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 Post subject: Path to 9Dan, step by step.
Post #1 Posted: Fri May 29, 2015 6:49 pm 
Lives with ko

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Hi all -

As mentioned in my introduction, my ultimate goal is to beat my dad in a fair 1v1 game (He is an amateur 9dan, and a former Korean yeonguseng for a year in the 80s).

Along with 7-10 games a week, my study regime consists of just 20-30 problems per day atm.

As for the problem sets, I go through the sets 3 times and aim for 90% accuracy on the 3rd run, as my dad highly recommended repetitive practice for baduk problems.

I am making this journal because i feel the need to get my games reviewed, and corrected to improve my game.

Tracking Progress
Started at 16Kyu - 04/21/15
13Kyu - 04/27/15
12Kyu - 05/09/15
11Kyu - 05/16/15
10Kyu - 05/29/15
9Kyu - 06/13/15
8Kyu - 07/07/15
7Kyu - 07/21/15
6Kyu - 09/04/15
5Kyu - 09/28/15
4Kyu - 12/05/15
3Kyu - 05/28/16
2Kyu - 06/25/16
1Kyu - 08/01/16

3 Year Hiatus - 08/2016 ~ 08/2019

1Kyu - 08/01/19
1Dan Tygem - 08/01/19
1Dan KGS - 09/22/19
2Dan Tygem - 09/26/19
3Dan Tygem - 10/04/19


Completed Problem Sets
1001 L&D Problems
Get Strong at Tesuji
Graded Go Problems for Beginners Vol. 1,2,3 & 4
Graded Go Problems for Dan Players Vol. 1,2
Lee Changho L&D Vol. 1,2,3,4
Lee Changho Tesuji Vol. 1,2,3,4
Making Good Shape
Maeda Tsumego Vol. 1

Goals
1 Dan by end of 2019
3+ Dan by 2 years
5+ Dan by 4 years
7+ Dan by 7 years
Beat my dad in an even game (AKA 9 Dan) sometime before I die.

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Last edited by hl782 on Fri Oct 04, 2019 6:33 pm, edited 44 times in total.
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 Post subject: Re: Path to 9Dan, step by step.
Post #2 Posted: Fri May 29, 2015 7:16 pm 
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hl782 wrote:
As for the problem sets, I plan on doing what my dad suggested - to go through the sets 3 times and aim for 90% accuracy on the 3rd run. In an effort to save time, I won't be redoing the problems I got correct the first time, but instead keep track of the ones I missed and just redo those in my reruns.


Those that you miss you should review and keep on solving even after you have solved them the first time. That is called overlearning.

Good luck! :D

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 Post subject: Re: Path to 9Dan, step by step.
Post #3 Posted: Fri May 29, 2015 7:29 pm 
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Hi bill - So you suggest that I just do the entire problem sets over again as a whole?

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 Post subject: Re: Path to 9Dan, step by step.
Post #4 Posted: Fri May 29, 2015 7:39 pm 
Oza

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hl782 wrote:
Hi bill - So you suggest that I just do the entire problem sets over again as a whole?


If, indeed, this is what Bill is suggesting, then I agree with him. I prefer the term hardwiring to overlearning, but it is the same idea. Plus, if you really know them then redoing them the next time will add minimal amount of time.

BTW, "dan" means step, so your subject line means "Path to 9d, dan by dan". You need to get through the grades (kyu) first. :)

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Still officially AGA 5d but I play so irregularly these days that I am probably only 3d or 4d over the board (but hopefully still 5d in terms of knowledge, theory and the ability to contribute).

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Post #5 Posted: Fri May 29, 2015 8:22 pm 
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hl782 wrote:
He is a 9 dan on tygem, and previously a tier 2 yeonguseng
Is it practical for you to request him to review your games with you ?

( From some anecdotal evidence, sometimes this is not practical --
between parents and children, or people in relationships. )

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 Post subject: Re: Path to 9Dan, step by step.
Post #6 Posted: Fri May 29, 2015 8:31 pm 
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hl782 wrote:
Hi bill - So you suggest that I just do the entire problem sets over again as a whole?


