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 Post subject: Re: Kirby's Study Journal
Post #61 Posted: Sat Jun 22, 2013 9:30 pm 
Honinbo

Posts: 8744
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KGS: Kirby
Tygem: 커비라고해
I decided to change the format here a little bit. I still will comment on the games, and provide the SGF. But I'll pick a couple of positions that I felt to be "key moments" and post them as diagrams to promote discussion.

This way I still review the entire game, but can thoroughly think about positions that I thought were more challenging.

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 Post subject: Re: Kirby's Study Journal
Post #62 Posted: Sat Jun 22, 2013 9:47 pm 
Honinbo

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Was liked: 1487
KGS: Kirby
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I won this game, but I almost lost it.

Here is the game:
'; var displayText = ""; var originalDisplayText = ""; if (myVal.length > 0) { myVal = myVal.replace(/
/g, "%0D%0A"); var lineArray = myVal.split("%0D%0A"); var dollarIndex = lineArray[0].indexOf("$$"); if (dollarIndex >= 0) { var spaceIndex = lineArray[0].indexOf(" ", dollarIndex); if (spaceIndex > 0) { displayText = lineArray[0].substring(spaceIndex); originalDisplayText = displayText; displayText = displayText.replace(/\n/g, "
"); } } if (originalDisplayText != "") { myVal = myVal.replace(originalDisplayText, ""); } myVal = myVal.replace(/\s+/g, '%20'); myVal = myVal.replace(/#+/g, '%23'); myVal = myVal.replace(/&+/g, '%26'); myVal = myVal.replace(/\++/g, '%2B'); myVal = myVal.replace(/\/+/g, '%2F'); myVal = myVal.replace(/'%'+/g, '%25'); myVal = myVal.replace(/:+/g, '%3A'); myVal = myVal.replace(/;+/g, '%3B'); myVal = myVal.replace(/<+/g, '%3C'); myVal = myVal.replace(/>+/g, '%3E'); myVal = myVal.replace(/\?+/g, '%3F'); myVal = myVal.replace(/\'+/g, '%27'); myVal = myVal.replace(/\"+/g, '%22'); } document.write("
\"Go
" + displayText + "
");
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]WL[1421.402]
;B[gm]BL[1352.905]
;W[eo]WL[1415.317]C[Ah well... I guess I play on outside, and sacrifice those stones. I'm way behind now.]
;B[ho]BL[1345.821]
;W[gp]WL[1412.179]C[I hate to lose D4, though... Maybe can be useful somehow. I'll play on bottom stones first.]
;B[fr]BL[1338.303]
;W[hp]WL[1408.501]
;B[dr]BL[1334.643]
;W[cr]WL[1402.666]
;B[es]BL[1333.17]
;W[hr]WL[1398.831]
;B[ep]BL[1326.962]C[Kill corner? Seems hard. But I'll try!]
;W[cs]WL[1392.023]
;B[bk]BL[1313.115]
;W[dh]WL[1387.978]
;B[bn]BL[1307.255]
;W[cp]WL[1381.647]
;B[ar]BL[1300.619]
;W[ao]WL[1360.314]
;B[br]BL[1290.216]
;W[bs]WL[1353.947]
;B[bq]BL[1281.788]
;W[bj]WL[1338.894]
;B[ap]BL[1271.789]C[Hmm, try to kill, try to kill!]
;W[al]WL[1332.861]
;B[an]BL[1269.55]
;W[bp]WL[1296.373]
;B[ds]BL[1261.206]
;W[aq]WL[1292.41]
;B[fp]BL[1247.952]C[Threaten to kill this guy...]
;W[fo]WL[1288.366]C[Now take, and take no matter what.]
;B[ap]BL[1246.541]
;W[fj]WL[1281.395]C[Who cares, just take corner points. It's less of a loss than the corner.]
;B[as]BL[1244.122]
