Hello everyone!

I've learned about go 5 months ago, by reading the Hikaru no Go mangas (like many people here, probably). They got me really interested in the game. 3 months ago, I've started playing. In my first games, my rank was about 10 kyu. In these 3 months, I started to climb up, rarely going down. I got stuck at 9k for a little while (1 month) but I kept on progressing.

As I'm writing this, I'm ranked 7th kyu on KGS. However, I don't think it represents the true level of my go. At the go club, I play 2d players with 3 handicap stones. On KGS, I literally cream 7 and 6 kyu (winning by 70 points). At least, I would... But because of experiments (that often turn out to be wrong) and some dumb mistakes (not seeing an atari on my 20 stone group), I'm at 7k. These 7k show my instinct level. I'm not reading too much, I don't have a plan or anything like that either. I just play. I don't know why, but I got trouble playing on Internet. I lack concentration, I'm not able to read, etc. That won't stop me from playing seriously only, though.

It will probably sound stupid because of my incredibly low level, but I want to become pro. I want to test myself before starting studying go intensively. If I can't become pro, I want at least to have a strong education to find a decent job. If I could make it to 2d in 1 year, I would start investing all my efforts in improving my go.

I was wondering if some of you guys out there (that already reached 2d) would have some tips for me. I'm trying to play often and I read some go books. However, since I don't have the level to review pro games, I can't do it. If you could help me in my 2d quest, it would be very nice.

Welcome!



It is very common for players to feel under-ranked. Unfortunately, it's often not true.



You might be surprised how difficult it is to stop making dumb mistakes and come up with a plan



I am not 2d (yet!), but I'd recommend posting a game in the review section of this forum, preferably one with longer time settings. Many strong players stop by to offer comments.

Will do. I'll start playing seriously and post one of my games to be reviewed. Probably filled with mistakes (I'm only a kyu player, after all) but, heh, I'm here to learn

I think there's basically two things you need: experience (play lots of games) and reading (do go problems).

Do not play "casual" games. Win every game you play ("Do, or do not. There is no try."). Start being very careful one move before you think you need to be careful.

Good luck!

PS If you played a bajillion games on KGS, it's possible for your rank to get "stuck". But if you make a new account on KGS and it still awards you 7k, it's probably better to accept what KGS tells you than what it feels like you ought to be at.

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That I'll do, sempai!



Well, right now, the graph shows that I am a rising 7th kyu. We'll see what I'll get from being serious while playing every game.

Good luck to you. I envy your enthusiasm.

Show us your true strength! If you're taking 3 stones from the 2D players, you're around my strength (though I freely admit I'm the weakest 2K on KGS ... ever). I think I'll peruse some of your games, see what kind of style you play.

If you want to see the kind of go I can play, you can look the game against OnePiece (one of my last). If we forget an incredible mistake at the end of the game, I think it was a decent game. However, still, I can do better than that. Don't look at my last games at random, you'll be laughing I'm gonna play seriously from now on, therefore, the games will show better my real level.

To add a point - if you are losing half your games, but the ones you win, you win by a large margin, that doesn't mean that you're latently a better player than someone who wins all his games by +0.5. Go is a game of inches, and knowing when to be satisfied with what you have and when you need to raise the stakes is a crucial part of a player's strength.

On the other hand, it is true that some people fetishize their KGS accounts and only play to win, while other people experiment, goof around, and play when they're tired, drunk, depressed, distracted, whatever. I think Daniel's advice is probably good, but also that you should prioritize playing a lot over winning a lot. (That is - if you're totally exhausted after a long day, losing three games before going to bed is probably better for your go than going to bed and keeping your rank unsullied.)

If you like to experiment you might also want to get into the habit of reviewing some/many/most of your games. It's not as fun as playing, of course, but it's a good way to satisfy that burning curiosity...

Just to clarify, my position is that it's "easy" to become a pro: all you have to do is always win your game. If that makes you not want to play, then it will be hard to be a pro. If that causes you to make excuses (I'm tired/he played weird/he was sandbagging/I wasn't paying attention/my roommate's music was too loud/etc) for yourself, it will be hard to be a pro.

For ordinary players, I agree with jts at least a little bit. But I think if you want to be really strong, you have to have the attitude that there is no acceptable reason for losing. Exhaustion, distraction-- those are things that affect mere mortals, and you no longer compete with mortals, you crush them-- every single time. If you want to be a pro--actually, set your goal higher: the best player in the world isn't that much better than an average pro in absolute terms--if you want to be the best, you will have to shut up and do the impossible.

Is that an extremely difficult endeavor? Yes. Will it take an amazing amount of willpower? Yes. There is just not that much room on the right-hand side of the bell curve. But that is not an acceptable excuse.

And if you feel motivated after reading this, then I think there is a chance you will succeed.

_________________
That which can be destroyed by the truth should be.
--
My (sadly neglected, but not forgotten) project: http://dailyjoseki.com

I looked at the game vs. Onepoint. A few thoughts:

53 - I think you can connect instead of capturing.

59 - This is small. The left side of the board is just waiting, and there's still a cut in the upper right.

65 - Touching a weak stone induces it to strengthen itself. You have the advantage here, you want to be attacking.

91 - This reduces your liberties and allows white to cut.

145, 147, 149 - White can make an eye here, right?

153 - I think this doesn't work when white blocks.

177 - If White connects, I don't think you can live.

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Occupy Babel!

Since you learned go only 5 months ago, IMHO you do not actually have a rank. Your attitude towards your rank is a good one.