No. I agree that if you get something right the first time there is no need to review it. But just reviewing a problem until you get it right one time is not enough. What I used to do was to make an X by a problem if I got it right the first time. If I got it wrong I would make a check mark, √ . Then if I got it right the next time I would make a cross mark through the long par of the check mark; if I got it wrong again I would make another check mark. I would keep reviewing it until each check mark had a cross mark and I got to make an X. Also, I would wait at least one month before reviewing problems, so that I was not just remembering the solution.

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The Adkins Principle:

At some point, doesn't thinking have to go on?

— Winona Adkins

I think it's a great idea to talk during sex, as long as it's about snooker.

— Steve Davis


Last edited by Bill Spight on Fri May 29, 2015 8:39 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Path to 9Dan, step by step.
Post #7 Posted: Fri May 29, 2015 8:34 pm 
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hl782 wrote:
my dad in a fair 1v1 game (He is a 9 dan on tygem, and previously a tier 2 yeonguseng in Korea when he was younger).

Jealous.


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Post #8 Posted: Fri May 29, 2015 8:48 pm 
Lives with ko

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EdLee wrote:
hl782 wrote:
He is a 9 dan on tygem, and previously a tier 2 yeonguseng
Is it practical for you to request him to review your games with you ?

( From some anecdotal evidence, sometimes this is not practical --
between parents and children, or people in relationships. )



Well, he's not much of a teacher - and he's usually too busy with work. He also (jokingly) says my games are terrible and his eyes will rot while reviewing them so he'll review my games when i get better... so hopefully when i hit shodan or so he'll be able to help me out more!

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 Post subject: Re: Path to 9Dan, step by step.
Post #9 Posted: Fri May 29, 2015 8:49 pm 
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Bill Spight wrote:
hl782 wrote:
Hi bill - So you suggest that I just do the entire problem sets over again as a whole?


No. I agree that if you get something right the first time there is no need to review it. But just reviewing a problem until you get it right one time is not enough. What I used to do was to make an X by a problem if I got it right the first time. If I got it wrong I would make a check mark, √ . Then if I got it right the next time I would make a cross mark through the long par of the check mark; if I got it wrong again I would make another check mark. I would keep reviewing it until each check mark had a cross mark and I got to make an X. Also, I would wait at least one month before reviewing problems, so that I was not just remembering the solution.



Ah okay! I plan on going through each of the problems I got wrong 3 times, and after those reviews, go through the entire book once again - that is what my dad suggested to do. Seems very similar to your method so it must be effective :)

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Post #10 Posted: Fri May 29, 2015 11:37 pm 
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hl782 wrote:
he's usually too busy with work
He also (jokingly) says my games are terrible
Hi Hl,

Busy and not much of a teacher is understandable.

But he also understands we all start out as beginners.

If he waits until you make 1d, however soon or late that may be --
say, in X number of years -- then he'll have to deal with and
undo X years of bad habits. Oh, joy.

It's much better to instill good habits, good shapes,
good moves to you from the very beginning, and
weed out (pun intended) any and all bad habits from the start,
than wait X years for all these terrible habits, bad sente moves,
bad shapes, bad peeps, bad pushes, etc. to grow in you like wild weeds. :)
He'll regret not having helped you from the start, then. :mrgreen:
Indeed, this takes teaching experience, quite painful at times, to appreciate. :)


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Post #11 Posted: Fri May 29, 2015 11:43 pm 
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EdLee wrote:
hl782 wrote:
he's usually too busy with work
He also (jokingly) says my games are terrible
Hi Hl,

Busy and not much of a teacher is understandable.

But he also understands we all start out as beginners.

If he waits until you make 1d, however soon or late that may be --
say, in X number of years -- then he'll have to deal with and
undo X years of bad habits. Oh, joy.

