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 Post subject: Why climu left ASR and his concern about it.
Post #1 Posted: Tue Sep 06, 2016 11:33 am 
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Hi guys,
Some of you may now that I worked for ASR around 1 year and a half.
This thread is here to explain why I left ASR and in what circumstances that happens.

ASR has a long history and had lots of internal issue during the past. Some of those were quite hard to understand afterwards.
The intend of this post is to prevent this misunderstanding in the future regarding my leaving of ASR.

This might have little interest in your opinion and if so, just don't read.

Of course I can only give my point of view of this matter and I don't pretend otherwise.
For reader's sake, I will try not to go into specifics but stay concise.

First, please allow me to explain the circumstances:
In February 2016 I join usagi restarting ASR after a period where it really went down.
Usagi built a new php software for the league and integrate it with a new wordpress installation while I set up various things (email adress, paypal, wordpress forum...)
Thanks to a very generous donator we were able to give nice prize to winners of our league and the league rises once again.
Soon, Usagi left for personal reasons and gave me the keys to ASR.
I knew I couldn't run ASR by myself so I ask a former ASR volunteer I already worked with (Litchee) to join me. He kindly agreed.
I can't count the hours I spent improving the php software (I learned php in the process) so administration of the league would be easyer, managing the community, delivering prizes, reaching with past and new sponsors...
It kinda work and the community was rising. We had strong dans joining and two 6d + proposing free teaching content.
My intent was to build a team to run ASR and left them the keys because it took me way too much time.

Why did I quit:
In June a user were very active in our forum: LinuxGoo.
Since we constantly lack manpower, we thought he could help us manage the forum.
After a quick chat on kgs with him, I felt he was so rude with me that I couldn't ever work with him.
At first all our team thought we couldn't work with him, but after talking with him, Litchee changes his mind.
Litchee argue to try have him to the team regardless of his rudeness because he have worked in marketing and we could use his expertise in that area.
We tryed. I were never able to have a chat with linuxGooo without him telling me very rude how wrong I was doing things without giving me a way to improve.
Soon it appeared that, as I saw it coming, we couldn't work together.
In the meantime, Litchee has started being a lot more distant with me and when it come again to the point that I can't work with linuxGooo, he said he would rather work with him instead of me.
I was quite frustrated, planing to go to Japon for a month in August, so I didn't thought I could run the league by my own.
So I left, I gave Litchee the keys to ASR (including paypal account).

What is the situation now?

LinuxGoo is managing ASR website.
He is destroying the worked I have made on editing various lecture and game commentary.
When I asked why on the website, my comment was trashed.
The league is going down again, and their solution about it is to tweak the stats.
Again, asking about it result in comment being trashed.
Litchee is asking from time to time advices regarding ASR website (to which I always answer) but he doesn't answer my emails, nor my skype chat, nor kgs chat.
Update: after various attempt on kgs, I got an answer: "Indeed I didn't answer your mail yet" litchee said.

Clearly I see my work endangered and I feel sorry for that.

I didn't went onto specifics in there because this is already quite boring as it is but rather gave my view of the issue. If you have any question, feel free to ask.

As I said, this post is here for future reader to understand ASR history.

Edit: To allow reader to follow easily devellopments since this post, here's a summary.

  • I explained here how they tweak the stats.
  • They baned me from ASR and made the room private for some times
  • They undermine the creator of gouniverse work here with warning from L19 staff.


Last edited by climu on Sat Feb 25, 2017 1:26 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Why climu left ASR and his concern about it.
Post #2 Posted: Tue Sep 06, 2016 1:05 pm 
Gosei
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Sad to see that LinuxGooo is behaving in a disruptive manner again … he’s been notorious about one-and-a-half or two years ago in several online places for spamming links to his blog (where he was—and perhaps still is—mostly “borrowing” content), and for being rude & insulting anybody who dared to criticize his behaviour (so apparently he hasn’t changed) … he’s also back on L19 with a second account “LinuxGooo2016” – no idea why he needs two accounts here (old LinuxGooo profile). A copy & paste con artist, I’d say.

