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 Post subject: Re: Kirby's Study Journal
Post #1721 Posted: Tue Jun 23, 2020 7:00 pm 
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AYD game today, so I played in the evening instead of the usual time.

Again, I had a pretty simple mindset in the opening: try Uberdude's gospel.

Here's the SGF with some of my comments:

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 Post subject: Re: Kirby's Study Journal
Post #1722 Posted: Tue Jun 23, 2020 7:03 pm 
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Highlights:

Position 1
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bc
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O X O . O . . . . X . . . . X . O . |
$$ | . O O X O . . . . , . . . . X , . . . |
$$ | . O X X . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . W . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X O . . . . . , . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . X . X . . . . . X . O . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


I didn't think of the ladder in playing the above move.

Position 2
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bc
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O X O . O . . . . X . . . . X . O . |
$$ | . O O X O . . . . , . . . . X , . . . |
$$ | . O X X . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . W . . . X . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . X X O . . O X . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | X O O . O . . X . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X X O O O . X O , O O . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . X X O X X . X O . X . O . . . . . |
$$ | . . X O . O X . O . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


I was a little naive with the move above - seems risky. I think this would be less risky:
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bc
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O X O . O . . . . X . . . . X . O . |
$$ | . O O X O . . . . , . . . . X , . . . |
$$ | . O X X . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . X . W . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . X . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . X X O . . O X . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | X O O . O . . X . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X X O O O . X O , O O . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . X X O X X . X O . X . O . . . . . |
$$ | . . X O . O X . O . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Position 3
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bc
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X X . |
$$ | . O X O . O . . O O X . . . . X O O . |
$$ | . O O X O . . O X O X . X . X X . . . |
$$ | . O X X . . . O X X W . . . O . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . O . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . X . . X O . O . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X O O . O . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . X X X O . X . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . O X X O . O X . . X . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . X O O . X O X . . . . . . . . O X . |
$$ | . X X O . . O X . . . . . . . O X . . |
$$ | X O O . O . . X . . . . . . . O X . . |
$$ | . X X O O O . X O , O O . . . O O . . |
$$ | . . X X O X X . X O . X . O . . . . . |
$$ | . . X O . O X . O . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


The move above is probably a bit too risky. I should just save my group, probably:
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bc
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X X . |
$$ | . O X O . O . . O O X . . . . X O O . |
$$ | . O O X O . . O X O X . X . X X . . . |
$$ | . O X X . . . O X X . . . . O . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . O . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . W . X . . |
$$ | . . X . . X O . O . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X O O . O . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . X X X O . X . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . O X X O . O X . . X . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . X O O . X O X . . . . . . . . O X . |
$$ | . X X O . . O X . . . . . . . O X . . |
$$ | X O O . O . . X . . . . . . . O X . . |
$$ | . X X O O O . X O , O O . . . O O . . |
$$ | . . X X O X X . X O . X . O . . . . . |
$$ | . . X O . O X . O . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

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 Post subject: Re: Kirby's Study Journal
Post #1723 Posted: Tue Jun 23, 2020 7:14 pm 
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Some observations from KataGo...

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bc
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O X O . O . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . O O X O . . . . , . . . . X , . . . |
$$ | . O X X . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X , . . . . . , . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . W . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Instead of my enclosure here, it seems that it could have been a good choice to help the right side:
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bc
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O X O . O . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . O O X O . . . . , . . . . X , . . . |
$$ | . O X X . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . W . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X , . . . . . , . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Here:
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bc
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O X O . O . . . . X . . . . X . O . |
$$ | . O O X O . . . . , . . . . X , . . . |
$$ | . O X X . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X O O . . . . , . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . B X . X . . . . . X . O . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


There's maybe a ladder breaker:
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bc
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O X O . O . . . . X . . . . X . O . |
$$ | . O O X O . . . . , . . . . X , . . . |
$$ | . O X X . . . . . . . . . W . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X O O . . . . , . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . X X . X . . . . . X . O . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


So it's not bad..

