Life In 19x19http://lifein19x19.com/ Reviews here, reviews elsewhere...http://lifein19x19.com/viewtopic.php?f=57&t=3195 Page 6 of 7

 Author: jts [ Thu Feb 17, 2011 2:38 pm ] Post subject: Re: Reviews here, reviews elsewhere... mohsart wrote:Helel: Am I understanding you correctly if I read your words as this?The teachings of mathematics is totally wrong:In 7th grade(?) the children are taught the formulas how to calculate the volume of a cylinder and other shapes, but it is about 3-4 years later they are taught why these formulas are correct.It should be the other way around! They should not be taught things they don't have the tools yet to verify that the equations are correct!Or with Go, teaching beginners that joseki moves are good to push them in the right direction of learning.It would be kind of badly used time for a beginner to experiment with 1-1, 1-2, and 2-2 openings for the first month of learning to play, to make a extreme example - anyone who actually plays Go knows this, but maybe not all can explain it so that the beginner fully understands it?/MatsThis is perhaps getting further and further away from the topic, but when I was in middle school, at least, we learned the reason for the cyclinder-volume formula in 7th grade, too; you find the volume of a three-dimensional prism by multiplying the area of the base by the height. But that's not true for, say, the area of the cone or a sphere. There I would bite the bullet and say that there's no sense in forcing kids to memorize the formula before they've learned calculus.I don't think this logic applies to Go, though. Go isn't proof-based. Lots of rationales and examples that would persuade me would seem silly to strong players. At the end of the day, I'm going to be accepting someone's opinions about Go on authority, and perhaps it's best that we be explicit about that.

 Author: mohsart [ Fri Feb 18, 2011 5:06 am ] Post subject: Re: Reviews here, reviews elsewhere... Correct, I used a bad example, sphere is better for sure, sorry about that.While this may not always be directly equivalent to Go, I do believe that it can be. Ie learning that a move is "good" without understanding why may be a quicker way to advance than to learn all the more or less subtle reasons behind the fact.The opposite, eg to learn Joseki without any understanding of the moves is as we all know bad, but I don't think it's a either/or situation in most cases."The position is low, so this side is not very interesting" or "this shape is strong" may be very hard to explain, but can be useful advice anyways./Mats

 Author: tapir [ Fri Feb 18, 2011 5:56 am ] Post subject: Re: Reviews here, reviews elsewhere... While we are at names, signatures and trustworthiness. (I for my part of course am affected by the name written under or above a written text, but I try in general to judge by style. You can usually tell people, who just present a polished surface with not much underneath, from those, who try to express genuine insights, even when they may struggle to express them.)Whatever, I took a look on the page http://gobooks.nemir.orgTransparency:There is literally no clue by whom this site is made, no names, no handles, despite many occurrences of "I intend", "I will" etc. in the explanatory pages. The domain is registered by "Nemir Nemiria" from Australia, a handle which may be telling to tech people, but I never heard it before in the online go world, although reverse whois indicates he/she holds other domains like goteacher.org / goteachers.org as well. The only tangible information on Nemir seems to be this page on SL: http://senseis.xmp.net/?Nemir.Reviews:The half dozen book reviews I looked at randomly are all taken from David Carlton's homepage in plain text, other reviews are sponsored by AGA. Both with permission. As no link to the original is given, it is, however, not clear to readers how many reviews on the page are genuinely sponsored by gobooks.nemir.org contributors and how much are aggregated from elsewhere.Design:Standardized and well ordered, book pages always include a cover scan, blurb, table of contents and publisher data, but reviews are far from assured, and if there is one. it is most often the one by David Carlton himself.Activity:The page seems to be rather inactive since 2008.

 Author: mohsart [ Fri Feb 18, 2011 11:27 am ] Post subject: Re: Reviews here, reviews elsewhere... Wow, funny Nemir/varios names ending with hippo...I'm pretty sure I know this guy, I'll ask./Mats

 Author: tapir [ Fri Feb 18, 2011 12:26 pm ] Post subject: Re: Reviews here, reviews elsewhere... mohsart wrote:Wow, funny Nemir/varios names ending with hippo...I'm pretty sure I know this guy, I'll ask./MatsIt is kind of sad how many individual initiatives go nowhere because of a lack of collaboration in the go scene. Gobooks really looks like the work of a single enthusiast with not much people joining in for the project to take off.Any other places where worthwile go book reviews linger? Nexik's blog has some, but I am usually not following the other blogs. Any takers?

