It is currently Fri Mar 29, 2024 1:33 am

All times are UTC - 8 hours [ DST ]




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 102 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6  Next
Author Message
Offline
 Post subject: Re: Ember's Rat Race
Post #81 Posted: Mon Apr 21, 2014 9:27 am 
Lives with ko
User avatar

Posts: 286
Location: Germany
Liked others: 146
Was liked: 81
Rank: EGF 3-4k - KGS 2-3k
Online playing schedule: A schedule..? When hell freezes over... maybe. ^^;
Weekly Report #15

Hello everyone and happy Easter to you all!

Another week has passed and it's time for the next update, as promised last week. Bad news first: Easter is almost over and tomorrow I have to go back to work and will have less time for Go. But the good news is really good: I managed to reach all the goals I set for this week! :) Ok, with so much free time at hand it was not that hard to get there, but I'm still happy about it anyways. As a little reminder here's what I wanted to do for this week:

  • play 8 games, including the 100th game since the beginning of this year! --- CHECK
  • watch (at least) two lectures from Guo Juan's Pro Lesson Library: they are really good for lunch breaks! --- CHECK (Choose Josekis 2 and Typical mistakes 5k-3d Lesson 2)
  • solve tsumego while commuting: I hope to finish Cho Chikun's Encyclopedia of Life and Death volume 1 this week, for the first time from cover to cover! It's only 10 pages to go.. --- CHECK (started with the second volume already)
  • resume my study of After Openings: finally finish Shape 1 --- CHECK
  • play some more on Easter: as much as I can, maybe another 10 games to set a goal --- CHECK (up to this very moment it's even 12 games and I won't stop here ;-) )

This was a brilliant week and I had lots of fun playing and studying. Actually, I cannot remember a week in my whole life in which I have played more Go than in this week - even when I was at the Go Congress the year before the last. All games have been played on KGS and I really have gotten used to playing regularly (there) again. Looking back, I must say that I'm really, really happy with my progress. On saturday I had a four games winning streak which nearly got me to 2k. Pretty hard to believe since I had struggled so much to even get back to 3k when I almost stopped playing on the internet a few weeks ago. Staying at 3k level now is not nearly as hard as it has been before. Since I played 20 games (rated, of course ;-) ) in the last 8 days (until now) and since I've been a 3k for the whole time, I think it is not too early to say that I can call myself KGS 3k now. I don't know what got me there but it seems like I improved and I definitely won't complain. :) Still, that doesn't mean that the results I got since I started this project surprise me. I never thought progress would show itself that fast and be so... easy? I cannot claim that I worked very hard in any way but doing a little bit here and there seems to work for now, too. Of course, progressing won't get easier, but right now I have the feeling that nothing will stop me (again) and this is great, even if this feeling lasts only a little longer. :D
I thought about posting one or two of the lost games here, but since I already analysed them with a stronger player and think that we identified the most critical mistakes, I won't badger you guys. Not this time. :) However, there is a position I'd like to ask your opinion. This is the beginning of a game that I played today (I'm black) and my oponent played the marked move:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . @ . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . O X . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


My question is, since this is not joseki (at least, I couldn't find it in the Takao), is that marked white move a trick move of some kind? What would your answer be? I'm curious to see your answers here.

Concerning the first shape of After Openings I want to say that I now have looked at all the diagrams in that chapter (although I haven't replayed all of the sample games there yet) - of course this doesn't mean, that I mastered this shape already. I have to study the moves again and again in the following week (and after that) and I hope to actually use the knowledge in games. Unfortunately, this hasn't happened yet that often in the games I played - but I'm working on that. Let's hope that there'll be plenty of opportunities to put the knowledge to the test.

Since it worked so well to clearly state some goals for the next week, I'll continue to do so. For the next week, I hope to reach the following goals:
  • play at least 14 games until sunday (more than the usual 8 because I already played 3 today and want to play some more - I still have to catch up a little)
  • do tsumego from the second volume of Cho Chikun's Encyclopedia of Life & Death while commuting
  • repeat the study of the first shape in After Openings and try to use that knowledge in the games I play (my study of the next shape will begin the week after this or the next week, whenever I feel ready to go on)
  • watch at least 2 lectures from Guo Juan's Pro Lecture Library

Maybe I'll add some more study of joseki or tesuji if I'm in the mood (and if it's too late in the evening to start a new game) but this is optional for now. I'll surely (have to) come back for that sooner or later.

Now I gotta go to prepare dinner and after that I hope to play another 2 games today. See you next week, have a good time!

Ember

+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+

+++ Playing statistics +++
Date: 21 April 2014
Games played/to be played: 116 / 284
Days passed/to come: 111 / 254
Games won total: 65
Games lost total: 51
Jigo: 0
Winning percentage total: ≈ 56%
Landmarks: First win against KGS 3k on 5 January 2014 (unrated game, own rank: 4k, color: black, no komi), first win against KGS 3k in a rated game on 19 January 2014 (own rank: 4k, color: black, komi: 0,5 points), first time hitting 3k by playing and not by not-playing (25 January 2014), January: succeeded in playing the 34 games needed per month to reach 400 games by the end of the year, first win against a KGS 1k in a rated game (11 February 2014, own rank: 2k?, color: black, Komi: 0,5), first win against a KGS 2k in a rated game (12 February 2014, own rank: 3k, color: black, Komi: 0,5), scoring five wins out of six games in a tournament as 6k - first time I played better than 3:2 as 6k (February 2014), first win under tournament conditions against a 3kyu (10 April 2014, own rank: 5kyu), got a solid rank of KGS 3k (April 2014)

EDIT: corrected the # of this week's report.