Here...
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bc
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O X O . O . . . . X . . . . X . O . |
$$ | . O O X O . . . . , . . . . X , . . . |
$$ | . O X X . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . X . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . X X O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | X O O . O . . X . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X X O O O . X O , O . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . X X O X X . X O . X . O . . . . . |
$$ | . . X O . O X . O . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


It seems I'm leading - so I should just help the group on the left:
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bc
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O X O . O . . . . X . . . . X . O . |
$$ | . O O X O . . . . , . . . . X , . . . |
$$ | . O X X . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . W . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . X . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . X X O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | X O O . O . . X . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X X O O O . X O , O . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . X X O X X . X O . X . O . . . . . |
$$ | . . X O . O X . O . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Something like that.

Because later, suddenly the game was turned around:
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bc
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O X O . O . . . . X . . . . X . O . |
$$ | . O O X O . . . . , . . . . X , . . . |
$$ | . O X X . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . X . a . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . W . . . X . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . X X O . . O X . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | X O O . O . . X . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X X O O O . X O , O O . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . X X O X X . X O . X . O . . . . . |
$$ | . . X O . O X . O . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Black can play at 'a', and I'm in trouble, I guess.

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 Post subject: Re: Kirby's Study Journal
Post #1724 Posted: Sat Jun 27, 2020 1:56 pm 
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Liked others: 1536
Was liked: 1578
KGS: Kirby
Tygem: 커비라고해
Weekend game in the AYD today. I played my nemesis, boltar. A long time ago, we were like 1-1 or 2-2 in the AYD. It seemed a little even for a little while. But then either he got better or I got worse, and it's been him winning pretty much every time we play.

Again, I tried to do the "gospel" at the beginning. I screwed one part up (my first 3-3 invasion should be enclose 3-4, I think). But then I got back on track and enclosed 3-4 when he approached my 4-4.

I think it was good to be somewhat calm in the opening. And I "kind of" won. At the point where the SGF ends, his power went out, and he abandoned the game. He sent an email saying he resigned by time. So it's not really satisfying, because I can still screw the game up and lose.

My only consolation is that KataGo seems to think I'm ahead here:


So I kind of broke his winning streak against me, though, not in a fully satisfying way. I'll watch Inseong's review, now, and may post more about this game.

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 Post subject: Re: Kirby's Study Journal
Post #1725 Posted: Sat Jun 27, 2020 2:23 pm 
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Liked others: 1536
Was liked: 1578
KGS: Kirby
Tygem: 커비라고해
A couple of comments from Inseong...

Position 1
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bc
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . B . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O O O . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . X X . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Inseong said that this used to be pretty common. But it's now thought to be good for white. He said there are variations after this:
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bc
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . B O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O O O . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . X X . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


But he might make a lecture on it later.


Position 2
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bc
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . X O . . O . . . . . . . O O . . . . |
$$ | . X X O . . . . . , . . O X . X . . . |
$$ | . X O O . . . . . . . . . X . X . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . O X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . B . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . O O O . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . X X . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Inseong felt I played the move above since I was concerned about the left - it's true. But he said the top was bigger, and to play this one:
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bc
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . X O . . O . . . . . . . O O . . . . |
$$ | . X X O . . . . . , . . O X . X . . . |
$$ | . X O O . . . . . . . . . X . X . . . |
$$ | . . X B . . . . . . . . . . . O X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . O O O . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . X X . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Position 3
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bc
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . X O . . O . . . . . . . O O . . . . |
$$ | . X X O . . . . . , . . O X . X . . . |
$$ | . X O O . . . . . . . . O X . X . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . B . . O X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . O O O . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . X X . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Inseong said my move above was a turning point - that the top is too big. So he recommended doing something on the top:
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bc
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . X O . . O a . . . . . . O O . . . . |
$$ | . X X O . . b c . , . . O X . X . . . |
$$ | . X O O . . . . . . . . O X . X . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . O X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . O O O . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . X X . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Position 4
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bc
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . X O . . O . . . . . . . O O . . . . |
$$ | . X X O . . . . . , . . O X . X . . . |
$$ | . X O O . . . . . . . . O X . X . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . O O X X . O X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . W X X O . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . O O O . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . X X . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