;W[fh]WL[1271.517]C[OK... Lots of influence for white, now. G6 is kind of useless, but at least I saved the corner. I guess I try to live small on bottom, then play from there.]
;B[fk]BL[1237.719]
;W[gj]WL[1265.949]
;B[oq]BL[1233.525]
;W[io]WL[1262.716]
;B[qq]BL[1229.002]
;W[rq]WL[1259.496]
;B[pp]BL[1227.654]
;W[qr]WL[1254.878]C[Hmm, ko? I guess I can threaten at E13...]
;B[pr]BL[1214.33]
;W[pq]WL[1252.183]
;B[eg]BL[1211.497]
;W[eh]WL[1247.986]
;B[qq]BL[1209.507]
;W[qo]WL[1244.898]
;B[rr]BL[1197.08]
;W[pq]WL[1241.483]
;B[qs]BL[1190.137]
;W[qq]WL[1237.213]
;B[nr]BL[1188.677]C[OK, just live small here, then move on.]
;W[mq]WL[1225.725]C[N2 seems weak, maybe m3?]
;B[lq]BL[1180.583]
;W[mr]WL[1217.688]
;B[lr]BL[1178.043]
;W[nq]WL[1213.193]
;B[np]BL[1173.709]
;W[mp]WL[1210.024]
;B[ms]BL[1165.936]
;W[po]WL[1194.518]
;B[mo]BL[1146.13]
;W[lp]WL[1191.169]
;B[op]BL[1134.89]
;W[kp]WL[1182.03]
;B[nn]BL[1129.964]
;W[on]WL[1177.801]C[Hmm, he can chase me and profit... There's space here to live, so let's tenuki before his attack.]
;B[qj]BL[1121.736]
;W[ql]WL[1165.257]
;B[nl]BL[1115.559]
;W[pk]WL[1161.054]
;B[qg]BL[1105.93]
;W[pj]WL[1156.326]
;B[qi]BL[1103]
;W[nj]WL[1152.508]
;B[ll]BL[1091.772]C[Live!]
;W[jl]WL[1142.661]
;B[lj]BL[1084.682]
;W[ph]WL[1131.921]
;B[qh]BL[1076.071]
;W[ji]WL[1123.618]
;B[lh]BL[1073.445]
;W[jg]WL[1112.037]
;B[jd]BL[1069.098]
;W[fd]WL[1102.179]
;B[fc]BL[1059.888]
;W[gc]WL[1097.117]
;B[ec]BL[1058.237]
;W[gd]WL[1093.807]
;B[bd]BL[1055.474]
;W[nc]WL[1088.013]
;B[oc]BL[1046.286]
;W[nd]WL[1083.959]
;B[lf]BL[1044.44]
;W[pe]WL[1079.885]
;B[qe]BL[1042.495]
;W[od]WL[1074.788]C[This exchange seems generous of him...]
;B[pc]BL[1038.425]C[Now if I live...]
;W[pf]WL[1071.131]
;B[qf]BL[1036.138]
;W[nf]WL[1067.809]
;B[ld]BL[1030.169]
;W[nb]WL[1055.066]
;B[jm]BL[1022.137]
;W[im]WL[1013.052]
;B[il]BL[981.499]
;W[jk]WL[991.666]
;B[km]BL[973.573]
;W[jn]WL[986.856]
;B[kn]BL[968.158]
;W[ko]WL[983.23]
;B[om]BL[961.129]
;W[pm]WL[979.539]
;B[pg]BL[957.164]
;W[nh]WL[972.581]
;B[og]BL[946.002]
;W[ng]WL[966.341]C[Hmm, let's try to cut him!]
;B[oi]BL[942.713]
;W[ni]WL[960.62]
;B[oj]BL[940.322]
;W[ok]WL[957.834]
;B[nk]BL[938.007]
;W[li]WL[942.56]
;B[ki]BL[927.212]
;W[mi]WL[939.797]
;B[kj]BL[903.121]C[Hmm, chips are in!]
;W[kh]WL[933.428]
;B[kg]BL[901.417]
;W[jh]WL[929.829]
;B[me]BL[893.735]
;W[ne]WL[925.816]
;B[lb]BL[881.823]
;W[mb]WL[910.397]
;B[kb]BL[870.555]
;W[jf]WL[906.409]
;B[ke]BL[857.991]
;W[jj]WL[893.366]
;B[mj]BL[852.664]
;W[ln]WL[874.333]
;B[lo]BL[831.165]
;W[mn]WL[860.115]
;B[no]BL[829.127]
;W[kl]WL[847.112]
;B[lm]BL[827.242]
;W[lk]WL[840.891]
;B[mk]BL[821.781]
;W[kk]WL[837.767]
;B[mm]BL[812.755]
;W[kf]WL[824.351]
;B[lg]BL[810.626]
;W[ic]WL[816.897]
;B[ib]BL[805.864]C[Live!]
;W[jc]WL[810.064]
;B[kc]BL[797.738]
;W[jb]WL[804.042]
;B[id]BL[795.447]
;W[hd]WL[790.062]
;B[ja]BL[790.556]
;W[hc]WL[787.097]
;B[of]BL[787.177]
;W[je]WL[781.062]
;B[ob]BL[780.187]
;W[hb]WL[770.502]
;B[na]BL[773.428]
;W[ma]WL[767.323]
;B[oa]BL[772.269]
;W[ie]WL[764.146]
;B[oe]BL[767.39]
;W[ia]WL[758.583]
;B[la]BL[760.871]
;W[kd]WL[753.303]
;B[jd]BL[759.32]
;W[id]WL[749.813]
;B[kd]BL[741.953]
;W[md]WL[736.79]
;B[mf]BL[724.721]
;W[de]WL[729.558]C[Hmm tenuki.. I guess it's seki.