_________________
Image


Last edited by Ember on Sun Apr 27, 2014 5:31 am, edited 1 time in total.
Top
 Profile  
 
Offline
 Post subject: Re: Ember's Rat Race
Post #82 Posted: Mon Apr 21, 2014 9:37 am 
Oza

Posts: 2493
Location: DC
Liked others: 157
Was liked: 442
Universal go server handle: skydyr
Online playing schedule: When my wife is out.
My immediate reaction to the non-joseki is to wedge in and either take a ponnuki or horribly break white's shape.

Edit: Josekipedia seems to have a white double hane possible also. I've played into this position starting with the 2 space high approach, attach, and it's playable. Their variations seem reasonable, if you want to look.

Top
 Profile  
 
Offline
 Post subject: Re: Ember's Rat Race
Post #83 Posted: Mon Apr 21, 2014 10:31 am 
Lives in sente
User avatar

Posts: 773
Location: Michigan, USA
Liked others: 143
Was liked: 218
Rank: KGS 1 kyu
Universal go server handle: moyoaji
I think there is something important about joseki that can be learned from this.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$
$$ . . . . . . . . .
$$ . . . . . . . . .
$$ . . . . . . . . .
$$ . . . . . a . . .
$$ . . . X . X O . .
$$ . . . . b O . . .
$$ . . . . . . . . .
$$ . . . . . . . . .
$$ -----------------[/go]


In the normal joseki, why does black play at either 'a' or 'b'?

To prevent the wedge. Both moves prevent the wedge with better shape than connecting directly.

So whenever black deviates from this joseki it should be because he thinks something is more important than defending the corner shape from the wedge. White then should strongly consider wedging since black didn't defend said wedge.

DailyJoseki has this position as well - played 19 times. It seems to occur primarily in 4-4 cross games and it and shows this result:
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$B :w6: at 'a' or 'b'
$$ . . . . . . . . .
$$ . . . . . . . . .
$$ . . . . . . . . .
$$ . . . b 5 3 1 . .
$$ . . . X 2 X O a .
$$ . . . . 4 O . . .
$$ . . . . . . . . .
$$ . . . . . . . . .
$$ -----------------[/go]


This may not be joseki, but I would say it resembles joseki at least.

With that hane black clearly was asking for the outside and he got it. Finishing with a move at 'a' white should also be satisfied with 4th line potential on the side of her approach. Black also may owe a move at 'b' to secure his own position. Cutting at 'b' would seem to be saying that white is not satisfied with that and wishes to make sure the black group on the 5th line remains unsettled.

_________________
"You have to walk before you can run. Black 1 was a walking move.
I blushed inwardly to recall the ignorant thoughts that had gone through
my mind before, when I had not realized the true worth of Black 1."

-Kageyama Toshiro on proper moves

Top
 Profile  
 
Offline
 Post subject: Re: Ember's Rat Race
Post #84 Posted: Mon Apr 21, 2014 11:06 am 
Lives with ko
User avatar

Posts: 286
Location: Germany
Liked others: 146
Was liked: 81
Rank: EGF 3-4k - KGS 2-3k
Online playing schedule: A schedule..? When hell freezes over... maybe. ^^;
Thanks for your quick replies, skydyr and moyoaji! When the marked move was played, I also thought about what moyoaji posted concerning the wedge between the two white stones. That's why I actually did wedge. However, I didn't stick to the variation moyoaji posted from Dailyjoseki, but deviated by going up.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . 0 8 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . 9 3 2 O . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O 1 O X . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . 7 5 4 X . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . 6 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . 5 . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . 9 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . 4 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . C 6 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . 3 O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . 1 X X O O . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O X O X . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . X X O X 2 . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . 7 O 8 . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


He managed to close me in, which of course is no good at all, but I got the initiative to play a double approach against his upper left corner and I have a stone at the lower right so I don't think that his influence works all too well for him - although the stone would be better placed on the star point and, looking back, I think I should have played 3 in the second diagram on the marked point instead.

I'll definitely go to Josekipedia and Dailyjoseki in the future to look something up that came up in a game, too. Thanks for pointing them out! :)

_________________
Image

Top
 Profile  
 
Offline
 Post subject: Re: Ember's Rat Race
Post #85 Posted: Mon Apr 21, 2014 12:00 pm 
Oza

Posts: 2493
Location: DC
Liked others: 157
Was liked: 442
Universal go server handle: skydyr
Online playing schedule: When my wife is out.
In that case, it's pretty clear that black wasn't sealed in originally, but in trade for the double approach, so it's tough to count as part of the pattern, unless you are thinking of it as a tenuki quasi-joseki.

I'd be inclined at some point to play N3 or N4 to try and neutralize the influence somewhat, I think. One other thing that might be considered is playing :b9: in diagram 2 as a one space jump from :b5: to help flatten out white's framework potential.

Regarding Moyoaji's post, I have seen some players (weak SDK or DDK) play the connection, which also prevents the wedge. Of course, in most circumstances this is rather slow, but it did occur to me when reviewing those games that there are times when it could be right, even if they are infrequent.

As for josekipedia, it can be helpful in that it contains a lot of non-joseki moves as well. You do have to look at the source, though, and some moves also don't have much in way of explanation.