But he said white's move here was too much. That just extending is sufficient for white to be ahead:
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bc
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . X O . . O . . . . . . . O O . . . . |
$$ | . X X O . . . . . , . . O X . X . . . |
$$ | . X O O . . . . . . . . O X . X . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . W O O X X . O X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . X X O . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . O O O . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . X X . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Position 5
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bc
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X O O . O O X . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . X O . . O X X . . . . . O O . . . . |
$$ | . X X O . O O X . X O . O X . X . . . |
$$ | . X O O . . O X O X O . O X . X . . . |
$$ | . . X X . X X X O X O O X X . O X . . |
$$ | . . . . . O X O O O X X O . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . O X . O . . X . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . O O O . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . X X . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


So after here, he said the game was "clearly good for black". And that it was "nearly over". I certainly didn't feel this way.

Position 6
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bc
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X O O . O O X . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . X O . . O X X . . . . . O O . . . . |
$$ | . X X O . O O X . X O . O X . X . . . |
$$ | . X O O . . O X O X O . O X . X . . . |
$$ | . . X X . X X X O X O O X X . O X . . |
$$ | . . . . . O X O O O X X O . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . O X . O . . X . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . B . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . O O O . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . X X . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


He said to just cut:
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bc
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X O O . O O X . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . X O . . O X X . . . . . O O . . . . |
$$ | . X X O . O O X . X O . O X . X . . . |
$$ | . X O O . . O X O X O . O X . X . . . |
$$ | . . X X . X X X O X O O X X . O X . . |
$$ | . . . . . O X O O O X X O . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . O X . O . . X . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X B . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . O O O . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . X X . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


He said the move is really big, and that it's as if black wedged and white answered like this:
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bc
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X O O . O O X . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . X O . . O X X . . . . . O O . . . . |
$$ | . X X O . O O X . X O . O X . X . . . |
$$ | . X O O . . O X O X O . O X . X . . . |
$$ | . . X X . X X X O X O O X X . O X . . |
$$ | . . . . . O X O O O X X O . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . O X . O . . X . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 2 O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 3 1 . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . O O O . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . X X . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Position 7
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bc
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X O O . O O X . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . X O . . O X X . . . . . O O . . . . |
$$ | . X X O . O O X . X O . O X . X . . . |
$$ | . X O O . . O X O X O . O X . X . . . |
$$ | . . X X . X X X O X O O X X . O X . . |
$$ | . . . . . O X O O O X X O . . . O . . |
$$ | . . X . . . O X . O . . X . . . X X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . O . . . . . . X X O O . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . O X O . O |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . X X O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O O O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . X X X O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . X . . |
$$ | . . O O O . . . . X . . . . . , . O . |
$$ | . . X X . . X . . . . . X . O X X X . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . O O X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . B . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


I was afraid white would kill black. But he said black is fine, and white is just dead:
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bc
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X O O . O O X . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . X O . . O X X . . . . . O O . . . . |
$$ | . X X O . O O X . X O . O X . X . . . |
$$ | . X O O . . O X O X O . O X . X . . . |
$$ | . . X X . X X X O X O O X X . O X . . |
$$ | . . . . . O X O O O X X O . . . O . . |
$$ | . . X . . . O X . O . . X . . . X X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . O . . . . . . X X O O . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . O X O . O |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . X X O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O O O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . X X X O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . B . O . X . . |
$$ | . . O O O . . . . X . . . . . , . O . |
$$ | . . X X . . X . . . . . X . O X X X . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . O O X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


I still haven't read all of the variations, but he said this would have just finished the game.

