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 Post subject: Go Basic Training Series- Life and Death book review
Post #1 Posted: Wed May 09, 2018 10:24 pm 
Lives with ko

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Hi all,

Please see my reviews of the other books in the series here;

Tesuji; viewtopic.php?f=17&t=15712
Capturing Races; viewtopic.php?f=57&t=15740

The following is a review of the Life and Death books from that series.

The three books in the series;

Image

ISBN's (in order of difficulty)
9787564412630
9787564412647
9787564412708

The books are again separated in to levels; 5k, 1k, 1D. Each book is divided in to sections, containing problems linked by a theme. Each section begins with a number of worked examples, that may include diagrams for an incorrect answer. There are 50 of these examples in both the 1st and 2nd books, and 55 in the 3rd. These could also be treated as extra problems, but are not included in the problem counts below. All the books in this series have 6 problems per page (except for the examples, which is 2 per page) with a single correct answer diagram in the back of the book.

Book 1
contains 288 problems.
The indicated rating of 5k seems quite soft. I am around that rank, and can solve many problems on sight, or have the correct first move immediately apparent with simple, straight forward reading to confirm. I would say that it is about the level of Graded Go Problems for Beginners volume 2. There are several sections that remind me very much of Jump Level Up 1 (making false eyes to kill, using shortage of liberties etc.). Probably more suitable for around 10k upwards, but I enjoyed it as a quick review of different techniques.

Sections (very rough translations).
1. Living (1)
2. Killing (1)
3. Living (2)
4. Killing (2)
5. Seki
6. Ko (to live)
7. Ko (to kill)
8. Not entirely sure. Seems to be "real life" i.e. positions from real games?

Example problems;

Problem 1, Black to play and live;

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$B
$$ +---------------------------+
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . , . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O O O O O O . . , . . . |
$$ | . O X X X X O . . . . . . |
$$ | X X . . O X O . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X O O . . . . . . . |
$$ +---------------------------+[/go]


Harder problems later on, problem 256, from the ko to kill section. Black to play;

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$B
$$ +---------------------------+
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . , . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X X , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | O O O X X . X . . . . . . |
$$ | . X . O . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ +---------------------------+[/go]



Book 2
also contain 288 problems. Indicated rank is 1k, but likely all these books have soft ratings. I think 1k might mean "As a 1k, you should know all of this". Seems to be around the level of Lee Changho L&D 2.

Sections are the same as book 1, just at a higher difficulty.

Example problems;

Problem 1, black to play and live;

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$B
$$ +---------------------------+
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . , . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . O . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O O X X O . . . , . . . |
$$ | . O X O O X . . . . . . . |
$$ | X X X . . O O . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ +---------------------------+[/go]


Problem 221, Black to play and make a ko to live;

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$B
$$ +---------------------------+
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . , . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X O O O . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . X X O . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X O . O . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ +---------------------------+[/go]



Book 3
contains 264 sections. Indicated rank is 1D. No comment on difficulty from me, they certainly seem to be above my level, but I haven't spent any real time trying to solve them.

Sections
1. Living (1)
2. Killing (1)
3. Same as the last two books last sections "real life" (1)
4. Living (2)
5. Killing (2)
6. Seki
7. Ko to live
8. Ko to kill
9. Living (3)
10. Killing (3)
11. "Real life" (2)

Example problems;

Problem 1, black to play and live;

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$B
$$ +---------------------------+
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . , . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O . O . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O X O . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . X O X O O . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X . X X O . O . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ +---------------------------+[/go]


Problem 242, from the last section. Black to play and kill

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$B
$$ +---------------------------+
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . , . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X X , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . O O X X X . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O O X . X . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ +---------------------------+[/go]


Some general thoughts

Printing is quite good. Problems seem to be of a high quality, with many realistic shapes from games. I like that the ko and seki problems receive sections of their own, rather than being mixed in. It probably does make them easier, but I feel it's useful to improve recognition of the shapes where these are possible. Certainly a pretty good deal, with each book having a RRP of 18 yuan. I think I paid about 120 yuan for all 12 books + shipping. Little to no knowledge of Chinese needed, as the examples at the beginning of the chapters shows what techniques will be used in the following problems. Well worth buying, in my opinion, for SDK looking for more L&D problems to solve.