Top
 Profile  
 
Offline
 Post subject: Re: Ember's Rat Race
Post #86 Posted: Sun Apr 27, 2014 7:35 am 
Lives with ko
User avatar

Posts: 286
Location: Germany
Liked others: 146
Was liked: 81
Rank: EGF 3-4k - KGS 2-3k
Online playing schedule: A schedule..? When hell freezes over... maybe. ^^;
Weekly Update #16

Here we are again since another week has (already) passed. After the very positive last week, this week got me a little more down to earth - the results are still good, but somehow... you know, it's like B.B.King has sung: "The thrill is gone" - at least for now. But that's how it is, there are good weeks and weeks which are not that great. I still was able to reach most of the goals I set for this week. Here's the list:

  • play at least 14 games until sunday (more than the usual 8 because I already played 3 today and want to play some more - I still have to catch up a little) --- CHECK
  • and review them - at least 3 situations per game (look up joseki, look at invasion/reduction, look for mistakes, …) --- CHECK
  • do tsumego from the second volume of Cho Chikun's Encyclopedia of Life & Death while commuting --- CHECK
  • repeat the study of the first shape in After Openings and try to use that knowledge in the games I play (my study of the next shape will begin the week after this or the next week, whenever I feel ready to go on) --- NOT DONE
  • watch at least 2 lectures from Guo Juan's Pro Lecture Library --- CHECK (Joseki for beginners 7, Kobayashi Style Opening 1)

Additionally, I read the first chapter of "Reducing territorial Frameworks" by Fujisawa Shuko (since someone mentioned that I jumped in to invade too quickly instead of considering to simply reduce) and tried to read the first chapter of "The Endgame" by Ogawa/Davies. The latter one proved to be so dry, that I quickly put it away again. I do know I have to tackle this subject soon but the book is just so dry that I'm afraid it will catch fire if I hold it too long. :-? Honestly, why is there no alternative to this book in the English language out there? Why has this topic been almost ignored for nearly the last four decades in the English Go literature? :scratch: I looked it up, my preferred Go shop (Hebsacker Verlag) only lists 3 (!) books on the endgame (I ignore books which have a little material on the endgame but also include other stuff "The Second book of Go"): "The Endgame by Ogawa/Davies, being the only standard work, is from nearly 40 years ago (1976), "Get strong at the Endgame" has been first published almost 20 years ago (1997) and only offers problems to train but doesn't really try to convey the basics in a structured and concise way and the most recent one, the "Monkey Jump Workshop" by Richard Hunter, is from 2002 and concentrates on just one very limited aspect of the endgame. Of course, these books do not get "outdated" like joseki dictionaries, but if you compare this situation to the opening or the middle game, the picture is very different. I'd really like to know why the endgame is kind of the "poor cousin" of the English Go literature.. Even in Guo Juan's Pro Lecture Library I couldn't find a series of lectures on the endgame (only on the monkey jump which seems to be quite "popular" by endgame standards), which surprised me a great deal since she has so many lectures and so many topics there.
But rambling on here will get me nowhere, sooner or later (I fear sooner is what is called for) I will have to fight my way through this book just like everybody else who wanted to improve his/her endgame skills. However, that topic won't make it on my priority list, I'm sure of it.

Playing, on the contrary, was still fun until the middle of the week (or, until yesterday when I faced the second jerk in about 120 games of this year). However, since then my motivation as well as my focus and concentration while reading (while doing tsumego and during games) have slowly deteriorated. When I'm reading I have a much less clear picture in my head compared to the week before and reading a position repeatedly doesn't help either. Of course, mistakes and blunders have been peaking in the last week. I'm positive that this is only temporary - maybe I overdid it the week before this? I definitely see this as a sign that I need a little break to relax and let a few things sink in before I can plunge head forward into the improvement process again. That's why I want to lower my goals for this week a little, even though there's another holiday coming up this week which would give me lots of time to play more. But I don't think that this is what I need just now. Since I caught up very well over the last two weeks with my schedule, it is ok. After all, this is not a contest to play 400 games as fast as I can or to improve as quickly as possible or be xkyu by [enter random date] (although I don't mind to improve (quickly), of course :)). This is about persistence (amongst others) and its effects on my Go.

I already mentioned that I will lower my goals for this week. I'll do this by defining a set of minimum goals and an additional (optional) set of goals. As you will quickly see, I'll lower my standards only a little bit compared to before while introducing something that my routine has lacked until now: :study: Until now, I mostly have been playing games (including a quick review), doing tsumego and occasionally have looked at a joseki here and there (and recently started to watch the lectures by Guo Juan regularly). That's what I really lacked when I started but after about one third of the time and the number of games I want to play this year guess it is time to adjust the routine a bit. I really want to tackle studying in a more structured way since I believe that it will be an important factor in improving from now on. That's why I decided that it would be great if I could manage to read a chapter in a book or watch a lecture on a topic from each of the three phases of a game per week. I do have access to quite a few books on a large range of topics as well as to Guo Juan's Pro lecture Library and - since Easter, thanks a lot again for the present of a half year membership, honey! :-* - to KGS+, too. As you can see from what I wrote above, I already tried to incorporate this study into the last week and it is definitely possible. The only problem is the very limited material on the endgame. Maybe I'll cut that phase down (for now) to half a chapter from "The Endgame" and some additional tsumego until I get used to this dryness (and until I'm positive nothing will catch fire in the course of things :roll: ).

I rambled on very long this time to explain a few things. To finally come to an end, here are the goals for the next week:
Minimum goals:
  • play 6 games until sunday (I hope I get to play some more games against 2kyus and less games against 4kyus than in the last 2 weeks. I do not mind playing white but the quota in the last 2 weeks has been a "little" bit off in my opinion..)
  • and review all of them at least shortly (look up joseki where a corner turned out strange or unfavourable for me, look at invasion/reduction, look for general mistakes, …)
  • do tsumego from the second volume of Cho Chikun's Encyclopedia of Life & Death while commuting
  • watch at least 2 lectures from Guo Juan's Pro Lecture Library (any lecture that fits into my lunch break will do but something that fits the study goals below is preferred)

Optional goals:
  • Opening: repeat the study of the first shape in After Openings and try to use that knowledge in the games I play (my study of the next shape will begin the week after this or the next week, whenever I feel ready to go on)
  • Middle game: Review chapter 1 shortly and then read Chapter 2 of "Reducing Territorial Frameworks" by Fujisawa Shuko
  • Endgame: Muster the energy to work through half of the first chapter

I want to conclude today with a game record. It's been quite a long time since I last posted a record here but today I finally played a game which I think is quite suitable for a commentary since I'm sure I made plenty of mistakes in the beginning of the game. I'm not very happy to post it since I won on time when I was behind by about 20 points :oops: (which I only realized after the game because I didn't really count and misjudged the size of a few territories - focus and concentration again..), but I'd really much appreciate any comments on the first like 90 moves of that game since I have no concrete ideas what went really wrong (apart from that I think I should have played C10 on D10 instead and maybe shouldn't have invaded the top left corner that quickly but should have played something on the left side). Here is the game (I deleted all text that was written during the game), I'm black:


Now I take the rest of the day "off". :cool: I wish you all a great week, see you next time!