Thanks for the information, climu. I have never been around the ASR, due to lack of time, but have been watching from afar since I like to know what’s going on in the Go world … but when I recently saw that LG was posting for the ASR I wondered how long it would take until it was all in shards, but also hoped that maybe he’d had some insight … it appears that all such hopes were in vain :mad:


<edit>

And as for your work, climu, I fear the best you can do now is to follow the motto of the song: “Hold on tightly, let go lightly …”

</edit>

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Post #3 Posted: Tue Sep 06, 2016 4:57 pm 
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Hmm. :-|

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 Post subject: Re: Why climu left ASR and his concern about it.
Post #4 Posted: Tue Sep 06, 2016 7:31 pm 
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Loved your edited lectures. Thanks for the hard work. May you have great success in whatever you decide to do in the future.

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 Post subject: Re: Why climu left ASR and his concern about it.
Post #5 Posted: Tue Sep 06, 2016 11:02 pm 
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@Bonobo: Thanks for the informations on LinuxGooo. I got plenty of such comments on reddit too. In a way it's comforting for me: Since I didn't want to harm ASR at first, I didn't mention those issue and finally ended up doubting my own judgement there.
Thanks for the song too !

@tchan001: thanks a lot for the support.


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 Post subject: Re: Why climu left ASR and his concern about it.
Post #6 Posted: Wed Sep 07, 2016 1:34 am 
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[deleted]

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Last edited by Bonobo on Wed Sep 07, 2016 5:10 am, edited 2 times in total.
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 Post subject: Re: Why climu left ASR and his concern about it.
Post #7 Posted: Wed Sep 07, 2016 2:27 am 
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Are the keys irretrievable?

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 Post subject: Re: Why climu left ASR and his concern about it.
Post #8 Posted: Wed Sep 07, 2016 3:18 am 
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Bonobo wrote:

And just in case people “meet” him on the ’net, here are other nicks


Did he disclose this information pubicly or are you using background information? I don't think it is clever to share this rather confidential information, even if it served him right. Someone being a **** is not an excuse to disclose his name, at least as long we are not talking about fraud or convictions. On Reddit I don't care, but lifein19x19 shouldn't be the place for public shaming. It's a slippery slope.

I dont know Linusgoo nor do I defend him, I am only concerned about privacy issues.

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 Post subject: Re: Why climu left ASR and his concern about it.
Post #9 Posted: Wed Sep 07, 2016 4:50 am 
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bayu wrote:
Did he disclose this information pubicly or are you using background information?

Well, he was in that FB group with his other nicks (w/ same avatar image) after being kicked as “LinuxGooo”, so all one has to do is connect the points … he disclosed it himself by joining with different nicks with easily identifiable avatar images and diction.

But I took out his real name from the above post to disperse any worries.

Quote:
[..] Someone being a d**ck is not an excuse to disclose his name, at least as long we are not talking about fraud or convictions. [..]

Privacy is for protection of people, right?

But if people bully and attack other people and their work, those other people and their work should rather be protected, no? I’m all for disclosing bullies’ identities. “Privacy” should not be used to protect bullies, harassers, stalkers, etc.

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Last edited by Bonobo on Wed Sep 07, 2016 5:09 am, edited 2 times in total.
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 Post subject: Re: Why climu left ASR and his concern about it.
Post #10 Posted: Wed Sep 07, 2016 5:05 am 
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Bonobo wrote:
bayu wrote:
Did he disclose this information pubicly or are you using background information?

Well, he was in that FB group with his other nicks (w/ same avatar image) after being kicked as “LinuxGooo”, so all one has to do is connect the points … he disclosed it himself by joining with different nicks with easily identifiable avatar images and diction.

But I took out his real name from the above post to disperse any worries.

Quote:
[..] Someone being a d**ck is not an excuse to disclose his name, at least as long we are not talking about fraud or convictions. [..]

Privacy is for protection of people, right?

But if people bully and attack other people and their work, those other people and their work should rather be protected, no? I’m all for disclosing bullies’ identities. “Privacy” should not be used to protect bullies, harassers, stalkers, etc.


IMO, outing someone on the Internet is just not cool unless they did something illegal, in which case you should report it to the authorities. Who are you to make arbitrary rules about who should and should not be outed? Who makes you judge and jury of this forum or of this person? By disclosing his/her personal private information, then you are becoming or enabling bullying just as you are complaining of his/her actions. You are acting at the same level of abhorrent behavior.


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 Post subject: Re: Why climu left ASR and his concern about it.
Post #11 Posted: Wed Sep 07, 2016 5:15 am 
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Go_Japan wrote:
Bonobo wrote:
[..] if people bully and attack other people and their work, those other people and their work should rather be protected, no? I’m all for disclosing bullies’ identities. “Privacy” should not be used to protect bullies, harassers, stalkers, etc.


