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 Post subject: Hello Everyone!
Post #1 Posted: Fri Jan 09, 2015 4:35 pm 
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Hi guys!!

I started playing Go a week ago, and i got quite addicted to it :P
But i do recognize being a complete newbie :oops:

Anyways i did the brief tour on the moves from "The Interactive Way To Go" (my first tutorial on go), and got the igowin program to try against the machine as the problems on the way to go were rather simple, even to me.

The 9x9 game against igowin starts easily as it gives you a lot of advantage, and as you level up it starts taking it away, i could beat it by simple "holding the line" with the given advantage until the match starts even or with a stone in my advantage, there i realized my flawed tactic as the ai beat me again and again, she pushed, i holded the line but in the end the ai ends with more territory than i do (as long as i dont do any "how i didnt saw that" mistake, otherwise its a massacre for me :P).

I thought in reading life/dead problems and such to avoid mistakes and hopefully play stronger to beat that mean machine :mrgreen: when i read some people on the web suggesting to start playing the 19x19 board rather than spending time on the small board and learn that way with the "real" game.

So i gave it a try, got a program and tried in 19x19... i got owned at the lowest levels.
The board was huge, it appeared like an ocean to me, i could secure some corners or even sides as in 9x9, but the ai owned most of the board. if i played defensively i give away most of the board, and if i tried to rapidly expand, first i wasnt sure were to go (19x19 is big) and secondly my pieces felt "weak" out there in the centre.

So what should i do?, go back to 9x9 until i have a more solid knowledge and then jump to 19x19, or stay in 19x19 and try to figure out how to expand away from the corners/sides?

In the mean time i better go back to :study: the basics, later guys!


This post by Npaz was liked by: Bonobo
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 Post subject: Re: Hello Everyone!
Post #2 Posted: Fri Jan 09, 2015 5:21 pm 
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Welcome to the best board game ever*!

The most important part is if you're having fun.

If you still feel lost on 19x19, then stick with 9x9 until that starts to feel boring.

Doing problems is never wrong.

Don't sweat it if you don't really get it for now. Playing games, even if you lose most of them, is the best way to get a bit of an idea what you should be doing. You'll gradually start to get a feel for it, after around 50-100 games.


(* based on poll data sampled in a deliberately biased manner from unverifiable sources)


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 Post subject: Re: Hello Everyone!
Post #3 Posted: Fri Jan 09, 2015 5:23 pm 
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Welcome, Npaz,

Npaz wrote:
[..] when i read some people on the web suggesting to start playing the 19x19 board rather than spending time on the small board and learn that way with the "real" game.
IMHO 9x9 is just as “real”, only a better way for beginners to learn life & death, fighting, staying alive and killing much faster.

Quote:
So what should i do?, go back to 9x9 until i have a more solid knowledge
First of all I’d recommend playing humans because Igowin will quickly teach you bad practise. And I’d recommend playing a few dozen games on 9x9, then 13x13, before you …
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[..] jump to 19x19
I know there are a few who will dissent here but — never mind :-D

Quote:
or stay in 19x19 and try to figure out how to expand away from the corners/sides? [..]
One question: how resistant to pain and frustration are you?

I think it will be a LOT easier to find people who play you with 2-4 Handicap on 9x9 or 5-7 HC on 13x13 than with 9 or even 14 stones on a 19x19 board. And if you play on the 19x19 board without Handicap, then your opponent better be a good teacher and not a sadist.

I wish you lots of fun on your Go journey. Do lots of Tsumego and play people, not bots!

Cheers, Tom

(BTW just this evening I played a Real Life game against 14 stones on 19x19. Black won by 33.5 points.)

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“Whenever you find yourself on the side of the majority, it is time to pause and reflect.” — Mark Twain ★ Come and play on OGS

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 Post subject: Re: Hello Everyone!
Post #4 Posted: Fri Jan 09, 2015 8:14 pm 
Oza

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on the other hand, there's nothing wrong with continuing on a 19x19. You'll catch on eventually :)
Just review your games and try to figure out where you went wrong and how you might have done better (not necessarily win). And we'll all be glad to help you with your reviews too.

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 Post subject: Re: Hello Everyone!
Post #5 Posted: Mon Jan 12, 2015 3:34 pm 
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Maybe check out a commented go games for getting the feel of the big board? I like the Sibicky videos on YouTube. He walks through the plays and why they make sense or not, I like that it's not all pro games. There's all levels of games commented. Seeing people play at my level (making big mistakes) was helpful to me. Opening theory on a 19x19 is a pretty big topic! A lot of new ideas.

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 Post subject: Re: Hello Everyone!
Post #6 Posted: Mon Jan 12, 2015 9:27 pm 
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Welcome!

Transitioning from 9x9 to 19x19 will be tricky no matter when you do it. I think most of us find the 19x19 board overwhelming at first. There's no "right" point to switch from one size to another, and you may continue to play the occasional 9x9 game even when most of your games are on the larger board. Do whatever is fun for you!

You should look for human opponents as soon as you're comfortable doing so, though. I think it adds something to the game even when the person is a mostly anonymous internet presence. Besides, playing the same computer all the time will train some bad habits. Computers aren't very good at giving advice, either. Many people are willing to help beginners along a little bit.

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