Ember


+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+

+++ Playing statistics +++
Date: 27 April 2014
Games played/to be played: 127 / 273
Days passed/to come: 104 / 248
Games won total: 73
Games lost total: 54
Jigo: 0
Winning percentage total: ≈ 58%
Landmarks: First win against KGS 3k on 5 January 2014 (unrated game, own rank: 4k, color: black, no komi), first win against KGS 3k in a rated game on 19 January 2014 (own rank: 4k, color: black, komi: 0,5 points), first time hitting 3k by playing and not by not-playing (25 January 2014), January: succeeded in playing the 34 games needed per month to reach 400 games by the end of the year, first win against a KGS 1k in a rated game (11 February 2014, own rank: 2k?, color: black, Komi: 0,5), first win against a KGS 2k in a rated game (12 February 2014, own rank: 3k, color: black, Komi: 0,5), scoring five wins out of six games in a tournament as 6k - first time I played better than 3:2 as 6k (February 2014), first win under tournament conditions against a 3kyu (10 April 2014, own rank: 5kyu), got a solid rank of KGS 3k (April 2014)

_________________
Image

Top
 Profile  
 
Offline
 Post subject: Re: Ember's Rat Race
Post #87 Posted: Sun May 25, 2014 12:53 pm 
Lives with ko
User avatar

Posts: 286
Location: Germany
Liked others: 146
Was liked: 81
Rank: EGF 3-4k - KGS 2-3k
Online playing schedule: A schedule..? When hell freezes over... maybe. ^^;
Weekly Update #17

Hey folks,

long time no see! Actually... four weeks have already passed again since the last report. Sometimes I cannot believe how much time flies by. I guess I should consider renaming my reports because the last few ones already had no weekly character. And I somehow doubt that this is about to change soon. I'll have to think about what can be done about that and hope that until the next report I have come up with a solution.. But for now, I still owe you guys a little report on April before I'll write about more recent stuff (of which some part is quite thrilling ;-) ).


APRIL
Image
Not only concerning the number of games April was by far my most successful month! I even had to adjust the axis to let you see the number of games I played. :D At the beginning of this all I never thought I could play this much in just one month. Even if one keeps in mind that there were quite a few holidays in this month (Easter), it is a great result. I'm also extremely happy with my winning quota (58%!) although I have no idea why I'm winning so much at this moment (that is where I improved in the last few months) - but I'm absolutely sure that this is about to change soon.


This month so far:
Until now, compared to April, May has been a disaster. Ok, maybe that's a little too much, but so far I have only played 13 games until this moment. And today is the 25th... That means that it is pretty much impossible that I'll reach my monthly goal however much I'll hang in this coming week. Of course, that won't hold me back from trying to get as near as I can. This is also kind of a need so that I won't deviate too much from my overall quota. Right now I'm about 20 games behind schedule, so I better get some discipline back! :mad:

The games in the last few weeks have something in common: Although I kind of won more games than before (whyever :-? ), the gaping holes in my knowledge and "abilites" have become more striking recently. Sounds like a paradox? Yup. And it's a little worrisome because fundamental parts of my game are concerned: My reading, albeit all my efforts in the last six months with doing tsumego and playing games with longer time settings, doesn't seem to have improved a bit. Although this.. tiredness as I described it a few entries before has passed, I sometimes still fail to even read 4 or 5 moves ahead and evaluate the result correctly. This is not what I had hoped for when I decided to regularly do tsumego... Maybe this is another phase that will pass. At least that's what I hope right now.
Then something else that has come up this month is that my opening really su.. seems to be horrible. In most of the games this month I have the impression that I'm in a bad spot after the first 40-50 moves. Although I somehow seem to be able to make up for that in the middle game and sometimes in the endgame, this is a tendency I really don't like. I guess it is more than about time that I finally read my first book on the opening to really get those basic principles that I seem to be missing. :roll:

However, not everything has been so bad in the last few weeks! First, I played in another tournament a few weeks ago and was able to win four out of five games! The greatest thing about this was that I (playing as 5kyu) was able to play lots of stronger players (only one 6kyu and three 4kyus and one 3kyu) and I learned a lot! These were all exciting games which showed the characteristics described above (bad opening by me and then clawing back all the points I could get after that) and included one very lucky win against a 3kyu player. The game was pretty close until the very end (within 10 points which I think is a good result for me) where he made a grave reading mistake which led to me winning the game by 5,5 points. Especially this last win in the tournament gave my rating a big boost and - ratingwise! - I could play as EGF 4kyu now. Although I don't feel up to that yet and I don't think I'll do that in the next tournament (which will be in 4 weeks - maybe there'll be some groundshaking changes, but I doubt that very much ;-) ). Since I'm only 10 points over the "border" I don't think anybody will mind.