Post-game thinking: Try reading...]
;B[ce]BL[721.849]
;W[ed]WL[726.296]
;B[dc]BL[717.285]
;W[cf]WL[723.545]
;B[bf]BL[714.251]
;W[ol]WL[715.793]
;B[nm]BL[711.681]
;W[kr]WL[708.765]
;B[aj]BL[688.577]C[Ok, yose...]
;W[ak]WL[700.859]
;B[am]BL[685.744]
;W[ah]WL[697.061]
;B[bl]BL[684.577]
;W[kq]WL[690.095]
;B[ls]BL[681.471]
;W[ks]WL[686.684]
;B[ns]BL[680.032]
;W[sr]WL[672.441]
;B[rs]BL[677.427]
;W[sq]WL[660.527]
;B[or]BL[671.165]
;W[rk]WL[654.944]
;B[rj]BL[668.148]
;W[fb]WL[646.422]
;B[eb]BL[666.109]
;W[ea]WL[643.684]
;B[da]BL[664.817]
;W[fa]WL[641.222]
;B[qk]BL[663.012]
;W[rl]WL[630.587]
;B[oh]BL[655.223]
;W[af]WL[622.939]
;B[ae]BL[652.646]
;W[bg]WL[620.146]C[Meh, take the ko. I can always fill.]
;B[ag]BL[649.343]
;W[cb]WL[608.187]
;B[db]BL[646.685]
;W[af]WL[605.099]
;B[df]BL[638.828]
;W[ee]WL[600.298]
;B[ag]BL[637.268]
;W[bc]WL[591.034]C[Hmm, uh oh...]
;B[bb]BL[608.49]
;W[ab]WL[582.588]
;B[ba]BL[606.538]
;W[af]WL[571.151]
;B[be]BL[593.52]
;W[cc]WL[563.373]
;B[ca]BL[562.771]
;W[ag]WL[550.029]C[Crap, ko or seki... I lost points there.. Then what is the score?

*I then counted the game*

I think white is ahead by a good margin, considering all the center points... Uh oh. Too bad M18 was seki.

Wait a second.

is it seki?

Can't I get double ko?

That's it! I've got it!]
;B[cd]BL[435.125]
;W[ac]WL[545.945]
;B[mc]BL[425.59]
;W[ka]WL[539.259]
;B[mg]BL[419.762]
;W[lc]WL[534.95]
;B[ja]BL[417.845]C[Oh, he resigned.])').replace('http://lifein19x19.com', 'https://lifein19x19.com').replace('http://www.lifein19x19.com', 'https://www.lifein19x19.com') + "
"); [/go]
And as mentioned earlier, listed below are a few interesting positions.


Position 1

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm1
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X a . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . W O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . b , . . . . . , . . . . . , O . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


The marked white stone, above, was an interesting response for me. I've seen it before, I think, and I vaguely remember something about a guy named Kitani when I see this move. But I didn't remember what was "proper".

During the game, I felt that 'a' was the same as what I'd play if 'b' had been played instead of white's marked move, and therefore must be inferior. I tried to just walk along the outside to get some influence, but now I don't think that was the best strategy.

Using eidogo to look for this pattern, I can see a game between Sakata Eio and Kitani Minoru where black plays at 'a'.

Maybe simply playing at 'a' is an OK response. What do you think?

Position 2
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm1
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . O B . B O X X . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . O . O B B O O X . . . . |
$$ | . . . . X X O O O O B . C O X X . . . |
$$ | . X . X . O O O O B B B O O O X . . . |
$$ | . . . 1 . . . . O O B . B O X . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . O O B B O X . X . . |
$$ | . . O . X . . . . O B B . O X X X . . |
$$ | . O . O O O . . . O O B . O . O X . . |
$$ | X . O X X . . . . O X O O O X . X . . |
$$ | . O O X O O O . . O X X X O X O X . . |
$$ | . X X O X X . . . O O O X X O O . . . |
$$ | O . X O . . . . X O O X . X . . O . . |
$$ | . . X O . X X . O X X X X . X O . . . |
$$ | X X X O O O X . . O X . . X O . . . . |
$$ | . . . X O O O X O . O X X X . O O . . |
$$ | X . . X X X O O . , O O O X X X O . . |
$$ | . X . . X X . . . . . X O O X O O O . |
$$ | X X . X . X . O . . . X O X . X O X . |
$$ | X . . X X . . . . . . . X . . . X . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


When white played the marked stone above, I assumed the status of the marked group was seki. However, as was seen later on, black can start a double ko by throwing in at the marked point. I didn't consider the implications of the position, and just went about my day. White has a lot of points in the center, and I can't afford to be this casual.

If white had simply filled the marked empty intersection, I think he can have seki if he wants it.

Maybe I then lose the game.

(Interestingly, the "go" coordinate in the SGF file appears to screw up the "go" tag for the first diagram. That's why I posted a closing go tag after the SGF, even though it doesn't apply to anything meaningful.)

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 Post subject: Re: Kirby's Study Journal
Post #63 Posted: Sun Jun 23, 2013 10:03 pm 
Honinbo

Posts: 8744
Liked others: 1492
Was liked: 1487
KGS: Kirby
Tygem: 커비라고해
Catching Scent of Victory (Strategy 5), O Rissei 9d wrote:
Although in this position it may be considered natural and inevitable, Cho Honinbo always looks for the best move and goes to great pains to do so. Seeing him figure as what might be called a seeker of truth, one is deeply impressed.

Playing :b27: instantly or playing :b27: as in the actual game is the very same thing on the board, but in terms of content, there is a world of difference.



