Needo's Nonsense

Bki · **#41**

jlt wrote:

Needo wrote:

Using a crutch, I will have to use a program and explore all of the decision tree for that group.

I don't know if this has happened with anyone else on this forum. But, I have become a little obsessed with solving problems to the extent that I would rather do tsumego than play an actual game. I am sure this will pass.

For a small tsumego like the L group, it is possible to explore all the decision tree mentally, but for a more complicated one, nobody can do that. Here is how I proceed (I am not saying this is the best way, I am just a kyu player and have seen people solve tsumegos with much less effort than me...)

1) Try to find a reasonable move for :b1:

. It could be a move that reduces space, or reduces liberties, or that looks like a vital point, or you may recognize a known technique or a known shape...

2) Then try to find a reasonable main line :b1:

...

3) If you think that works, explore the tree a bit more. At least, look at what happens if :w2:

is played at :b3:

.

4) If your :b1:

turns out to be wrong, go back to stage 1) and try another candidate for :b1:

.

5) If none of your candidates works, then either :b1:

is not among your candidates so you must try something "unnatural", or :b1:

was among your candidates but you misread some sequence :w2:

... so you must go back to the beginning and explore the tree more thoroughly. You may want to proceed by elimination, discard first moves :b1:

that are definitely wrong so that you can concentrate on other candidates.

I object to your 2-3). It's fine to guess black's moves, but you can't really call your solution correct if you didn't check it worked against any of white's defenses. Of course, thankfully it's obvious that most of white's possibility fail to work, and often many black moves are forcing so you only really have to consider one or two of white's moves. But failing to consider all the way white can try to resist is blindly guessing and wishful thinking, not solving a problem.

As an addition to your step 4, having read out the variations for a promising but ultimately failing :b1:

can help you find better candidate moves.

jlt · **#42**

Bki wrote:

jlt wrote:

(...)
2) Then try to find a reasonable main line :b1:

...

3) If you think that works, explore the tree a bit more. At least, look at what happens if :w2:

is played at :b3:

.

I object to your 2-3). It's fine to guess black's moves, but you can't really call your solution correct if you didn't check it worked against any of white's defenses.

Sure, I agree that you should check "everything", but nobody does that when the tree has thousands of paths. Some branches are "obviously" discarded, but what you think is obvious may be wrong (otherwise you would solve every tsumego correctly).

In my point 3) I said At least, look at what happens if :w2:

is played at :b3:

.
I find that a large percentage of misreads are due forgetting to check that.

Bki · **#43**

jlt wrote:

Bki wrote:

jlt wrote:

(...)
2) Then try to find a reasonable main line :b1:

...

3) If you think that works, explore the tree a bit more. At least, look at what happens if :w2:

is played at :b3:

.

I object to your 2-3). It's fine to guess black's moves, but you can't really call your solution correct if you didn't check it worked against any of white's defenses.

Sure, I agree that you should check "everything", but nobody does that when the tree has thousands of paths. Some branches are "obviously" discarded, but what you think is obvious may be wrong (otherwise you would solve every tsumego correctly).

Most of "obvious" wrong moves are really obviously wrong though. If the last black move threaten to make two eyes in a to-live problem, or make a nakade shape in a to-kill problem, anything that doesn't answer that threat can be immediately discarded. And lot of pruning can be done with experience. If you see a L-group (or 6 in a row, or some common false eye pattern) then you stop reading that variation.

The reason we don't solve every tsumego correctly are either due to failing to find the tesuji or impatience (or self-imposed time limits).

It's true that sometime you can't read out all the plausible defenses in a reasonable time, but that simply mean that the problem is above our level for the moment, not that it is impossible.

Quote:

In my point 3) I said At least, look at what happens if :w2:

is played at :b3:

.
I find that a large percentage of misreads are due forgetting to check that.

I don't know, I think the most common misread is not noticing a shortage of liberty a few move deep within a variation

jlt · **#44**

Bki wrote:

I don't know, I think the most common misread is not noticing a shortage of liberty a few move deep within a variation

I agree that it's also a common cause of misreading. A good habit is to start by counting liberties of all chains before making any attempt.

Bill Spight · **#45**

jlt wrote:

Bki wrote:

I don't know, I think the most common misread is not noticing a shortage of liberty a few move deep within a variation

I agree that it's also a common cause of misreading. A good habit is to start by counting liberties of all chains before making any attempt.

Well worth repeating. :tmbup:

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