The second success was that last sunday I hit KGS 2kyu by playing for the first time ever! :) This was a really great feeling - although it also scared me because I don't honestly believe that I really got to that spot where my boyfriend (now EGF 2kyu and KGS 1k-2kyu) has been for a few years now. That quick. With my "ability". It just feels unreal. :-? And I guess that this also held me back from playing lately. Hopefully, I'll be able to adjust to that soon! I made the first step today by playing two games and losing them both and falling back to 3kyu again - which is not bad since maybe it'll help to accept the fact that I am where I am now.
The first game should have been a loss by more than 20 points but which I only lost by 2,5 points because I was able to cut something off and the second one was a close one until I missed a tricky endgame tesuji of his (this was a really cool one I have to admit!) and which cost me about 15-20 points. I'll post both games here. Maybe someone can give me a pointer or two on the opening of these games - I'd be very grateful for some ideas there! (by the way, I'm white both games)

In this first game I immediately got me a weak group on the lower side of the board which influenced the whole game. Should I have played a two-space-jump instead of a one-space-jump at move 10? Or something altogether different?



In this second game he was able to get a pretty large framework on the lower right because I plyed 3-3 on the lower left. I'd be really grateful for some ideas on how I could handle this framework. The invasion was not a good idea, I knew that, but I was at a complete loss for what to do in this situation..



I'll skip the goals part for today, I'll have to think about that (yet again, I know...) and how I can really get back into something that deserves the name "routine". Although I haven't been as lazy as this entry might make you think (I always ate my veggies erm... watched my lectures and (nearly always) did my tsumego!), everything lacks coordination and all the characteristics of a routine I planned to build.. I'll think about what to do until next time, promised!

That's it for today. See you soon!

Ember

+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+

+++ Playing statistics +++
Date: 25 May 2014
Games played/to be played: 140 / 260
Days passed/to come: 145 / 220
Games won total: 81
Games lost total: 59
Jigo: 0
Winning percentage total: around 58%
Landmarks: First win against KGS 3k on 5 January 2014 (unrated game, own rank: 4k, color: black, no komi), first win against KGS 3k in a rated game on 19 January 2014 (own rank: 4k, color: black, komi: 0,5 points), first time hitting 3k by playing and not by not-playing (25 January 2014), January: succeeded in playing the 34 games needed per month to reach 400 games by the end of the year, first win against a KGS 1k in a rated game (11 February 2014, own rank: 2k?, color: black, Komi: 0,5), first win against a KGS 2k in a rated game (12 February 2014, own rank: 3k, color: black, Komi: 0,5), scoring five wins out of six games in a tournament as 6k (February 2014), first win under tournament conditions against a 3kyu (10 April 2014, own rank: 5kyu), got a solid rank of KGS 3k (April 2014), scoring four wins out of five games in a tournament as 5kyu (April and May 2014), first win in a tournament against a 3kyu (11 May 2014, own rank: 5kyu), first reached KGS 2kyu by playing (18 May 2014)

_________________
Image

Top
 Profile  
 
Offline
 Post subject: Re: Ember's Rat Race
Post #88 Posted: Sat May 31, 2014 7:18 am 
Lives with ko
User avatar

Posts: 286
Location: Germany
Liked others: 146
Was liked: 81
Rank: EGF 3-4k - KGS 2-3k
Online playing schedule: A schedule..? When hell freezes over... maybe. ^^;
Weekly Update #18

Hey everyone (if anybody is still reading this),

although the week is not over yet and although the month hasn't ended yet either, I thought I'd write a little update today before the hardcore month of June starts. "Hardcore month? What's that?", maybe is what you're asking yourself. Well, a few days ago a not that comfortable insight entered my mind: Tomorrow June will already begin. That means that we're approaching the middle of the year. Already. I know, for most of you this may not be a new fact, but somehow I (I say "I" but I rather suspect either laziness or bad conscience of doing this deed :batman: ) was able to put that information in a box and burry that very deeply in the depths of my brain . The thing is, I'm a little behind in my schedule. I already wrote here that May wasn't going that great and although it won't be nearly as bad as March, I definitely won't hit the mark of 34 games this month either - I'd have to play another 11 games today to make it and this won't happen. According to schedule, 50 games (the current number now I'm writing this) would have to be played in June to play the first half of my 400 games in the first half of the year.

Ouch.

It's a large number, but I decided to still give it a try (stubbornness issues). That's why my single goal for the next month will be to play those damned 50 games - hardcore indeed (for me). After that I'll have the time (and hopefully the energy, too) to think about studying and all the rest that once was part of it all (although in the end everything boils down to playing, playing, playing because of that schedule).

As if playing as much as 50 games wasn't already already hard, there is another problem: Playing isn't that much fun right now. Although the games themselves are interesting and although I'm very happy to be able to stay at KGS 2kyu (yeah!), I'm somehow a little tired of playing - I have to really force myself to look for another game... I don't know why that is. Progress is still there (at least rank-wise, don't ask me about skill, the whole thing is still very suspicious) and that should be very motivational indeed since it is something I have wished for for a long time. I'm not afraid of losing or going back to 3kyu either. Thinking about that hasn't brought up any insights yet and probably won't at all, so I won't burn more time here and simply accept that it is another phase that is just normal and that will eventually pass. Since I cannot count on my discipline :roll: , my last hope now is my go playing "drug" - watching/reading a little Hikaru no Go has always helped to kindle the fire at least a little again. Playing more on a real board and reading other study journals here has always helped a little, too. However, I'd much appreciate any other suggestions! What helps you in this kind of situation? (and please do not write "I stop playing for a week or two" ;-) )

Well, I'll go play another two, maybe three games today to lessen the burden on June a little and then the whole thing will start tomorrow. Wish me luck. :-?

See you!

