comparison to white connecting the ko shape.
Black takes the ko first, so he starts the ko with 1 point.
If white connects the ko shape, then there's no reason to play inside once.
The difference between white connecting the ko right now and black taking the ko + white connecting inside (the scenario you explained) is 2 points. Black wins 2 points in gote in this position by my calculations. Or 1 point in sente (not connecting the ko).

Bill Spight wrote:
Quote:
black connects, black wins the game by 0.5.


Let's simplify the corner.



This shows the worst way (for White) that Black can win the ko against a stubborn White player. Now, it is possible that White has enough sufficiently large ko threats to win the ko fight. But the normal way to play the ko is for White to protect the corner after Black takes. That is, it is a sente ko. Sente kos with smaller threats are not uncommon. :)


I see what you mean. My understanding of kos is not very good because kos that matter don't come up in my games that often, 90% of the time in my games there's either a game ending ko or a 0.5 point ko.

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 Post subject: Re: New Endgame Moves
Post #29 Posted: Wed Jun 05, 2019 9:52 am 
Honinbo

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jouseki wrote:
Bill Spight wrote:
Quote:
Black takes the ko (gaining one point),


By comparison with what?

Quote:
white connects (losing one point),


By comparison with what?


By comparison to white connecting the ko shape.
Black takes the ko first, so he starts the ko with 1 point.
If white connects the ko shape, then there's no reason to play inside once.
The difference between white connecting the ko right now and black taking the ko + white connecting inside (the scenario you explained) is 2 points.


You forgot to add: And then Black connecting the ko.

There is a difference of two points between two different lines of play. (If, as I assume, you are referring to White winning the ko fight and not White playing first.) And it may be that White must win the ko fight to win the game. That's clear and correct. :)

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 Post subject: Eruption
Post #30 Posted: Mon Jun 10, 2019 10:27 am 
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Haven't played Go in a few days, almost a week. Except for the 4 handi game against a former insei, which I was winning 100% and then... blundered.
So I've been solving tsumego almost all day in the last few days, for some reason I'm very dedicated to improving my reading right now.
Decided to play on KGS a bit. It gave me 1d, but then I blundered a few times and now I'm 1k. Matched me with 2k in a no komi game as white.
I really was into reading, and luckily my opponent decided to play a fighty game as well. I'm very happy with that game.
Leela was also happy with this game, except for 1 part. I've matched a lot of moves with her (like 95% I think), and I had one very stilistic move to go over as well.

And there it goes.
I knew that I should've played B, it was my first instinct and it's the first thing that I read out.
But I decided to play A for my personal reasons. Leela disagrees with this, but I also disagree with her.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$
$$ +---------------------------------------+
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . X . O X X X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . O O . O X O O . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . X . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . a X O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . O B O O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . b . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O , . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ +---------------------------------------+[/go]


So the normal route would've been something like this.
From here I would have an option to strengthen the group on the top, to which black would probably respond at B.
To play B by myself once and then come back to the top group, but black can resist by leaning on my group by playing at A.
And then I have the follow ups at C later.



As for my move, the obvious read is this one. Black's stones are dead, but my stones on both sides aren't very strong, so I'll probably have to eventually capture the group entirely. But it's a great result nonetheless, so black can't afford it.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$
$$ +---------------------------------------+
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . X . O X X X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . O O . O X O O . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . X W X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O X O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . O X O O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O , . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ +---------------------------------------+[/go]


So this was the only logical continuation.
I got this nice triangle on the top, but I didn't feel like defending it. I was tempted at first, but then I decided that it's too small right now. If it gets attacked then I can sacrifice it as well, or follow up on my own attack elsewhere. If not, I can still use it as a foundation to get the territory on the top.

In the end, I preferred this variation because it gives me a guaranteed ponnuki. The "proper" sequence of playing atari, connecting, etc, looks good, but I really feel like this position is much easier to manage for me personally. Leela rates it as -10% (78% the other atari, 62% this atari), but in my own mind I rate this move +20% over the other one. Just because I'm more comfortable with the position it leads to.
Maybe it is indeed easy to juggle weak groups when you have leela level reading, but I don't have it, unfortunately (or maybe fortunately, mistakes are fun).