Position 8
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bc
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X O O . O O X . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . X O . . O X X . . . . . O O . . . . |
$$ | . X X O . O O X . X O . O X . X . . . |
$$ | . X O O . . O X O X O . O X . X . . . |
$$ | . . X X . X X X O X O O X X . O X . . |
$$ | . . . . . O X O O O X X O . . . O O . |
$$ | . . X . . X . X W O . . X . . . X X . |
$$ | . . . . . . X O X X . . . . X X O O . |
$$ | . . . , . . . O O O X . . . O X O . O |
$$ | . . O . . . . O X O X . X . . X X O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . X X O X X . O O O O . |
$$ | . . . . . . O O O X O X . X X X O X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . X X O O O X . . O X X X |
$$ | . . . . . . . . O X O O O O O X X O . |
$$ | . . O O O . . . O X X . O X X X X O . |
$$ | . . X X . . X . O X . O . O O X X X . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . X . X . O O O O O X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X X . X |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


He mentioned, and I actually saw this during the game, too, that it's not actually a ko:
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bc
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X O O . O O X . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . X O . . O X X . . . . . O O . . . . |
$$ | . X X O . O O X . X O . O X . X . . . |
$$ | . X O O . . O X O X O . O X . X . . . |
$$ | . . X X . X X X O X O O X X . O X . . |
$$ | . . . . . O X O O O X X O . . . O O . |
$$ | . . X . . X . X . O . . X . . . X X . |
$$ | . . . . . . X O X X W . . . X X O O . |
$$ | . . . , . . . O O O X . . . O X O . O |
$$ | . . O . . . . O X O X . X . . X X O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . X X O X X . O O O O . |
$$ | . . . . . . O O O X O X . X X X O X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . X X O O O X . . O X X X |
$$ | . . . . . . . . O X O O O O O X X O . |
$$ | . . O O O . . . O X X . O X X X X O . |
$$ | . . X X . . X . O X . O . O O X X X . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . X . X . O O O O O X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X X . X |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


And he said after this, it means that white had a great success - I had a total advantage on the bottom, but basically gave the game to white here.

Fortunately, after the ko variation, black still was ahead. But I didn't know this. After the game, he told me to upload it, and I asked him who was ahead.

He pointed out in the review a general statement that I'm bad at evaluating the position. He said that he thinks I've played too many games where I play a crazy move and sometimes it works and I get ahead from being behind. And likewise, sometimes I'm ahead, and I play a crazy move, and then I get behind. So he said my overall sense of judgment is wonky.

So I guess this is something I should focus on. The bottom right was a reading issue, so I should have that intuition/reading ability. But outside of that, I should get a better sense/evaluation of who is ahead. I guess it means I should count more.

_________________
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This post by Kirby was liked by 2 people: Bill Spight, skydyr
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 Post subject: Re: Kirby's Study Journal
Post #1726 Posted: Sun Jun 28, 2020 7:34 pm 
Honinbo

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I've been thinking of the assessment bit a little bit more. I found this website: http://gustav.ml/counting

When it's in an endgame situation, I don't think I'm terrible at counting, necessarily. According to that site, I can usually get the right answer in around 40~60 seconds. I could improve speed, I suppose. But I feel like there's more to evaluation than just counting.

The evaluation of whether a result is good for black or white, for example. Part of it is the territory, and part of it is something else - intuition or an idea of how a particular shape, influence, or arrangement of stones... thickness. These types of concepts are hard to encapsulate in simply counting.

What I'm aiming for is a way to isolate this evaluation sub-skill of go in some way such that I can practice it. Bill's series where the AI thinks one side is ahead or behind might be a good start. Maybe I should get some collection of problems like this, and practice them more.

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 Post subject: Re: Kirby's Study Journal
Post #1727 Posted: Mon Jun 29, 2020 9:17 am 
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Another game on Fox. I tried the gospel, again. This heretic was crazy. Maybe that's not a nice way to put it... I was surprised by some of the moves.



Biggest takeaway here, I think, is just that I was too confident and answered here too quickly:
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bc
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . X X X . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . O X O O X . . X O . . |
$$ | . . . , O . . O . O . . X . . X . O . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . O . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X . X X . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . O . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X X O . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O O . . O . O B . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | O . O X X O . X . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O X O O O . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . X X O X X X . . , . O O X . O X O . |
$$ | . . X O X O O X X X X X X . . X . X . |
$$ | . X . X O O . O O O O X . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


I wouldn't even call it a misread, because I played on instinct and didn't read it. I think it's a reminder that I need to be careful, even when I've established some confidence.