Ember


+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+

+++ Playing statistics +++
Date: 31 May 2014
Games played/to be played: 150 / 250
Days passed/to come: 151 / 214
Games won total: 87
Games lost total: 62
Jigo: 1
Winning percentage total: 58%
Landmarks: First win against KGS 3k on 5 January 2014 (unrated game, own rank: 4k, color: black, no komi), first win against KGS 3k in a rated game on 19 January 2014 (own rank: 4k, color: black, komi: 0,5 points), first time hitting 3k by playing and not by not-playing (25 January 2014), January: succeeded in playing the 34 games needed per month to reach 400 games by the end of the year, first win against a KGS 1k in a rated game (11 February 2014, own rank: 2k?, color: black, Komi: 0,5), first win against a KGS 2k in a rated game (12 February 2014, own rank: 3k, color: black, Komi: 0,5), scoring five wins out of six games in a tournament as 6k (February 2014), first win under tournament conditions against a 3kyu (10 April 2014, own rank: 5kyu), got a solid rank of KGS 3k (April 2014), scoring four wins out of five games in a tournament as 5kyu (April and May 2014), first win in a tournament against a 3kyu (11 May 2014, own rank: 5kyu), first reached KGS 2kyu by playing (18 May 2014);

_________________
Image

Top
 Profile  
 
Offline
 Post subject: Re: Ember's Rat Race
Post #89 Posted: Sat May 31, 2014 7:55 am 
Gosei
User avatar

Posts: 1810
Liked others: 490
Was liked: 365
Rank: KGS 1-dan
Ember wrote:
What helps you in this kind of situation?


I guess the real issue is asking yourself whether it is more important for you to reach your goal or to train/study efficiently?
There is really nothing you can do except amassing games, when you decide to go with the former (sucking it up and pushing the button ; ) ). As far as the latter is concerned: Amassing games in a short amount of time will most likely not have any serious training effect - especially without reviewing.

That being said: I'd go for the 50 games. Sometimes just pulling through a plan is already worth while - builds up confidence. You could still revamp your plan after succeeding with the first half =)

_________________
My "guide" to become stronger in Go


This post by SoDesuNe was liked by: Ember
Top
 Profile  
 
Offline
 Post subject: Re: Ember's Rat Race
Post #90 Posted: Sat May 31, 2014 1:10 pm 
Lives with ko
User avatar

Posts: 286
Location: Germany
Liked others: 146
Was liked: 81
Rank: EGF 3-4k - KGS 2-3k
Online playing schedule: A schedule..? When hell freezes over... maybe. ^^;
Thanks for writing, it is always motivating to get some feedback here! :) And I guess you're right: I should think less and just do it. Full stop.

@ Learning effect: Oh, I think that all these games I played did have a huge learning effect for me: I always played very little which lead to some bad habits: Playing too timidly and slowly and having not much confidence in my moves. Playing many games helped me a lot here (and surely to create some new ones I didn't even discover yet, yeah! ;-) ), the progress I made in the last few months proves that.
This way might not be the most efficient one to improve, I'll give you that (although I do review most of the games at least shortly, so it is not "just" playing), but since I have no clue how to really study efficiently from books and video lectures (so that it really sticks) apart from playing lots and trying to incorporate what I saw, heard and read, I'll have to continue like this. And I refuse to revamp! (yes, stubbornness issues again :) )

P.S.: Official number for June now is 48 games to be played. Let the fun begin. :rambo:

_________________
Image

Top
 Profile  
 
Offline
 Post subject: Re: Ember's Rat Race
Post #91 Posted: Mon Jun 02, 2014 9:40 am 
Gosei

Posts: 1387
Liked others: 139
Was liked: 111
GD Posts: 209
KGS: Marcus316
Good luck on your quest! If you see me on KGS sometime, maybe we can play a game! :D


This post by Marcus was liked by: Ember
Top
 Profile  
 
Offline
 Post subject: Re: Ember's Rat Race
Post #92 Posted: Tue Jun 03, 2014 12:34 pm 
Lives with ko

Posts: 227
Liked others: 9
Was liked: 11
Rank: KGS 4 Kyu
KGS: PeterN
Online playing schedule: KGS some weekday evenings GMT/BST
KGS weekends semi-randomly
Good luck on getting in the alloted games this time round, though I can't really give any advice on what keeps me playing, you looked at my games played and saw even silly losing streaks don't stop me! But just think, 50 games in a month isn't even two games per day.

If I see you on KGS I might try to be one of those 48 games as well :-)

PeterN


This post by PeterN was liked by: Ember
Top
 Profile  
 
Offline
 Post subject: Re: Ember's Rat Race
Post #93 Posted: Tue Jun 03, 2014 10:09 pm 
Lives with ko
User avatar

Posts: 286
Location: Germany
Liked others: 146
Was liked: 81
Rank: EGF 3-4k - KGS 2-3k
Online playing schedule: A schedule..? When hell freezes over... maybe. ^^;
@ Marcus: Sure, let's play! I guess our game would be fun because, looking at that last game you posted and the commentaries (at least the first 50 moves), I think we have a bit in common - e.g. I really like the Kobayashi Style, too. :) It would surely be interesting. I look out for you when I'm online!

@ PeterN: Thanks for your post! Well, my "loosing streak" extended to four losses of pretty much the same pattern on one day and I must admit that this made me a... bit angry. :roll: (triping over the same things time after time is very annoying) But at least it did one good thing to me: I want to play again and show that I can do better than that! Let's hope that this state will last for a bit.
Yes, it is not even two games a day, but after work two games is the very most I'm able to play and also there'll be quite a few weekends where I'll have other commitments than Go, so it will be tricky to get to 48 games. Right now, I still have only 4 games played - but that will change today after work. :rambo: If you see me on KGS, of course we can play a game! I'll look out for you, too. :)

Thanks to both of you for your support! :)

_________________
Image

Top
 Profile  
 
Offline
 Post subject: Re: Ember's Rat Race
Post #94 Posted: Sat Jun 07, 2014 4:32 am 
Lives with ko
User avatar

Posts: 286
Location: Germany
Liked others: 146
Was liked: 81
Rank: EGF 3-4k - KGS 2-3k
Online playing schedule: A schedule..? When hell freezes over... maybe. ^^;
Small update:

So far, this week has been no good. I have done nearly no tsumego, have watched no lesson yet (although I cancelled any plans to do so regularly) and - most importantly - I have only played 5 games so far in June. I should have have played about three times as much as that by now... Well, fortunately, it's weekend AND Monday is a holiday, so I hope that I'll be able to catch up on my number of games - 20 games total by monday evening will be my short-term goal for the next three days, more if possible. Then I'd be back on track (or even better than that depending on how many games I get to play).
Hopefully, my winning quota will be better then, too. So far, I lost all the games I played this month which I have to admit irritated me after the first four games a great deal, although four or five games isn't really that much. The last months have been so successful that I wasn't really used to that anymore. :oops: Maybe I have reached another point from which progress will be much slower, we'll see. Anyways, since the last game I'm back on track and simply happy to have played another game, just as it should be.