Move Content
Looking back over the post-game commentary in a few of the games I've played here, I see that I'm sometimes distressed that I didn't read more carefully during the game. I played something silly and without thought. Considering how long I've played this game, that I've done go problems in the past, and that I've seen a lot of tesujis, there is really no reason for me not to... play better. Yes, I could study more, and yes I could try to learn more. But when I'm playing a game, I play a lot of slack - and I should care more.

I've always liked the quote by O Rissei 9d, given above. I don't remember what :b27: was at all, and to me, it wasn't the point. The point struck me in the last sentence - the move was the same move on the board, but in terms of content, there was a world of difference.

So what is this "content" that exists in moves? What gives a move content, and what makes a move... empty? The answer - that which makes a "world of difference" in one's play - must lie in the essence of being a seeker of truth. It must be found not on the board where :b27: never changes. The answer must be found outside of the board... And I guess, within myself. My plan and my strategy behind my moves... That is what gives a move content. Not the fact that I played :b27:, and not the fact that I incidentally captured my opponent and won the game without having had any premonition of the event.

So I want to discover what this "world of difference" is. I want to experience the feeling of living on the other side. And I want to play that way in my games.

Today's Game
With these thoughts in mind, I began a game today. Faced with the empty board, I said to myself that I wanted to play a game that was meaningful. I wanted to play on the side that makes, as O Rissei 9d stated, a "world of difference". And did I experience it?



No, I don't think that I did. But I think that I was a little bit closer than usual. There are at least three distinct parts of the game where I remember feeling that I didn't really want to read what would happen, but I read the situation out, made a plan, and acted accordingly. But that was for only three board positions of the 218 moves we played.

So I cannot call myself a "seeker of truth", yet. I haven't experienced the "world of difference". But, again, I think I'm a little bit closer. Perhaps I am a "seeker of the essence of seeking for truth". Or perhaps, I'm simply still a tad too lazy.

Time Management
I also learned today that it is exceedingly difficult to be a "seeker of truth" in the limited time I have to play the game. I play games ranging from blitz to around 30 minutes a game (plus byo-yomi). Given a conservative estimate of a 200 move game, that's about 9 seconds per move (without byo-yomi). In reality, I only play half of those moves, and byo-yomi accounts for a lot. But the point remains that I have to make important decisions - difficult ones for a seeker of truth - in a very short amount of time.

So I am starting to believe that it is important to use each second in a game without waste. How can the "truth be sought" with these time constraints? I suppose it can only be sought by trying one's very best within the time that is allotted.

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 Post subject: Re: Kirby's Study Journal
Post #64 Posted: Sun Jun 23, 2013 10:12 pm 
Honinbo

Posts: 8744
Liked others: 1492
Was liked: 1487
KGS: Kirby
Tygem: 커비라고해
Position for Analysis 1
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$B Where would you play?
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . O , O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . 1 . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Black has just played the marked stone here. Where would you play? I played as below:
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$B
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . O , O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . 5 , 2 . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . 3 4 . . . O . 1 . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


After this, my feeling now is that it might be good to play this way:
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$B
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . O , O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . W . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . X , O . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . X O . . . O . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


However, in the game I played this way:
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$B
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . O , O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . X , O . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . W . . X O . . . O . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]



Position for Analysis 2

Where would you play in this position after black has played the marked stone?
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$B
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . B . . . . . X . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . O . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . O O . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . X X X O , O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . O X O . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . X X X O . O X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . O X . X O O O X . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . X X O X X X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . X X O O . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . X , O . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . O X . X O . . . O . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . X O O . . . . O X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . X . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


I played this way:
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$B
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . 3 . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . 1 . . . . . X . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . O . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . 2 . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . 4 . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . O O . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . X X X O , O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . O X O . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . X X X O . O X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . O X . X O O O X . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . X X O X X X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . X X O O . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . X , O . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . O X . X O . . . O . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . X O O . . . . O X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . X . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

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Post #65 Posted: Mon Jun 24, 2013 12:08 am 
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Time Analysis

In light of my previous discussion on the importance of time in games, I decided to analyze my recent games. I've been playing a lot of games this month, so I gathered all of these game records, and parsed the time I spent playing each move from each of the games. I gathered these results, and grouped them by time settings. I have been playing games that are timed at either 30 minutes, 10 minutes, or 1 minute (plus byo-yomi).

I aggregated the results by time setting. The fast 1 minute games had a non-significant amount of time before byo-yomi started, so I didn't bother making a chart for those results. The results from the other time settings, however, are shown below:

Image

Image

These graphs show the median time in seconds that I spent thinking per move, before I entered byo-yomi (for which no data are recorded). I then took the median amount of time spent per move for both the 30 minute games and the 10 minute games:

  • 5.381 seconds per move for 30 minute games
  • 3.6885 seconds per move for 10 minute games

---

From this data, I've observed two things:
1.) The distribution of time I spend for each game type is skewed toward the early and late periods of the game. This is not totally conclusive, as the data does not include byo-yomi time. Still, graph appears to show a distinct pattern to correspond to this hypothesis.