It's much better to instill good habits, good shapes,
good moves to you from the very beginning, and
weed out (pun intended) any and all bad habits from the start,
than wait X years for all these terrible bad habits, bad sente moves,
bad shapes, bad peeps, bad pushes, etc. to grow in you like wild weeds. :)
He'll regret not having helped you from the start, then. :mrgreen:
Indeed, this takes teaching experience, quite painful at times, to appreciate. :)


i think he just wants me to catch those by myself haha

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 Post subject: Re: Path to 9Dan, step by step.
Post #12 Posted: Fri May 29, 2015 11:50 pm 
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Anyways, here's a couple games I played in the past few days. This First one i resigned because I thought i had lost but turns out i could kill the group to the left...



The second one i won by a large amount.



The third one I lost by 1.5 points, but the guy messed up in the endgame scoring so gave me a victory by 4.5 (the middlegame for me was an absolute disaster in this one)




Any reviews will be really appreciated! I mostly just play by instincts at this point so any fix of habits, etc will be very helpful :)


Attachments:
dukes-hl782.sgf [6.01 KiB]
Downloaded 1500 times
Johy-hl782.sgf [4.63 KiB]
Downloaded 1527 times
vasile41-hl782.sgf [6.56 KiB]
Downloaded 1505 times

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 Post subject: Re: Path to 9Dan, step by step.
Post #13 Posted: Sat May 30, 2015 1:19 am 
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Good luck with your study,

"Cho Hun Hyun's Haengma Guide"

Can you give me more information on what this is?

I'm not much stronger than you but if you ever see me online @ KGS (username= zac) then ask for a game, I'd be glad to help someone on their way to 9D!

Oh, and just out of curiosity, and because it's something I've been thinking about a bit lately- do you only play on KGS? If so, why did you choose to play there over other servers- especially Tygem if that is where your dad plays?

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 Post subject: Re: Path to 9Dan, step by step.
Post #14 Posted: Sat May 30, 2015 1:36 am 
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zac wrote:
Good luck with your study,

"Cho Hun Hyun's Haengma Guide"

Can you give me more information on what this is?

I'm not much stronger than you but if you ever see me online @ KGS (username= zac) then ask for a game, I'd be glad to help someone on their way to 9D!

Oh, and just out of curiosity, and because it's something I've been thinking about a fair bit lately- do you only play on KGS? If so, why did you choose to play there over other servers- especially Tygem if that is where your dad plays?



Cho Hun Hyun's haengma guide is a korean book series where Cho hun hyun explains the fundamentals/basics of haengma. Cho was reknowned for his speedy, offensive game and development. The cover looks like this http://image.bookoa.com:9998/data/book/16840490.jpg. I am fortunate enough to have a copy (my dad used it years ago) as its out of publication now. A more watered down version called Cho Hun Hyun's Quick and Powerful Haengma (http://image.gsshop.com/image/61/65/6165138_L1.jpg) is still available though.

I tried both kgs and tygem and i felt that kgs was less aggressive, and a better environment to learn the fundamentals of go (tygem led to me playing too many dogfights). Once i hit dan or so, i plan on making an account on tygem since i feel like i'll be more ready then.

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Post #15 Posted: Sat May 30, 2015 3:47 am 
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Hi HL,

Game 1.

:w16: too early; end game move.

:b19: maybe slow. B is quite strong there, thanks to :w16: . Probably tenuki.

:b29: did you consider C7 ? Cut him off, force him to live in gote, hurt his corner.

:w32: terrible. C5 clamp is standard.

:b37: :shock: C4 push through, crush his corner.

:w38: :shock: You gave him a chance to fix his shape and he didn't take it.

:b38: :shock: Don't follow your opponent around like a puppy.
C4. It has to do with his corner shape. C4 is not only just about cash,
which is nice in itself, but you're attacking his corner.
After you push through C4, his corner is not settled.
Remember: cash + eyespace is big. This will return many times over
in your other game reviews.

:b51: Terrible -- you got tricked.
First thing to learn this corner is the joseki
for W is extend to Q5 on :w46: , not his hane R5 in the game.
There are extensive discussions here on the forum about this joseki
and the R5 hane variations.
Maybe some kind folks can dig up the links to those threads for you.
Good for you to learn the basic variations of the joseki,
and how to deal with the R5 variations. Already worth this game.

After his :w46: hane, your :b47: hane is one variation,
which can lead to messy fights. Another variation is just drop to R2,
which can also lead to messy fights.