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 Post subject: Re: Kirby's Study Journal
Post #1728 Posted: Mon Jun 29, 2020 12:38 pm 
Lives in sente
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KGS: Str1fe, Midorisuke
Some exercises about position 3:

1. Suppose White gets the entire top as 3rd line territory and Black gets some whatever reduction stones. Who's ahead?

2. As above, but 4th line territory.

3. As above, but 5th line territory.

My evaluation:
My evaluation is that the game is even to slightly good for Black if White gets the whole top as 4th line territory.



Reconsider position 5 in this light. What have White and Black gained since position 3?


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Post #1729 Posted: Mon Jun 29, 2020 3:58 pm 
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Shaddy wrote:
Some exercises about position 3:

1. Suppose White gets the entire top as 3rd line territory and Black gets some whatever reduction stones. Who's ahead?

2. As above, but 4th line territory.

3. As above, but 5th line territory.

My evaluation:
My evaluation is that the game is even to slightly good for Black if White gets the whole top as 4th line territory.



Reconsider position 5 in this light. What have White and Black gained since position 3?


My evaluation is not as optimistic, and now I'm curious where my thought process differs from yours.

Here's how I'd think about it:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bc
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . C C C C C C C C C C C C C . . . |
$$ | . . O C C C C C C C C C C C C . O . . |
$$ | . X O . . O . . . . . . . O O . . . . |
$$ | C X X O . . . . . , . . O X . X . . . |
$$ | C X O O . . . . . . . . O X . X C . . |
$$ | C C X . . . . . . . . . X . . O X C . |
$$ | C C . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . W . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . W X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X C C |
$$ | . . O O O . . . . , . . . . . , . C C |
$$ | . . X X . . . . . . . . . . . X C C C |
$$ | . . C C . X . . . . . . . . . . C C C |
$$ | C C C C C . . . . . . . . . . . C C C |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


White has 25 on top + komi = 31.5 points

Black has 28 points, plus the potential to attack the marked stones.

If white has 4th line territory:
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bc
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . C C C C C C C C C C C C C . . . |
$$ | . . O C C C C C C C C C C C C . O . . |
$$ | . X O C C O C C C C C C C O O . . . . |
$$ | C X X O . . . . . , . . O X . X . . . |
$$ | C X O O . . . . . . . . O X . X C . . |
$$ | C C X . . . . . . . . . X . . O X C . |
$$ | C C . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . W . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . W X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X C C |
$$ | . . O O O . . . . , . . . . . , . C C |
$$ | . . X X . . . . . . . . . . . X C C C |
$$ | . . C C . X . . . . . . . . . . C C C |
$$ | C C C C C . . . . . . . . . . . C C C |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


White has 9 more points on top, so it'd be 40.5 points.

If it's about even or slightly good for black in this situation, that'd mean that the attack on the two white stones is worth a bit more than 40.5 - 28 = 12.5 points.

Marking the intersections as I have makes sense to me. Evaluating that extra 12.5 points is not clear to me at all...

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Post #1730 Posted: Mon Jun 29, 2020 4:45 pm 
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- The black group on the right is definitely worth more than 2 points.
- The bottom left corner will probably be Black's sente endgame, because White's weaker on the left.
- The white two stones on the right are going to be some kind of liability.
- Black has potential on the bottom and White doesn't.
- The top left corner is counted slightly better for White than it should be; if Black gets the 2-2 point, he gets 3 points and White loses 4 compared to your count; if White gets the 2-2 point she gets ... (1 1/3?) points and black loses 1.5.

The biggest thing is that the top is really all the points White is going to get this game. There'll be 5-6 points from the bottom left group, sure, but there's no other points on the board. Black has lots of areas to make more points.

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Post #1731 Posted: Mon Jun 29, 2020 5:04 pm 
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Cool... Those points seem reasonable. How many points do you think the black group on the right might be worth, if more than 2?