Last edited by zac on Tue May 15, 2018 9:07 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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Post #2 Posted: Wed May 09, 2018 11:18 pm 
Honinbo
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Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$B
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . O O O O O O . . , . . .
$$ | . O X X X X O . . . . . .
$$ | X X . . O X O . . . . . .
$$ | . . . X O O . . . . . . .
$$ +---------------------------[/go]
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$B
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . O O O O O O . . , . . .
$$ | . O X X X X O . . . . . .
$$ | X X . 1 O X O . . . . . .
$$ | . . 3 X O O 2 . . . . . .
$$ +---------------------------[/go]

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$B
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . X X , . . . . . , . . .
$$ | O O O X X . X . . . . . .
$$ | . X . O . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . O . . . . . . . . . . .
$$ +--------------------------[/go]
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$B
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . X X , . . . . . , . . .
$$ | O O O X X . X . . . . . .
$$ | 2 X . O . . . . . . . . .
$$ | 3 O 1 . . . . . . . . . .
$$ +--------------------------[/go]

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Post #3 Posted: Wed May 09, 2018 11:46 pm 
Honinbo
User avatar

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Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$B
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . O . . O . . . . . . .
$$ | . O O X X O . . . , . . .
$$ | . O X O O X . . . . . . .
$$ | X X X . . O O . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . .
$$ +---------------------------[/go]
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$B :w4: @ :bc:
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . O . . O . . . . . . .
$$ | . O O X X O . . . , . . .
$$ | . O X O O B 2 . . . . . .
$$ | X X X 3 1 O O . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . 5 . . . . . . . .
$$ +---------------------------[/go]

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$B
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . O . . . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . X O O O . . . . , . . .
$$ | . . X X O . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . X O . O . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . .
$$ +---------------------------[/go]
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$B
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . O . . . . . . . . . . .
$$ | 2 X O O O . . . . , . . .
$$ | 3 4 X X O . . . . . . . .
$$ | . 1 . X O . O . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . .
$$ +---------------------------[/go]

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Post #4 Posted: Thu May 10, 2018 12:20 am 
Honinbo
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( Thought :b1: E1 empty triangle didn't work. :blackeye: )

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Post #5 Posted: Thu May 10, 2018 12:26 am 
Honinbo
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Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$B
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . X X , . . . . . , . . .
$$ | . O O X X X . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . O O X . X . . . . .
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . .
$$ +--------------------------[/go]
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$B
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . X X , . . . . . , . . .
$$ | 3 O O X X X . . . . . . .
$$ | 1 2 . O O X . X . . . . .
$$ | 4 5 O . . . . . . . . . .
$$ +--------------------------[/go]

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 Post subject: Re: Go Basic Training Series- Life and Death book review
Post #6 Posted: Thu May 10, 2018 2:53 am 
Lives with ko

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Ed;

Right on all counts, except your solution for problem one from book three.
I think I found your mistake;

Ko?
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$B
$$ +---------------------------+
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . , . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O . O . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O X O . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | 1 X O X O O . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X . X X O . O . . . . . |
$$ | 5 4 . 3 2 . . . . . . . . |
$$ +---------------------------+[/go]

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Post #7 Posted: Thu May 10, 2018 4:09 am 
Honinbo
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Hi zac, thanks.