2.) I do not spend enough time thinking per move in either case. I suspected this before collecting data, so I may have been a bit biased. However, spending only around 3 to 5 seconds a move doesn't make use of the non-byo-yomi time. If I'm going to play this fast, then I might as well play with zero time, and only byo-yomi. In either case, it doesn't sound like a "seeker of truth" would be playing this fast.

Feel free to state any observations or thoughts on this analysis. :-)

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Post #66 Posted: Mon Jun 24, 2013 1:23 am 
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Position for Analysis 1
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$B Where would you play 2?
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . O , O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . 2 . . O . 1 . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


I'd play 2. Since black is strong in bottom right, any more ambitious extension seems to call in an attack / invasion? You said L3 is easy to attack, but isn't L4 even more so? Additionally, stabile L3-O3 group serves to reduce black influence from bottom right, and works decently with the hoshi on left. I'd prefer white in above diagram above as a matter of style.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$B If black plays on top, no absolutely good place for 3?
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . 1 . . . . . . . X . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . 3 . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . 2 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . 4 , . . . . . , . . . . O , O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . 2 . . O . 1 . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$B If black insists on attacking, you dont need the kick, but can play the other way directly - faster
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . O , O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . 5 . 6 . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . 4 . 3 . 2 . . O . 1 . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


If black plays on left, too many possible variations, but can't be unplayable?

Position for Analysis 2

Where would you play in this position after black has played the marked stone?
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$W
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . B . . . . . X . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . O . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . 1 . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . O O . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . X X X O , O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . O X O . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . X X X O . O X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . O X . X O O O X . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . X X O X X X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . X X O O . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . X , O . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . O X . X O . . . O . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . X O O . . . . O X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . X . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


W1, which you played, is my first reaction too.


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Post #67 Posted: Mon Jun 24, 2013 4:27 am 
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Yes, I would also play here:
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$B Where would you play 2?
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . O , O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . a . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . c . b . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . 2 . . O . 1 . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

There's also a lot of aji in Black's position.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$W
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . 5 4 B . . . . . X . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . O . 1 2 , a . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . 3 g . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . d . . . . . f . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . O O . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . e . . , . X X X O , O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . O X O . O . . |
$$ | . c . . . . . . . . X X X O . O X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . O X . X O O O X . . |
$$ | . . O . . h . . . . X X O X X X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . X X O O . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . X , O . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . O X . X O . . . O . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . b . X O O . . . . O X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . X . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

With amount of center influence it will be difficult for either player to make significant territory in the center, so the focus should now be on the corner and side areas. B is very large next. White can reduce easily with A if Black omits finish that shape around there, and C/D are miai -- if Black tries to destroy one, White will gain the other. A move such as E can also become better, making miai of F/G/H.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$W
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . c . . . . B . . . . . X . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . O . . . , b . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . 1 . a . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . d . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . f . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . O O . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . X X X O , O . . |
$$ | . . . e . . . . . . . . O X O . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . X X X O . O X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . O X . X O O O X . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . X X O X X X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . X X O O . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . X , O . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . g . . O X . X O . . . O . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . X O O . . . . O X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . X . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

:w1: here is too easy on Black and doesn't focus on the corner appropriately. Black has a good followup at A or B here; then the corner is open at C or G; and after White D Black still can reduce the area with moves such as E/F so White won't gain enough in this area.


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Post #68 Posted: Mon Jun 24, 2013 10:13 pm 
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TIM82 wrote:
...
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$B If black insists on attacking...
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . O , O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . 5 . 6 . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . 4 . 3 . 2 . . O . 1 . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


...


Thank you for responding, TIM82. This diagram in particular, certainly does look better than what was played in the game:
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$B
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . O , O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . 5 , 2 . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . 6 . . 3 4 . . . O . 1 . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


And, it feels more natural and flexible.

Perhaps it is best to play the two space extension. My fear was that the low stones like that could get pressed down, and black could use it to benefit his influence.

For example, later in the game:
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$B
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . O , O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . 3 . 5 . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . 2 4 . O . 1 . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


So my instinct, perhaps, was that these low stones would just be abused. However, as you say, playing high invites the invasion directly, and puts me in an awkward shape!

So logically, I feel that the two space extension, as you suggest, is superior. It doesn't feel totally satisfactory to me because of black's strength in the area.

However, I cannot think of a better way to play.

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logan wrote:
...

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$W
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . 5 4 B . . . . . X . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . O . 1 2 , a . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . 3 g . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . d . . . . . f . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . O O . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . e . . , . X X X O , O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . O X O . O . . |
$$ | . c . . . . . . . . X X X O . O X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . O X . X O O O X . . |
$$ | . . O . . h . . . . X X O X X X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . X X O O . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . X , O . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . O X . X O . . . O . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . b . X O O . . . . O X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . X . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

With amount of center influence it will be difficult for either player to make significant territory in the center, so the focus should now be on the corner and side areas. B is very large next. White can reduce easily with A if Black omits finish that shape around there, and C/D are miai -- if Black tries to destroy one, White will gain the other. A move such as E can also become better, making miai of F/G/H.
...