IMO, outing someone on the Internet is just not cool unless they did something illegal, in which case you should report it to the authorities. Who are you to make arbitrary rules about who should and should not be outed? Who makes you judge and jury of this forum or of this person? By disclosing his/her personal private information, then you are becoming or enabling bullying just as you are complaining of his/her actions. You are acting at the same level of abhorrent behavior.


Thanks for giving your opinion on this. I disagree but have deleted my above comment because it’s just too annoying to discuss when people defend perpetrators rather than those who are harmed by them. We’re making it all too easy for creeps if we allow them to keep on doing their thing in private.

Also, it’s not about being cool but rather to prevent more of this sh!t.

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 Post subject: Re: Why climu left ASR and his concern about it.
Post #12 Posted: Wed Sep 07, 2016 5:23 am 
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Bonobo wrote:
Go_Japan wrote:
Bonobo wrote:
[..] if people bully and attack other people and their work, those other people and their work should rather be protected, no? I’m all for disclosing bullies’ identities. “Privacy” should not be used to protect bullies, harassers, stalkers, etc.


IMO, outing someone on the Internet is just not cool unless they did something illegal, in which case you should report it to the authorities. Who are you to make arbitrary rules about who should and should not be outed? Who makes you judge and jury of this forum or of this person? By disclosing his/her personal private information, then you are becoming or enabling bullying just as you are complaining of his/her actions. You are acting at the same level of abhorrent behavior.


Thanks for giving your opinion on this. I disagree but have deleted my above comment because it’s just too annoying to discuss when people defend perpetrators rather than those who are harmed by them. We’re making it all too easy for creeps if we allow them to keep on doing their thing in private.

Also, it’s not about being cool but rather to prevent more of this sh!t.


Thank you. I am all for stopping people from bullying or acting badly. I think we can agree on that. I just do not think making it possible for people to take revenge in person or by other means by releasting personal information is a good idea.

Just to add, I have no personal or any other connection to either the OP of this thread or to the accused abuser. This is the first I read about any of this, so I am not really involved. I have played in ASR league recently and a long time ago. I have the same problems now as I ever did... I cannot find games in my time zone once I leave the placement league. lol.

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 Post subject: Re: Why climu left ASR and his concern about it.
Post #13 Posted: Wed Sep 07, 2016 8:05 am 
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DrStraw wrote:
Are the keys irretrievable?


Well kinda.
I am not going to be working with LinuxGooo nor Litchee and I doubt very much thoses guys will give ASR back to me.
On top of that I don't think I am going to be involve in online community soon again. That was enuf for me I guess.

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 Post subject: Re: Why climu left ASR and his concern about it.
Post #14 Posted: Wed Sep 07, 2016 8:44 am 
Gosei
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climu wrote:
On top of that I don't think I am going to be involve in online community soon again. That was enuf for me I guess.

Quite understandable, but … very sad :cry:

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 Post subject: Re: Why climu left ASR and his concern about it.
Post #15 Posted: Wed Sep 07, 2016 4:09 pm 
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Thanks for the info.

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Post #16 Posted: Thu Sep 08, 2016 12:27 pm 
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Thank you for sharing, climu. I was debating whether I should join ASR but I was having misgivings so I decided to wait in case something like this came up. Sadly such things happen too often to online communities in my experience.

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 Post subject: Re: Why climu left ASR and his concern about it.
Post #17 Posted: Sun Oct 23, 2016 4:44 pm 
Gosei
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FYI:
Attachment:
ASR Screen Shot 2016-10-23 at 22.46.23.png
ASR Screen Shot 2016-10-23 at 22.46.23.png [ 207.71 KiB | Viewed 1103 times ]
Original “ASR” post on G+
my “documentation” of this on G+ (see image above (and yeah, that missing genitive “’s”, sorry for that)), and please cf. Ilya Kirillov’s (aka KOCMOHABT’s) enlightening reply there.
ASR post
ASR forum entry

Can you spell t-r-o-v-e-r?

The admins here may want to take note … L19 user (old) LinuxGooo alias L19 user (new) LinuxGooo2016, and perhaps all posts by any ASR “officials” probably coming from one and the same person (who seems to have the “keys” to everything ASR now; I’d even want to challenge the authenticity of the current “lychee” persona).

________
forensic evidence, eh?

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 Post subject: Re: Why climu left ASR and his concern about it.
Post #18 Posted: Mon Oct 24, 2016 3:38 am 
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Yes they just dicovered Gouniverse and pretend it's an exclusive ASR feature to play kgs without javascript...