Curious if someone ( like Bill ) thinks #1 and #242 are roughly the same level of difficulty... :)
Worked on :b1: E1 empty triangle first, but confused myself. :blackeye:

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 Post subject: Re: Go Basic Training Series- Life and Death book review
Post #8 Posted: Thu May 10, 2018 4:14 am 
Lives in gote

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KGS: Tryss
zac, your :w4: is wrong, you can kill unconditionaly :

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$B a and b are now miai for the kill
$$ +---------------------------+
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . , . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O . O . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O X O . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | 1 X O X O O . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X a X X O . O . . . . . |
$$ | 4 b . 3 2 . . . . . . . . |
$$ +---------------------------+[/go]


The correct play for black is
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$B a and b are miai
$$ +---------------------------+
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . , . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O . O . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O X O . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . X O X O O . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X . X X O . O . . . . . |
$$ | . a b . 1 . . . . . . . . |
$$ +---------------------------+[/go]



Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$B var a
$$ +---------------------------+
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . , . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O . O . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O X O . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . X O X O O . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X . X X O . O . . . . . |
$$ | . 2 3 . 1 . . . . . . . . |
$$ +---------------------------+[/go]


Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$B var b
$$ +---------------------------+
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . , . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O . O . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O X O . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . X O X O O . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X 4 X X O . O . . . . . |
$$ | . 3 2 5 1 . . . . . . . . |
$$ +---------------------------+[/go]


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 Post subject: Re: Go Basic Training Series- Life and Death book review
Post #9 Posted: Thu May 10, 2018 5:26 am 
Lives with ko

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Ed, your second attempt is correct, as is Tryss.
Ed what is your impression of the difficulty of the two problems?
I see that Tryss is 2k- was this an easy problem for you (on sight or under a minute), or did it take some time?

Looking at some other books by the same author, some of the L&D problem from the 5k book here are used in another book for 10-5k, which seems a bit more reasonable, and having the problems grouped by type seems a good way to discover any particular weaknesses if you are on the upper end of the range, or to give a 10k a good understanding of different life and death problems.

This other book series is very similar- essentially the same layout, similar division of problems, examples before each section, but a larger number of problems (768 for the 10-5k book). Has books from beginner to 10k, 10-5, 5-1, 1k-1D, 1-3D. These other books seem to be for children, and all contain many more problems than the books I reviewed here. Also has other books for topics not covered here- joseki, opening and endgame.

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Post #10 Posted: Thu May 10, 2018 6:13 am 
Honinbo
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Hi zac,
The assignment of a difficulty level to shapes is very non-trivial to me.
So I was wondering if Bill or others may have any input.
My sense is that the factors include ( but are not limited to ):
- total tree size ( total number of nodes )
- number of branches
- depth of each branch
- depth of the longest branch (?)
- time to solve exhaustively ( e.g. "on sight" )

How to squeeze all these ( and possibly other ) objective and measurable numbers into one difficulty level ( albeit "approximately" ) ?

( Example: a ladder can have a very long branch, and "simple" in terms of difficulty. Re: LeelaZero-class ladder issues. )

Re: piano levels
Elo ratings

( Some may say #242 should be on sight. )

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 Post subject: Re: Go Basic Training Series- Life and Death book review
Post #11 Posted: Thu May 10, 2018 6:51 am 
Lives in gote

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KGS: Tryss
I'd say it was a medium problem for me.

The #242 was easier for me, but that's probably because it's a familiar shape

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Post #12 Posted: Thu May 10, 2018 7:49 am 
Honinbo

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EdLee wrote:
Hi zac,
The assignment of a difficulty level to shapes is very non-trivial to me.
So I was wondering if Bill or others may have any input.


Baduk Barbie wrote:
Go is hard.
:lol:

_________________
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 Post subject: Re: Go Basic Training Series- Life and Death book review
Post #13 Posted: Fri May 11, 2018 7:12 am 
Gosei

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One aspect of the difficulty of the assignment of levels is that the levels themselves are not clearly defined. For example, one can reach a 1d level by having more advanced knowledge in other areas of the game while still be relatively weak in life-and-death. Back in the days before internet go playing one could easily find 1k or stronger people in go clubs who played mostly by intuition or feel but disliked the kind of reading needed to be strong at life-and-death.

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