Thank you for your feedback, logan. What you say seems to make sense, but I have one question: Doesn't the :w1: :b2: exchange, above, benefit black?

That is, I feel that black can strengthen his stone in response, which works nicely with the top right black stones. What do you think?

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Post #70 Posted: Mon Jun 24, 2013 10:18 pm 
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Time Analysis (Addendum)

I thought more about the time analysis that I did yesterday on the games I've played this month. A flaw in the analysis, which I pointed out, is significant: the times don't include byo-yomi, so it makes sense for a skew to occur near the end of the recorded time. That's because, if I enter a difficult period of the game, I might use up a lot of time and enter byo-yomi, and then in byo-yomi I might play faster, for example.

Regardless, the median thinking times do indicate that I play quickly around move 30 in both time scenarios. So I was careful to keep this in mind in the game I played today.

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Post #71 Posted: Mon Jun 24, 2013 10:21 pm 
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I won this game, but I do not think I was ahead. In accordance with the time analysis I posted earlier, I took my time from around move 30. The game stats I collected indicated that I usually play quickly around this period of the game, so I tried extra hard to play carefully around this time.

My opponent ended up resigning while I was thinking about a move. However, as can be seen in the game record, I think I am losing at this point in the game.


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Post #72 Posted: Mon Jun 24, 2013 10:28 pm 
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Question to Ponder #1

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$B
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . C . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . X . . . X . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X X . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . O O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . . . . . . a . O . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X X . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . O . . . . . . . O . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


At this point in the game, I tried to identify the biggest place for me to play. In the end, I selected the marked invasion point. However, as can be seen in the game, this was a bad idea, as black could (and did) attack the right white group, while also attacking the invading stone.

In retrospect, I felt that defending around 'a' might be better. What do you think?

Question to Ponder #2

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$W Moves 64 to 64
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . O O . . X . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . O . X O O X . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . X . X X X . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X X . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . O . O O O X |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . O X X . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . X X O . . O . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . . . . . O X O O . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . X O . O . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . X . X X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X X . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . a . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . W X X . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . O . . . . . b O O X . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


At this point in the game, I felt that I had suffered from the attack on my group (which I didn't defend from the last position!), so I felt the need to reduce black's influence. I played the marked stone in an attempt to do this, and even planned to double atari if he responded at 'a'. As it turns out, he cut at 'b', which seemed to me to be a strong response.

Do I have an alternative to the marked white stone in this board position? How might you play from here? Black's influence seems significant, and I'd like to hold on to the game here. I could play calmly at around 'b' and take territory, but black's influence would continue to expand. What would you do?

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Post #73 Posted: Tue Jun 25, 2013 2:03 am 
Oza
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Kirby wrote:
Question to Ponder #1

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$B
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . C . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . X . . . X . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X X . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . O O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . . . . . . a . O . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X X . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . O . . . . . . . O . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


At this point in the game, I tried to identify the biggest place for me to play. In the end, I selected the marked invasion point. However, as can be seen in the game, this was a bad idea, as black could (and did) attack the right white group, while also attacking the invading stone.

In retrospect, I felt that defending around 'a' might be better. What do you think?

...

Let's step back one move to the position below. (In the game White jumped down to 4 and Black descended at 10 next.) I think this is the natural timing to consider :w1: below. Right now 1 is a dual-purpose move, it strengthens White group and in doing so, threatens to invade at 9. Imagine that Black goes ahead and jumps in at :b2:, which you were concerned about. The normal sequence to 8 ends in sente for White and allows the natural follow-up at :w9:. This trade of the upper left for the upper right would leave White well positioned. The initial :w1: is helpful in limiting what Black can achieve in the center.

Of course White should also think about whether to enclose the bottom around "a" before invading the upper right corner. Even if Black goes ahead and plays at 10, there are still invasion points on the top side.
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wc Dual purpose play
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . 6 8 4 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . 7 2 3 . X . . . . . . . . . . 9 . . |
$$ | . . 5 O . . . . . X . . . X . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X 0 . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . O O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . . . . . . 1 . O . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X X . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . a . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . O . . . . . . . O . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


In the game, I think that invading the top was an overplay. However, by now simply jumping out is a pure defensive move. Would it have been better to simply go back to play :w1: below? If now :b2: then :w3: is easier to play. The stone at :w1: is waiting to help out and since the gap at the top is still open, a jump around "a" threatens both the invasion of the top and turning behind the capping stone at :b2:.
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wc In the game
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . X . . . X . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X B . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . a . O O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . . . . . . 2 . O . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . . 3 . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X X . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . 1 . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . O . . . . . . . O . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

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Post #74 Posted: Tue Jun 25, 2013 7:41 am 
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Kirby wrote:
Time Analysis

In light of my previous discussion on the importance of time in games, I decided to analyze my recent games. I've been playing a lot of games this month, so I gathered all of these game records, and parsed the time I spent playing each move from each of the games. I gathered these results, and grouped them by time settings. I have been playing games that are timed at either 30 minutes, 10 minutes, or 1 minute (plus byo-yomi).