 Author: rubin427 [ Sat Feb 19, 2011 11:56 am ] Post subject: Re: Reviews here, reviews elsewhere... (Begin Message)It’s true that the main topic of this thread is regarding where to store book reviews - but a bulk of this thread’s comments and actual discussion have been about signed contributions. How can we trust that a contribution has not been edited since it was signed? How do we know this particular signed contribution was not created by an impostor? Is there development work that could be done at a given website that could somehow improve the “signed contribution” functionality, perhaps by improving its trustworthiness? Well, I am very surprised that no one has brought up the topic of “digital signatures” (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Digital_signature). I’ll say a few words in this regard, just so that anyone who feels strongly about the issue of signatures or signed content knows this is one workable solution. They can do their own research into the topic if they so desire. A hopefully brief crash course: What is a digital signature? Digital signatures has it’s roots in cryptography and encryption, so lets begin there. Everyone has at least some vague concept of how encryption works. There’s some data that’s been scrambled and we can’t read it without “the key”. In one particular model, there are actually two keys. One key is my “private key”, that I don’t share with anyone. Another key is my “public key” - that I share at least one other person. Any message encrypted with my private key can be decrypted by someone with my public key. The most obvious application of encryption is keeping secrets. Only someone with my public key can read the message. But, there are some neat side effects that fall out of the math. For example, if my public key decrypts a message, you can be sure that only my private key could have encrypted it. In other words, if you can trust that I haven’t shared my private key with anyone else, you can be sure the message came from me - and me alone. Also, you can be sure that if my public key decrypts the message, the message has not been altered since I encrypted it. So, what’s a digital signature? It’s a method of using encryption to achieve those last two side effects (guaranteed authorship, guaranteed message integrity) without any messy scrambling of the message itself. The message itself remains readable to anyone and everyone. But anyone with my public key can also go one step further and verify that the message was digitally signed using my private key. Now if I choose to share my public key with everyone (say, for example, by posting it on my personal website), now anyone with a little bit of free time can verify my digital signature to ensure a message, or book review, or any data both came from me, and has not been altered. The fun part is, digital signatures can work anywhere that I am allowed to write a message. We don’t have to do extra work to support them. I’ll be signing this message, and providing a public key just as a small demonstration.The commands I used to generate this can be found on the following website: http://www.madboa.com/geek/openssl/#key-rsa(End Message)-----BEGIN PUBLIC KEY-----MIGfMA0GCSqGSIb3DQEBAQUAA4GNADCBiQKBgQDhIJl1olKMD8q9mKhe3UJDgARRmkP8YJs4R8HKVMvC2VJ49SjdDs4t/qyp0FUHmqfebxWspgh31ufblO8OaB2c0s6a4h2i4/g/DYFLwubUSX9ahYHnQdQcmI5Wru/TBvEcLcW7TgOdgHddZVDtdN8wkX7f1x9FMKpPz5Loedg3uwIDAQAB-----END PUBLIC KEY-------- BEGIN SHA1 digital signature (as hexdump)---1b 31 da 80 ca 22 03 40 94 8a 65 1e ba 1d aa 30df 56 77 72 8c 32 67 a3 47 53 27 62 54 7a 8b 975f cd f8 88 a6 ae 0b 24 9c b8 d5 99 b1 ea 0f 5985 6a 66 6e ac f2 a0 59 2c 0e c8 33 c8 c2 17 e576 e0 bc e0 cc 98 ab 3f 5c f6 5e 8b 99 dc ba 3e41 6d 9a 0e bd 6f f5 ff f3 f0 57 d2 68 cb e3 041b 5b e5 b9 06 6c 03 1c e3 4e a1 8c 70 be b3 0cc1 d4 54 a9 42 96 74 86 b4 42 de e3 ae 84 04 9c--- END SHA1 digital signature ---A couple last things, lets assume ascii encoding for this post. Also the public key given here is not necessarily my authoritative public key, just one I generated for use in this post. Finally, I am not an expert on this subject, but hopefully this rough outline of the topic is still accurate enough to be of some use or interest.

 Author: daal [ Sat Feb 19, 2011 1:09 pm ] Post subject: Re: Reviews here, reviews elsewhere... rubin427 wrote: A hopefully brief crash course: Very interesting, thanks. Can you explain the steps I need to take to verify that you are the author?