Well, I'll be off to you-know-where. ;-) Have a great weekend!

Ember

_________________
Image

Top
 Profile  
 
Offline
 Post subject: Re: Ember's Rat Race
Post #95 Posted: Mon Jun 09, 2014 2:20 pm 
Lives with ko
User avatar

Posts: 286
Location: Germany
Liked others: 146
Was liked: 81
Rank: EGF 3-4k - KGS 2-3k
Online playing schedule: A schedule..? When hell freezes over... maybe. ^^;
Weekly Update #19

Thanks to my boyfriend, who played five games with me tonight (on a real board for a change), I made it and played 20 games to this day (thanks again!!). First week, first step to reaching this month's goal! But since it is only the first step, I can't be too happy about that now. The hardest part, keeping up with the schedule and playing 1-2 games a day on average, is yet to come, especially in such a busy month as June and during all that summer heat that has crept out of nearly nowhere...

Let's see how this will work out! The goal for next week will be 12 games (or more, if possible) - a little more than what would be the average of the remaining games to be played. However, since I'll be going to a Go meeting on Saturday and Sunday, it is definitely doable (and being a little ahead is always a good thing :roll: ).

That's it for today with a very short update. I wish you all a nice week!

Ember


+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+

+++ Playing statistics +++
Date: 9 June 2014
Games played/to be played: 172 / 228
Days passed/to come: 160 / 205
Games won total: 97
Games lost total: 73
Jigo: 2
Winning percentage total: 56%
Landmarks: First win against KGS 3k on 5 January 2014 (unrated game, own rank: 4k, color: black, no komi), first win against KGS 3k in a rated game on 19 January 2014 (own rank: 4k, color: black, komi: 0,5 points), first time hitting 3k by playing and not by not-playing (25 January 2014), January: succeeded in playing the 34 games needed per month to reach 400 games by the end of the year, first win against a KGS 1k in a rated game (11 February 2014, own rank: 2k?, color: black, Komi: 0,5), first win against a KGS 2k in a rated game (12 February 2014, own rank: 3k, color: black, Komi: 0,5), scoring five wins out of six games in a tournament as 6k (February 2014), first win under tournament conditions against a 3kyu (10 April 2014, own rank: 5kyu), got a solid rank of KGS 3k (April 2014), scoring four wins out of five games in a tournament as 5kyu (April and May 2014), first win in a tournament against a 3kyu (11 May 2014, own rank: 5kyu), first reached KGS 2kyu by playing (18 May 2014), stabilised at KGS 2kyu (June 2014)

_________________
Image

Top
 Profile  
 
Offline
 Post subject: Ember trains for Japan
Post #96 Posted: Sun Apr 12, 2015 6:23 am 
Lives with ko
User avatar

Posts: 286
Location: Germany
Liked others: 146
Was liked: 81
Rank: EGF 3-4k - KGS 2-3k
Online playing schedule: A schedule..? When hell freezes over... maybe. ^^;
*dusting off the thread* *cough*

Hello everybody, I'm back!

A lot of time has passed since my last post here... a lot of time indeed. 2014 is already over and - to make it short - my "Rat Race"-goals have not come true. I had to take a break last June because I got sick - nothing bad, but I had been feeling exhausted and sick for weeks and finally decided to take a short break until I felt better again - which led to (let's be honest here) me getting lazy. That's why I didn't reach my goal of playing 400 games in 2014, I finished the year at "only" 241 games - which still is a LOT for me, probably as much as I played the last 2 or 3 years together.


+++ Looking back at 2014+++
A few weeks after my forced break in June I tried to get motivated again and in the end also started to take online lessons. I liked them a lot and I can tell that they really helped me but unfortunately they also led to some great frustration on my part. If you really feel that you're getting better and also get this feedback but are STILL loosing all your league games for several months in a row, this can be a real killer for motivation.. Of course, winning is not everything, but it led to me playing less and less games until I only logged in to get my weekly slaughter - which is not the way to improvement. Tournament results also went down towards the end of the year after a really good start in the first half of 2014, so the year ended not as positive as it started. Not everything was bad, of course: as I already said I still played a lot (for my standards) and I FINALLY broke through my 6k barrier and now play as 4-5k EGF! However, I wanted to feel happy about Go again and continuing to play in that mindset wouldn't be of any help. That's why I decided in December that I wanted to take a break. Since then about 4 months have passed again... how time flies!