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Post #1732 Posted: Mon Jun 29, 2020 5:09 pm 
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I'd give it 5-6? 5 if i'm feeling pessimistic, 6 if i'm not.


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Post #1733 Posted: Tue Jun 30, 2020 4:29 pm 
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Sore throat today, so I didn't play at lunch. Also, I have an AYD game coming up in about 30 minutes anyway. Thought about canceling, but there's no guarantee my throat will be better later this week anyway. So I'll just try it.

Hopefully not COVID-19 :-p

I'll post here when the game is finished.

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Post #1734 Posted: Tue Jun 30, 2020 6:56 pm 
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All I can say is that I got lucky here. Very, very lucky. My sore throat is gone, though, so that's good. Maybe it was psychological :scratch:



Gonna go check out Inseong's review for now... Way too much risk in this game.

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Post #1735 Posted: Tue Jun 30, 2020 7:08 pm 
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Some brief thoughts, while I'm waiting for review...

Position 1
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bc
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X O . . . . . , . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . O . X . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . W . . O . . . O X . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


The marked move above feels nice to play, but maybe against gospel. I wouldn't say the bottom is an *urgent* situation, so probably I should protect the 4-4:
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bc
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X O . . . . . , . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . W . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . O . X . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . O . . O . . . O X . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Position 2
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bc
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X O X X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X O . . . . . . . . . O . . O X . |
$$ | . . X O . . . . . , . . . . . O X X . |
$$ | . O O O . . . . . . . . . . . O O X . |
$$ | . X O . . . . . . . . . . . . O X . . |
$$ | . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . O . X . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . O . . O . . . O X . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Somehow, the result in the top left seems decent for black. It's hard to say that I came out ahead there even though I played first. Not really sure what's best there.

Position 3
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bc
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X O X X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X O . . . . . . . . . O . . O X . |
$$ | . . X O . . . . . , . . . . . O X X . |
$$ | . O O O . . . . . . . . . . . O O X . |
$$ | . X O . . . . . . . . . . . . O X . . |
$$ | . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . W X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . X . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . O . X . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . O . . O . . . O X . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


I kind of regret attaching above... Maybe just jumping out is better:
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bc
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X O X X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X O . . . . . . . . . O . . O X . |
$$ | . . X O . . . . . , . . . . . O X X . |
$$ | . O O O . . . . . . . . . . . O O X . |
$$ | . X O . . . . . . . . . . . . O X . . |
$$ | . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . W . O . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . X . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . O . X . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . O . . O . . . O X . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Position 4
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bc
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X O X X . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . X O . . . . O O . X W O . . O X . |
$$ | . . X O . . . . O X . X . . . O X X . |
$$ | . O O O . . . . . . X O . O . O O X . |
$$ | . X O . . . . . . . X O . X X O X . . |
$$ | . X . . . . . . . . . O . O X . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . O O X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . O O O O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . X . X O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O X . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . O . X X . . |
$$ | . . O X . . O . . O . . . O X X O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


My bumping move above doesn't seem good. I'm not sure what's best, but this seems better:
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bc
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X O X X . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . X O . . . . O O W X . O . . O X . |
$$ | . . X O . . . . O X . X . . . O X X . |
$$ | . O O O . . . . . . X O . O . O O X . |
$$ | . X O . . . . . . . X O . X X O X . . |
$$ | . X . . . . . . . . . O . O X . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . O O X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . O O O O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . X . X O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O X . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . O . X X . . |
$$ | . . O X . . O . . O . . . O X X O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


After that, I got really lucky and killed a big group, but that was just because he didn't answer, I think.

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Post #1736 Posted: Tue Jun 30, 2020 7:18 pm 
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Skimmed through with KataGo, so I'll just focus on what appears to be the major points in the opening.

First:
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bc
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X O . . . . . , . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . O . X . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . W . . O . . . O X . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Seems true that I lost a lot with this slow move, above. Instead, one recommendation that I didn't think about is:
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bc
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X O . . . . . , . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . W . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . O . X . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . O . . . O X . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Not exactly gospel, persay, but it seems like a nice move. And it's still not continuing locally, which seems to be a big problem with the move I played.