If you want to become a pro, you should avoid playing against kyu players, except on occasion.



IMO, you have to do better than that in one year. However, if you do make dan in a year, which seems quite likely, see if you can train with a pro.

Good luck!

_________________
The Adkins Principle:
At some point, doesn't thinking have to go on?
— Winona Adkins

Visualize whirled peas.

Everything with love. Stay safe.

Good articles to read on your way to higher ranks
http://gogameguru.com/how-to-get-better-at-go/
http://www.igoindonesia.org/tutorial-go ... -hard.html (try google cache if broken)
http://tchan001.wordpress.com/2011/06/0 ... lculation/

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http://tchan001.wordpress.com
A blog on Asian go books, go sightings, and interesting tidbits
Go is such a beautiful game.

This reminds me of what Kageyama says in Lessons in the Fundamentals of Go about how professionals have learned to view everyone else as "an opponent to be beaten down and crushed".

First comment:
To make it to the top level requires an almost delusional level of self belief. To become pro is a combintation of natural ability, ambition and willpower. Ironically, natural ability isn't always critical.

The current memory world champion started out taking more than 45 minutes to memorise a single deck of cards and has the world record of well under a minute.



To succeed you need the mindset to listen to what everyone tells you and not automatically accept any advice no matter how strong the person's reputation.

Bearing in mind the above comments, I now feel obliged to make a realist's observation as someone who has played several games at the top level. Your early progression seems well short of what it would take to turn pro. One player that I know who has enough natural talent to turn pro. Progressed to 1 kyu in 5 months without a plateau and from a lot of evidence (although I haven't had time to try for myself) the KGS ranks seem a lot weaker than the live ranks at the time I am talking about.

Therefore, when you are talking about compromising your education for the sake of Go alarm bells are going off in my head (you are clearly still young). 2D is a rank that is achieved by some 6 year olds.

I would recommend that you choose a set of studies that allow you to pursue your interest and Go and let you decide at an older age whether you are good enough when you will have sufficient resources to fall back on if things go wrong. A good job will let you travel to Asia for competitions and even pay for Pros to coach you.

An example of studies might be: oriental studies: Japanese, Chinese and Korean are obvious advantages for studying Go.

Mathematics and Computer studies allow people to build computer playing programs for Go.

All of these skills could still leave you highly employable. The other thing perhaps to try is writing articles about Go when learning to play.

There is more to life than Go or any game. So make sure you don't over invest at too young an age.

Having said all this, if you truly have the attitude to make it you will dismiss all of the above advice because it doesn't take you where you want to go. So good luck.

First of all, thank you everyone for your suggestions. I barely posted 3 hours ago and, already, replies are coming from everywhere.

Thanks tchan for the links. Some very interesting articles, even though the second link seems broken.

Thanks Hyperpape for reviewing the game. I must admit I had already spotted some of you points during my own review of the game, but some comments were very helpful.

@Daniel: I wish it was that "easy" CHOI CHEOLHAN! I'LL BEAT YOU!!! :p



Then I'll work harder and get to 1 kyu in the next 2 months. I'll start reading go books, ask some strong people to teach me. No matter what it takes, I'll make it. Well... euh... almost no matter what. I still need to sleep/eat/go to school ^^



Nonononono! I wouldn't do such a thing. Even if I achieve my objective, it doesn't mean I'll turn out to be pro. I'm perfectly conscious that being pro should be my "second priority".



I think that before trying to find a job related to go, I should find something that I like doing. The fact that the job is related to go doesn't mean that I'll like it.



Stupid question... I did a little bit of research, but found no answer to it. In Hikaru no Go, they mention an age-limit of 30 years old to pass the pro exam. Is it still true? If yes, does it apply to outsiders too?



I will simply answer by quoting you: "listen to what everyone tells you" You brought some good points in your post, therefore, I should not dismiss them.

Assuming you can go to Korea and play in open tournaments with pros (and win) I don't think there is an age limit with the system Korea has right now. http://gogameguru.com/cho-insun-amateur ... go-player/

I think Japan and China have an age limit, though I'm not sure what they set the limits at. It seems to be 25 to become an insei in Japan (for westerners) according to the Nihon Ki-in's english website. http://www.nihonkiin.or.jp/english/insei.htm I don't know what the limit for actually becoming a pro is; there's probably more information on the Japanese website but my Japanese isn't good enough to find it.

In Japan you can try to become pro until you are 23 years old through the Nihon Kiin.

http://www.nihonkiin.or.jp/profile/saiyou/kishi.html

Kansai lets you try until 26 under normal circumstances or 30 for women or if you have won specific amateur tournaments.

http://www.kansaikiin.jp/kenshukishi/index.html

No specific mention is made for foreigners.

You want to become pro, but at the same time have it be a 'second priority' goal to your education? If you're genuinely serious about becoming a pro, you need to go all the way. Put aside your education, fly over to Asia, study in a professional Go academy full time, and dedicate your life to the game. I've met children much younger than you who study over 10 hours a day, are already high dan, trying to become pro. To them, this is not 'second priority'.

http://beginningpath.blogspot.com/p/study-abroad.html <- adoreme's blog has a list of Go schools if you're intrested. I've heard of a few that aren't on the list but I don't remember the names of them or have contact information for them.

You know, on second thought, I think I neglected the best possible advice: stay away from Life in 19x19! If you come back here every hour or so to read our replies and acknowledge them, you'll never make it.