The move for :b51: is clamp at R6. Then Q5 and S5 are miai.
If W connects on top with Q5, you connect under with S5 --
this result is better for you ( :black: ) than joseki.
If W pushes through with S5, you cut at Q5 --
this is the beginning of messy fights. Both sides have to be
very careful in this fight because one wrong move
could mean disaster. But Black should be OK if you play correctly.
This is the real meaning of the :b47: hane: to start a messy fight.

Your :b51: hane: you, and likely also your opponent,
were confusing this corner with the 3-3 jump-in,
when the corner has only a White stone at 4-4.
This corner is completely different because of
your :b41: approach and his :w42: pincer.
The ( :b41: - :w42: ) exchange completely changes the nature of
this corner from an 'empty' 3-3 jump-in.

I think studying this corner joseki and variations is worth this game.
Other kind folks may add more comments about the rest of this game.

Your :b51: let White get away with murder. :)

Up to :w54: , you should compare this result with the joseki.
You got tricked. If W could always get this result,
then nobody would play the joseki extend Q5 on :w46: ,
and everybody would hane R5 on :w46: --
W could only get this result thanks to your mistake of hane :b51: . :)

Study this corner. :)

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 Post subject: Re: Path to 9Dan, step by step.
Post #16 Posted: Sat May 30, 2015 5:54 pm 
Lives with ko

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Thanks for the analysis Ed. What's funny is that I actually played a game before where I exploited that mistake against another guy when i was 12kyu. I must have just forgotten about it throughout the match!



As for daily progress, I am now finished with 500 out of the 1001 life and death problems. But i still have a habit of making clumsy mistakes and not reading through properly. Very enjoyable set though!

I am also finding Get Strong at Attacking & Invading a great complementary problem set along with A&D by Ishida.

I also won and lost a game today at 10k. I should have won both, but the 1st game i completely misread one of my shapes (thought i was dead when i was in fact alive) and lost a Ko fight that i didnt have to fight because of it.

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 Post subject: Re: Path to 9Dan, step by step.
Post #17 Posted: Sun May 31, 2015 7:04 pm 
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feeling a little sick so i didn't get to do too much, but i finished Lee Chang Ho's Tesuji Vol 4 and L&D Vol 1 today. The tesuji book was a piece of cake (94% accuracy in 20 minutes), while the L&D was a bit more tricky (66% accuracy :scratch: ). I plan on going through these again after I finish up some other books such as GS at Tesuji, and 1001 L&D problems.


In the meantime, I am highly considering making another account just for blitz games! Seems like a good way to play when I don't have much time and to develop some intuition.

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 Post subject: Re: Path to 9Dan, step by step.
Post #18 Posted: Mon Jun 01, 2015 2:59 pm 
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here is a free game I played today. I ran out of time and lost but we kept on playing on after time ran out, and I ended up winning the Ko fight in the bottom and managed to make life in the upper right and won by 30+ points. Any reviews would be greatly appreciated :)



Attachments:
hl782-tomast.sgf [3.49 KiB]
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 Post subject: Re: Path to 9Dan, step by step.
Post #19 Posted: Tue Jun 02, 2015 1:30 pm 
Lives with ko

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Another victory, with my review comments included (including some incorrect variations - idk how to delete them). I realize I am starting to become a more influence-oriented player, and for some reason i am not a fan of this. I would rather like to play a more territorial, aggressive game. Because of this I am going to start reviewing some past games of Lee Sedol.

Any reviews of this game would be greatly appreciated!



Attachments:
nbv-hl782 - reviewed.sgf [4.54 KiB]
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 Post subject: Re: Path to 9Dan, step by step.
Post #20 Posted: Tue Jun 02, 2015 2:04 pm 
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Why do you think that a territorial style is more aggressive than an influence style?

Besides which, why worry about your own style? Just make what you think is the best play. :)

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The Adkins Principle:

At some point, doesn't thinking have to go on?

— Winona Adkins

I think it's a great idea to talk during sex, as long as it's about snooker.

— Steve Davis


This post by Bill Spight was liked by: hl782
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