The best of it is:

ASR Master wrote:
We are in an intensive dialogue with the programmer to develope the application further on to cover your needs.

and 2 days later:
Ilya Kirillov wrote:
Thanks, Thomas. I even didn't knew about this in fact, it's seems strange that they have wrote that they have contacted with developer.


As for ASR owners:

Bonobo wrote:
The admins here may want to take note … L19 user (old) LinuxGooo alias L19 user (new) LinuxGooo2016, and perhaps all posts by any ASR “officials” probably coming from one and the same person (who seems to have the “keys” to everything ASR now;

I would say (and always have) he manage ASR website at least.
I still think Litchee owns ASR but I think he will mostly follow LinuxGoo calls.
As for the ASR account on ASR website, reddit, L19 and more I think they share it. I have to say that I don't recognise Litchee plume when I read them tho.

Bonobo wrote:
I’d even want to challenge the authenticity of the current “lychee” persona).

I wouldn't. I know Litchee since I worked with him. I even had video/audio conference with him.
I recently had some chat with him in kgs. I went nowhere interesting: he pretend I insulted him without explaining me how/when/why and said he will at one point answer my emails (2 month waiting already).

The strange thing is that they don't list LinuxGoo as a ASR admin at all. I think they keep him hidden because of his internet reputation.


Anyway thanks for documenting on this.


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 Post subject: Re: Why climu left ASR and his concern about it.
Post #19 Posted: Fri Oct 28, 2016 2:27 am 
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Since I still have my account on ASR website, I was wondering if I were still counted as a member and if I was still welcome in the league.
So yesterday I went on kgs and asked.

ASRLeague threaten to get a lawyer to put me in front of a court.

climu: Hi ASR.
climu: I was wondering... I still have my account on ASR website, does it mean I am still welcome to play in the league?
climu: oh, you also have a 3rd admin: AsrLeague !
climu: maybe this misterious man/women can answer?
oren: It's Gooo! :)
climu: sush... it's a secret I guess...
climu: isn't it?
oren: no clue
oren: seemed too obvious to be secret
climu: why have 2 account and 2 admin listed then?
oren: maybe separate the playing account and admin account?
climu: yup, probably
climu: I fear neither the admin, nor the player will answer me. should I take that as a :"go away !"?
oren: well, to be fair it is somewhat late over there
climu: ok. probably
Nachtmahr: linux is online , he isa admin
climu: indeed.
climu: ASRleague was online too at one point...
climu: if admins don't talk, maybe community will...
climu: what do you guys thing?
climu: *think...
AsrLeague: Climu leave the room
climu: hi
climu: why?
AsrLeague: you are no more a person we wish to be here.. a persona-non-grata
climu: that is a clear answer to my question. thanks. May I ask why?
AsrLeague: you are since longer blocked from playing in the league, as you hurt heavily the rules
climu: how did I do that?
AsrLeague: you damage in public heavily the image of ASR. you clearly know what we are talking about. Point. Leave the room now
climu: I think the damage come from you not answering. but... well.
AsrLeague: LEAVE THE ROOM !
climu: can you at least remove my account on ASR website?
climu: So I am not counted as a member?
AsrLeague: Your account is frozen. what is a persona-non-grata ?
climu: ok, I can connect still. At least I got an answer. thanks
climu: I hope you enjoy the league tools I built ;)
AsrLeague: False statements in public, assusing the new asr team to be liars etc. ... its enough. Or shall a lawyer bring you front court in South France ?
AsrLeague: accusing*
AsrLeague: Stop bashing, stop stalking, stop to create an atmosphere which tociates the whole ASR community.
climu: where did I bash here?
AsrLeague: LEAVE THE ROOM !
climu: As for false things, please, pease please explain me where/how
climu: you never did
climu: ok, I am out.
AsrLeague: yes, you are out.
climu: but wow... you guys...


Then he decided to make ASR room private.
Quote:
AsrLeague: this room now will be closed. all league members will have access very soon in one-two hours after we setup this room as "private". All 349 players, inclusive the "candates" for next months will have access very soon again.


I was asked by a kgs admin to leave ASR room because it's now a private kgs room.

Thought it had to be known.


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 Post subject: Re: Why climu left ASR and his concern about it.
Post #20 Posted: Fri Oct 28, 2016 2:31 am 
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That sure sounds like a good way to attract new members.

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