So later in the game this was the only disagreement with leela. She wanted me to play this move starting from this position (even instead of connecting) and for the next 8 moves. I personally didn't even see this move. I know that it's a shape point, but I had no idea why the timing is now to poke it and how I would follow up on it. I usually prefer to not touch this kind of aji until I'm certain of the result.
Leela here says to poke and then play the bamboo, continuing to lean on the black's group. I like this direction, but I'm not strong enough to spot it in the game yet.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$
$$ +---------------------------------------+
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . O X X O X X X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . O O X O X O O . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . X X X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O X O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . O O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . O . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X . X . a . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . X . . B . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O O O O . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O , . . X O O , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . X X . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ +---------------------------------------+[/go]


Here was my most painful mistake. I've seen the cut at A obviously (this is why I took that stone, it was sente and then black didn't defend against it too). But I wasn't sure about the semeai situation if I cut right now, so I decided to get a few outside moves first.
But did I feel extremely awful when black played B next. I felt like my jump was a waste. I was deciding between keima and the push, and I chose keima, but completely overlooked B. I legitimately felt like I made a DDK level shape mistake. I also wasn't certain that I'm comfortably ahead yet because of this tricky situation and my group kinda floating still, so I thought that if I'd lose the game, this move would be what started it. Such an awful feeling.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$
$$ +---------------------------------------+
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . O X X O X X X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . O O X O X O O . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . X X X . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . O X O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . O O . . |
$$ | . . X . X . . . . . . . . . O . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . O O O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X X X O O . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . X O O . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . O X O . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X . X a X X . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . X . X X b . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O O O O O . . W . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O , . . X O O , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . X X . X . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ +---------------------------------------+[/go]


2k KGS :scratch: :scratch: :scratch: :scratch: :scratch: :scratch: :scratch:
And he wasn't even curious why I spent a whole minute reading out whether I could hane

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$
$$ +---------------------------------------+
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . O X X O X X X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . O O X O X O O . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . X X X . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . O X O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . O O . . |
$$ | . . X . X . . . . . . . . . O . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . O O O O . . . . . . . B . . . . . . |
$$ | . X X X O O . . . O X X O . . , . . . |
$$ | . X O O . O . . . X O O O X . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . O X O O . X O X X . . . . . . |
$$ | . X . X . X X . . . X O . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . X . X X X . X O . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O O O O O . . O O O . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O , . . X O O O . X . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . X X . X X . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ +---------------------------------------+[/go]


Here's another move leela doesn't like (she wasn't even reading it out).
I was a bit concerned for my group, so I felt like it's a gateway for black's victory that I need to shut down. I was aiming at A later and I thought that if anything black would just kill off the group on the left anyway.
Leela says to play C, which I played shortly after a sequence here.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$
$$ +---------------------------------------+
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . O X X O X X X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . O O X O X O O . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . X X X . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . O X O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . O O . . |
$$ | . . X . X . . . . . . . . . O . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . W . . . . . . X X X . . . |
$$ | . O O O O . . . . X O O X O O O . . . |
$$ | . X X X O O O X X O O . O O X , . . . |
$$ | . X O O O O . O X X O O O X . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X O X O O a X O X X X X . . . . |
$$ | . X . X O X X . . O X O . O . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X X O X X X X X O . . . c . . . |
$$ | . X . O O O O O . . O O O . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O , . . X O O O . X . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . X X . X X . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ +---------------------------------------+[/go]


This move I felt like was very demonstrative of my recent improvement in reading. A few years ago I would've played at A in 0.5 seconds, but here I spent some time and figured out that black can't really cut me if I extend down. I can counter hane at B and then my connection and black's connection at C is always miai, regardless of how many times black decides to "push through".
Kind of proud of this move, although it looks like something minuscule.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$
$$ +---------------------------------------+
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . O X X O X X X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . O O X O X O O . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . X X X . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . O X O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . O . . . . . . O . O O . . |
$$ | . . X . X . O X . . . . . . O . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . O X . X . . . X X X . . . |
$$ | . O O O O . . . . X O O X O O O . . . |
$$ | . X X X O O O X X O O . O O X , . . . |
$$ | . X O O O O . O X X O O O X . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X O X O O . X O X X X X . . . . |
$$ | . X . X O X X . . O X O . O c X . . . |
$$ | . . . X X O X X X X X O . . a O W . . |
$$ | . X . O O O O O . . O O O . b . . . . |
$$ | . . O , . . X O O O . X . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . X X . X X . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ +---------------------------------------+[/go]



Full game record:

Eidogo link: http://eidogo.com/#I2c70MOV


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