I aggregated the results by time setting. The fast 1 minute games had a non-significant amount of time before byo-yomi started, so I didn't bother making a chart for those results. The results from the other time settings, however, are shown below:

Image

Image

These graphs show the median time in seconds that I spent thinking per move, before I entered byo-yomi (for which no data are recorded). I then took the median amount of time spent per move for both the 30 minute games and the 10 minute games:

  • 5.381 seconds per move for 30 minute games
  • 3.6885 seconds per move for 10 minute games

---

From this data, I've observed two things:
1.) The distribution of time I spend for each game type is skewed toward the early and late periods of the game. This is not totally conclusive, as the data does not include byo-yomi time. Still, graph appears to show a distinct pattern to correspond to this hypothesis.

2.) I do not spend enough time thinking per move in either case. I suspected this before collecting data, so I may have been a bit biased. However, spending only around 3 to 5 seconds a move doesn't make use of the non-byo-yomi time. If I'm going to play this fast, then I might as well play with zero time, and only byo-yomi. In either case, it doesn't sound like a "seeker of truth" would be playing this fast.

Feel free to state any observations or thoughts on this analysis. :-)


My first impression from the 30 min. graph is that you run into difficulty around move 125. That suggests to me that you have not planned adequately. Remember that often the answer to the question, "What do I do in this position?" is "Don't get into that position." ;) May I suggest, following Jowa's advice, that you take time around move 100 to assess the position and plan your play?

I don't know that you are playing too quickly. If you go into byo-yomi around move 146, then you have made around 73 moves in 30 min., or around 25 sec. per move. That does not seem too quick to me. (Or am I drawing the wrong conclusion from the graph? ;) )

How about setting aside 5 min. for assessment and planning at around move 100? And while we are at it, 5 min. for move 50 and 5 min. for move 30? (Following Jowa's advice. :) ) I know that that comes to half your main time, but isn't main time for taking longer than 30 sec. on single moves?

BTW, what kinds of positions cause you to take the most time? That may suggest what to study. :)

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Post #75 Posted: Wed Jun 26, 2013 9:12 am 
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I think for a lot of us, main time is for playing without anxiety about time management.

Consistently playing in 20 seconds is easy (almost impossibly easy--I often end up playing too fast) during main time, but somehow feels like a huge pressure in byo-yomi.

I'm confident that curing this would be worth at least a stone's strength in faster games.

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Post #76 Posted: Wed Jun 26, 2013 10:22 am 
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hyperpape wrote:
Consistently playing in 20 seconds is easy (almost impossibly easy--I often end up playing too fast) during main time, but somehow feels like a huge pressure in byo-yomi.


Yes, indeed! Remarkable, isn't it? ;)

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Post #77 Posted: Wed Jun 26, 2013 12:06 pm 
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hyperpape wrote:
Consistently playing in 20 seconds is easy (almost impossibly easy...) during main time
Not for me. :)


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Post #78 Posted: Wed Jun 26, 2013 2:42 pm 
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ez4u wrote:
Let's step back one move to the position below. (In the game White jumped down to 4 and Black descended at 10 next.) I think this is the natural timing to consider :w1: below. Right now 1 is a dual-purpose move, it strengthens White group and in doing so, threatens to invade at 9. Imagine that Black goes ahead and jumps in at :b2:, which you were concerned about. The normal sequence to 8 ends in sente for White and allows the natural follow-up at :w9:. This trade of the upper left for the upper right would leave White well positioned. The initial :w1: is helpful in limiting what Black can achieve in the center.

Of course White should also think about whether to enclose the bottom around "a" before invading the upper right corner. Even if Black goes ahead and plays at 10, there are still invasion points on the top side.
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wc Dual purpose play
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . 6 8 4 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . 7 2 3 . X . . . . . . . . . . 9 . . |
$$ | . . 5 O . . . . . X . . . X . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X 0 . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . O O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . . . . . . 1 . O . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X X . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . a . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . O . . . . . . . O . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]



I like this idea a lot, and it shows that I didn't think about strategy too much. Recently, I watched a video, which was discussing a position:
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wc
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . B a . . . . . . W . . O . . X . . |
$$ | . . b O . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Black has just invaded at the 3-3. White has an option to block at 'a' or at 'b'. Considering the distance from the marked white stone, I felt inclined to play 'a':
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm1
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . X 1 . C C C C . O . . O . . X . . |
$$ | . . 2 O . . C C . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . 3 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . 4 X . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . 5 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Because I felt that, with this direction, there's more potential around the marked area. However, the lecturer explained that a key point here was that this is gote for white. Black can respond, for example, with something like this:
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm1
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . X O . . . . . . O 4 . O 6 . X . . |
$$ | . . X O . . . . 2 , . 3 . 5 . X . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . 1 . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X X . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . 7 . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Just an illustration, but it was to point out that the choice here really made a difference. Comparatively, maybe white has less potential with the other direction, but can get sente, and take control:
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wc
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . 6 X 2 . 8 . . . . W . . O . . X . . |
$$ | . 4 1 O 3 . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . 5 7 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . 9 . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


(Note: Upon later discussion, this could also be related to the fact that the marked stone is low.)