 Author: jdl [ Sun Feb 20, 2011 10:38 am ] Post subject: Re: Reviews here, reviews elsewhere... Requiring a hex editor to check a signed message seems wrong, both technically and in the sense that no one is ever going to do that. There are easier tools that get the job done. I'll explain briefly with GnuPG, which is roughly the free version of PGP. 1. Install GnuPG. I use OS X and homebrew for a package manager, but you can substitute the appropriate commands for your system.\$ brew install gnupg 2. You need the user's public key. This is a topic unto its own, but for the sake of this demo, here's my public key.\$ gpg --armor --export my_key_name-----BEGIN PGP PUBLIC KEY BLOCK-----Version: GnuPG v1.4.11 (Darwin)mQENBE1gO5MBCADsfoO+hRsmkEo7+e4QrX7IYLJ7+rcHx6/aMpkKLou0Tj8ynniEytBI/i7Vb75yTHwK9XEhzqzs+YpQ9pucDqDAXbJl4eT3Q04lriDEccr4qvHirQydLebI+70zPjN+wmCK4aR7pErN6jsGb9JgwVOG4ia8xUkU2lp+ZgUYMQGg2foOPIOxcSQDKLFiI6TuTlUD3PPD220+DfdYt18X/gTYgX2CpqVY9kI61ECax3ObSIe4aQ0tsUEfRA2UIBdKbXiW/XYESWN6uXD10PvEGXkfL2F9pDWyhd877panLJEEfT4G2tD6Qx2kSWr2AL3EUqyW2TejYAVvZpU1KaS5SjYrABEBAAG0KkphbWVzIEx1ZGxvdyAoSkRMKSA8amFtZXNsdWRsb3dAZ21haWwuY29tPokBOAQTAQIAIgUCTWA7kwIbAwYLCQgHAwIGFQgCCQoLBBYCAwECHgECF4AACgkQwQXJ+wNqtP44fwf/a/8ZKeilPL7mFUKo6flf5Z4tUY0JVEa6czGcPEZyBTd7sK7CB/Q4bnD+ZDhEOyh7jgOCQAdEFd/FgN8Msd5H3Ao4cPJaQFUntS2RI5rm4b3fV4VyZDhvYU9ODBjqedZcPRELnJ3HzPlVmDovlUe92gOu+2CdgbLVXK5c9EP0f0ld52vX5bjfZ2P+6b9+ml41WuZiKFf07abL74kM0gExl4j/oHsQmJVO8j2SpH5sCjdkHFApsnkNlbTZd2wPiHV9KIJhcsT0kwO4WUwvSVMeTDCuAEwpjZ3FGgzKc+ixVldfRu/CvwcJ0qXKWSoThxtNswu7ZEVdto0s+qEr6xk3vbkBDQRNYDuTAQgAujwNTTvAE5aqwW/E9zebJWnBs9BNo11uHd1HgvWOoErVlde6ZTi2Eeb8kbIAxBPSqCuSWR6Syszgt8SAdLHmMFMQSY4P3X4g0wGvn3vllwWG3bc43c1gug3DUWKkt2uy9lvBdjMHJkSn3mo5H505ievTgw8tks/8mYyEVgfdyBT2V5OW2Owjs/yGlQqgY/EUfYRrVvH/Sd3uGgWIKbKOohpt/1jFwdzAb9bz0atMFzRL0Xlmz7y1OG4EbTsSdOI+dq8vXiKDYh549O38zbsX+nJieRV7R6JW/B9xWNXDihc5vSO3sA9Bwazm7yEvM/UsijaEeR7D4/u57Uy/cfxElwARAQABiQEeBBgBAgAJBQJNYDuTAhsMAAoJEMEFyfsDarT+AyUH+Ibayk5kyhfzqfMGLh5A1O9LIbzOzuJN8WR4uLx4iytMacnyEy5fLv949sOO482X6iNLrVdGFZb6mo5mOTTju7IbCCbawnUqAyNUH5LVv01YgXh4+vwmGV+M/04LL79AHKZ+HY38DlLIEmSsBtD/uytm1+2o6wGYz+4Fk8OJjUtqqMCAGH6J8wER0O5UOdlXi2EKXCr2FUx2+sZQiQwxmZ1RjQgslWQmTuPzAJR/9Bc89xfbwQcIuIvqF8JieQgWPQJgRa/nTmKEfNaqqvGuHGf0lht8HDKj52VsszO37X8Y5G8fvbGW6lhEGrF2RmDb/7f2sn+smuxD1Scyl2oCZg===Z3FQ-----END PGP PUBLIC KEY BLOCK-----You save that to a file, like "bray.gpg" and then import the key to your local gpg.\$ gpg --import bray.gpg2. Copy my signed message into a file. Example: Save the following (including the BEGIN and END lines) as "msg.txt.asc".-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----Hash: SHA1Hai there.Bray really wrote this.-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----Version: GnuPG v1.4.11 (Darwin)iQEcBAEBAgAGBQJNYU9cAAoJEMEFyfsDarT+87EH/ih6IVlBCKZ5m+OYbM0mA31IxfqouEozLCBm5ikR83B91KawwCg1j8FbJcVSSS3nmClHu4GphKHErBxjHUMuHJjGjLNr8otG4cNnhQU8K/5R5J3F9ZyZQ2FQ5NntwI9bqUtpJLUMDR3qgryogFCmVZWcQRPHZpRFGLaupI1c+Vx6T0Z9KjDn35UsDvwrxvIKomq5LkoMmBs/MVOEembJY3Rx8medCsjeH91sADcTQ9F8MSIYscBl5kEs9PfA4W82l0PibCcn1BufHbjSOyasR4twqu8UMenTEVOGCHuK84GTLZyi5PlxEZnEDdrhva4nEA0Am00mkglGcyPWh4Wo5O8==ca8g-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----3. Verify.\$ gpg --verify msg.txt.asc gpg: Signature made Sun Feb 20 11:29:00 2011 CST using RSA key ID 036AB4FEgpg: Good signature from "James Ludlow (JDL) "