+++ 2015 so far and beyond +++
For this year, I haven't yet aimed at such a goal but - you might have already guessed it - have been lazy AGAIN. "Taking a break" is such a comfortable excuse! :oops: However, summer draws near quite quickly and with it the Osaka Go Camp for which MagicMagor and I registered. :D In about 10 weeks we are off to our first trip to Japan and I really want to use the remaining weeks until then to get back in shape: No tournaments so far this year and only some 10-20 games in 2015 with little to no tsumego training definitely won't have helped me so far out of my slump. But I don't want to make a fool out of myself in Japan! And since warming up before you exercise is always recommended I thought about a few goals until June 15th:

  • for reading practise do 50 (or more) tsumego per day from Cho Chikuns Encyclopedia of Life and Death starting with part 1 - elementary (after that continue with part 2, etc., I might add problems from other books like 501 Tesuji Problems, etc., too)
  • play at least 50 games until then
  • review at least 1 mistake from each game and take a quick note about what I learned from the analysis
  • 30-60 minutes of study of various topics (starting with joseki) per week together with MagicMagor on a real board


I don't have a lot of time to put into studying Go at the moment and I really hope that I can make it. But I already was in a similar situation last year and therefore know that establishing a study routine is vital here. This can take as much as 3 weeks of daily commitment, so the first three weeks will be crucial to the plan. After that I'll make a little review to see how far I've come with that. Until then I'll try to give short daily reports in a fixed form tailored to my goals above including a game here and there, like Abyssinica did here on 19x19 for quite some time.

And now I'm off to work! :study:

_________________
Image

Top
 Profile  
 
Offline
 Post subject: Re: Ember trains for Japan
Post #97 Posted: Mon Apr 13, 2015 10:55 pm 
Lives with ko
User avatar

Posts: 286
Location: Germany
Liked others: 146
Was liked: 81
Rank: EGF 3-4k - KGS 2-3k
Online playing schedule: A schedule..? When hell freezes over... maybe. ^^;
Didn't get to post it but I started. Even though work was crazy yesterday and I longed for nothing more than something to eat and the couch I motivatedly dashed at my tsumego book when I got home and did the rest of my daily dosis (while waiting for the sushi to arrive). The first two days in a short version:

Preliminary / Day 1: Sunday, April 12th
  • at least 50 Tsumego: check (50 from Cho Chikun's Encyclopedia, start tomorrow at 51/900)
  • play 50 games until June 15th: 0/50
  • review at least 1 situation from each game and write down shortly what I've learned: -
  • weekly Go study: -


Week 1 / Day 2: Monday April 13th
  • at least 50 Tsumego: check (51 from Cho Chikun's Encyclopedia, start tomorrow at 102/900)
  • play 50 games until June 15th: 0/50
  • review at least 1 situation from each game and write down shortly what I've learned: -
  • weekly Go study: -

I doubt that I'll be able to start playing before thursday which is the next day our team plays in the German Go-Bundesliga. I'll have to face a 3k, so it will definitely be a hard game. I hope that it will be an interesting game, too - if so, I'll post it here.

I'll be back tonight for today's report!

Best wishes

Ember

_________________
Image

Top
 Profile  
 
Offline
 Post subject: Re: Ember trains for Japan
Post #98 Posted: Tue Apr 14, 2015 2:47 pm 
Lives with ko
User avatar

Posts: 286
Location: Germany
Liked others: 146
Was liked: 81
Rank: EGF 3-4k - KGS 2-3k
Online playing schedule: A schedule..? When hell freezes over... maybe. ^^;
Week 1 / Day 3: Tuesday April 14th

  • at least 50 Tsumego: check (50 from Cho Chikun's Encyclopedia, start tomorrow at 152/900; plus 6 Daily Problems from the TsumeGo Pro App)
  • play 50 games until June 15th: 0/50
  • review at least 1 situation from each game and write down shortly what I've learned: -
  • weekly Go study: -

_________________
Image

Top
 Profile  
 
Offline
 Post subject: Re: Ember trains for Japan
Post #99 Posted: Thu Apr 16, 2015 3:14 pm 
Lives with ko
User avatar

Posts: 286
Location: Germany
Liked others: 146
Was liked: 81
Rank: EGF 3-4k - KGS 2-3k
Online playing schedule: A schedule..? When hell freezes over... maybe. ^^;
Week 1 / Day 4: Wednesday April 15th

  • at least 50 Tsumego: check (50 from Cho Chikun's Encyclopedia, start tomorrow at 202/900; plus 6 Daily Problems from the TsumeGo Pro App)
  • play 50 games until June 15th: 0/50
  • review at least 1 situation from each game and write down shortly what I've learned: -
  • weekly Go study: -


Week 1 / Day 5: Thursday April 16th

  • at least 50 Tsumego: check (50 from Cho Chikun's Encyclopedia, start tomorrow at 252/900; plus 6 Daily Problems from the TsumeGo Pro App)
  • play 50 games until June 15th: 1/50
  • review at least 1 situation from each game and write down shortly what I've learned: -
  • weekly Go study: -

_________________
Image

Top
 Profile  
 
Offline
 Post subject: Re: Ember trains for Japan
Post #100 Posted: Thu Apr 16, 2015 3:38 pm 
Oza
User avatar

Posts: 2408
Location: Ghent, Belgium
Liked others: 359
Was liked: 1019
Rank: KGS 2d OGS 1d Fox 4d
KGS: Artevelde
OGS: Knotwilg
Online playing schedule: UTC 18:00 - 22:00
Hi Ember

It is perfectly normal that a poor winning percentage kills motivation. This is why I advocate for such cases to include short term improvement goals that have a radical and proven impact on your winning percentage, generating a positive feedback mechanism beyond mere "understanding". These focus areas include mentality, playing conditions and time management, areas of improvement which are often neglected in study paths. In particular:
- refrein from early resignation, even don't resign ever as An antidote
- don't lose on time, as a corollary play games with decent time settings
- as a counterpart, use the time you have
- enquete a good network connection
- don't play when sleepy, drunk or high on caffeine, or doing other stuff
- avoid playing on small gear

In case you are tickled by this perspective, I'll offer some more

This doesn't mean you should not study any real go stuff, but these measures will boost your winning percentage regardless and reduce frustration about not playing up to your study level.

Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 102 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6  Next

All times are UTC - 8 hours [ DST ]


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
Powered by phpBB © 2000, 2002, 2005, 2007 phpBB Group