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

This reminds me a bit of your suggestion here:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wc Dual purpose play
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . 6 8 4 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . 7 2 3 . X . . . . . . . . . . 9 . . |
$$ | . . 5 O . . . . . X . . . X . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X 0 . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . O O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . . . . . . 1 . O . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X X . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . a . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . O . . . . . . . O . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Though :w1: is gote, :b2: is not, and therefore, defending the top left, which is already relatively stable, is not ideal.

It strikes me that :w1: here considers a deeper strategy than simply defending - by defending, I can then feel more at ease to invade at :w9:. I really like the flow of this sequence that you have provided.

Thank you.


ez4u wrote:
...

In the game, I think that invading the top was an overplay. However, by now simply jumping out is a pure defensive move. Would it have been better to simply go back to play :w1: below? If now :b2: then :w3: is easier to play. The stone at :w1: is waiting to help out and since the gap at the top is still open, a jump around "a" threatens both the invasion of the top and turning behind the capping stone at :b2:.



I think the alternative you've given is certainly better than invading, like I did in the game. Invading is terrible, as my group on the right is already weak.

Still, I really like the sequence you provided earlier. I think it's got a great flow to it.

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 Post subject: Re: Kirby's Study Journal
Post #79 Posted: Wed Jun 26, 2013 2:51 pm 
Honinbo

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Bill Spight wrote:
My first impression from the 30 min. graph is that you run into difficulty around move 125. That suggests to me that you have not planned adequately. Remember that often the answer to the question, "What do I do in this position?" is "Don't get into that position." ;) May I suggest, following Jowa's advice, that you take time around move 100 to assess the position and plan your play?


This sounds reasonable. From the graph, I don't see a strong indicator to select move 100 (rather than another number before 125), but doing this would likely help with the position around move 125 :-) And if Jowa has already given this advice, perhaps it's a good idea, considering the data seems to support it.

Bill Spight wrote:
I don't know that you are playing too quickly. If you go into byo-yomi around move 146, then you have made around 73 moves in 30 min., or around 25 sec. per move. That does not seem too quick to me. (Or am I drawing the wrong conclusion from the graph? ;) )


I believe you are reading the graph correctly :-)

BillSpight wrote:
How about setting aside 5 min. for assessment and planning at around move 100? And while we are at it, 5 min. for move 50 and 5 min. for move 30? (Following Jowa's advice. :) ) I know that that comes to half your main time, but isn't main time for taking longer than 30 sec. on single moves?


I like this idea.

BillSpight wrote:
BTW, what kinds of positions cause you to take the most time? That may suggest what to study. :)


To be honest, I sometimes feel sick of my attitude. I'm not exactly sure how to classify what I view to be a "difficult situation", but I get into a difficult situation, and often feel, "Why did I let myself get into this position?"...

But more than this, what I'm really sick of is when I find myself playing so nonchalantly. I know that a position could have further thought, but I feel, "Well, I've been in a situation like this before. I can play this way. It'll probably be OK. Maybe there's a way to stop what I'm playing here, but my opponent probably won't find it."

The poisonous aspect of this attitude is... that it's sometimes correct. Sometimes my opponent doesn't respond in the most severe way, and I get away with it. As a result, I get an attitude that feels like, "There's a significant chance that if I don't exert much effort at all, I'll be in fine shape. I could exert a lot more effort to figure out the *right* solution, but there's a low probability that this will make a difference."

I hate this attitude. But I have it often.

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Post #80 Posted: Wed Jun 26, 2013 3:01 pm 
Honinbo

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So... This isn't working.

Just like last week, I went to the club last night. It was a lot of fun, but I played poorly. In one game in particular, there were too points where I made *very* simple mistakes, which were the result of not reading ahead by about two moves. It was very depressing.

I've played at least a game a day most days this month. It's not a terribly long time, but it's not terribly short, either. I told myself that I didn't have much time for tsumego or for studying pro games or for studying joseki. I'd just play games and review them. I usually have about 2 hours a night to spend on go, so this seemed like a reasonable amount of time to accomplish this.

But my play from yesterday's club game speaks to me that just playing these games, and going through and reviewing them is not enough. I've practiced go problems in the past, and I really feel that this was more effective for my play than playing games with no study at all.

Conclusion
Effective immediately, I play to take a more balanced approach to studying this game. I don't think that it's correct to stop playing altogether - I've done that in the past. Rather, I will play about 1-2 games a week and post them here. Since I only have about 2 hours a day, I will spend this time on the other days entirely devoted to two things:
* Go problems (I've tried this for studying in the past)
* Joseki (I've not tried this in the past)
Maybe I'll spend about an hour for each topic. I will continue to use this journal as a medium through which to post information about this on a daily basis. And, according to plan, I will post games as I have been between 1 and 2 times a week.

I've enjoyed just playing and reviewing games for the last month a lot, but from yesterday's club practice - it's just not enough. I have to spend time getting back into *learning* the game. And I hope that a more balanced approach can help me to achieve this.

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