Also, here:
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bc
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X O . . . . . . . . . O . . O X . |
$$ | . . X O . . . . . , . . . . . O X X . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . O O X . |
$$ | . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . O X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . O . X . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . O . . O . . . O X . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


One move that sticks out to KataGo didn't occur to me:
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bc
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X O . . . . . . . . . O . . O X . |
$$ | . . X O . . . . . , . . . . . O X X . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . O O X . |
$$ | . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . O X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . W . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . O . X . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . O . . O . . . O X . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


I've seen this before, but it was off my radar during the game.

Finally...
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bc
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X O . . . . . . . . . O . . O X . |
$$ | . . X O . . . . . , . . . . . O X X . |
$$ | . W . O . . . . . . . . . . . O O X . |
$$ | . X O . . . . . . . . . . . . O X . . |
$$ | . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . O . X . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . O . . O . . . O X . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


This trade seems to be a major problem. My thought is that this could sometimes work on other board positions, but here, the top is important.

Still waiting for Inseong's review. I'm last today.

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Post #1737 Posted: Tue Jun 30, 2020 8:32 pm 
Honinbo

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Inseong's review showed some of the many ways black could have easily won the game.

For me, his biggest point was this:
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bc
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X O X X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X O . . . . W . . X . O . . O X . |
$$ | . . X O . . . . . , . . . . . O X X . |
$$ | . O O O . . . . . . . . . . . O O X . |
$$ | . X O . . . . . . . . . . . . O X . . |
$$ | . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . O O X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . O O O O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . X . X O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O X . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . O . X X . . |
$$ | . . O X . . O . . O . . . O X X O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


I played the pincer because I felt behind. He agreed I was behind, but he said that I turn on this "switch" too quickly. He said to wait a little bit longer before turning that switch on. That might improve my chances that something will come my way.

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Post #1738 Posted: Wed Jul 01, 2020 9:48 am 
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Kirby wrote:
I played the pincer because I felt behind. He agreed I was behind, but he said that I turn on this "switch" too quickly. He said to wait a little bit longer before turning that switch on. That might improve my chances that something will come my way.


This is very interesting to me. It's one of my biggest problems. It's made worse by the fact that I tend to count pessimistically (give myself slightly too few and my opponent slightly to many points when counting), so sometimes I turn on that switch when I'm not even behind.

I haven't worked out yet how to psychologically prevent this. My desire not to fall into passivity is very strong!


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Post #1739 Posted: Wed Jul 01, 2020 10:14 am 
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( Hi, Graham! Welcome back. )

For me, I over estimate. I'll cruise through an even endgame, thinking that I'm ahead, then find that I lost by 3.5.

I try to compensate by fighting for every last point because I'm unsure. Then I find my opponent is offended because I piled on, fighting the 1/2 point ko when I was fifteen ahead. :oops:


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Post #1740 Posted: Wed Jul 01, 2020 11:42 am 
Honinbo

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topazg wrote:
Kirby wrote:
I played the pincer because I felt behind. He agreed I was behind, but he said that I turn on this "switch" too quickly. He said to wait a little bit longer before turning that switch on. That might improve my chances that something will come my way.


This is very interesting to me. It's one of my biggest problems. It's made worse by the fact that I tend to count pessimistically (give myself slightly too few and my opponent slightly to many points when counting), so sometimes I turn on that switch when I'm not even behind.

I haven't worked out yet how to psychologically prevent this. My desire not to fall into passivity is very strong!


As much as I hate studying endgame (actually, I don’t know why that is; I majored in math as an undergrad, and I like numbers), maybe one way to psychology beat this would be to ramp up skill in the endgame. Then, in cases where I’m behind, there may be some source of psychological confidence: “Well... you’re ahead now, but we haven’t gotten to the strong part of my game”...

Not really sure, though, because this is obviously a problem I have yet to overcome.

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