 Author: rubin427 [ Sun Feb 20, 2011 7:30 pm ] Post subject: Re: Reviews here, reviews elsewhere... jdl wrote:There are easier tools that get the job done. Useful, thank you.

 Author: daal [ Mon Feb 21, 2011 1:02 am ] Post subject: Re: Reviews here, reviews elsewhere... nemir wrote:...What can I do to make it better?In an ideal world, what do you want?And on a different tack... who do I contact here to obtain permission to republish reviews here? ...Cheers!NemirNemir, welcome to L19! Posting here and making yourself and your website visible in the go community is an excellent step that hopefully will lead to more input and perhaps even some collaboration. For a start, I have posted two reviews here (Winning Go and Catching Scent of Victory), and you are welcome to add them to your attractive site. As to republishing reviews that have appeared on L19, maybe you can contact the authors, or better yet, maybe they can contact you.

 Author: rubin427 [ Mon Feb 21, 2011 2:26 am ] Post subject: Re: Reviews here, reviews elsewhere... nemir, you could take out a "community advertisement" for your book review site at sensei's library. I believe it's free if you provide the graphic.http://senseis.xmp.net/?CommunityAdvertisementsOnSL http://senseis.xmp.net/?listads=1

 Author: tapir [ Mon Feb 21, 2011 3:01 am ] Post subject: Re: Reviews here, reviews elsewhere... nemir wrote:What is missing from http://gobooks.nemir.org to make it work better as a resource for the go community?* Add links to the original reviews, even when taken with permission this is helpful. This gives some perspective and also reveals which reviews are genuinely contributed on gobooks.nemir.org (that is merit to be linked to from elsewhere, gobooks is not the only aggregating site after all).* Write at least once "Nemir" in the introduction instead of only I.* Some indication for which books you have reviews for which you have not - given before you click your way through to the review section of the individual book.

 Author: topazg [ Mon Feb 21, 2011 3:38 am ] Post subject: Re: Reviews here, reviews elsewhere... nemir wrote:What is missing from http://gobooks.nemir.org to make it work better as a resource for the go community?I have used this site twice now to extend my Go book wishlist (i.e. I already feel this site offers a lot, it's great ). If I was to offer constructive feedback, it would be to:a) Have keywords of the sorts of topics each book looks at (including multiple keywords for books with overlap).b) Have an ability to sort by strength (aimed at), reviews, alphabet etc.Sometimes I'd really like to be able to say "give me a list of Sabaki books, ordered with the highest level at the top, with unknown level in their own little group" (at the bottom is fine, but divided is important to not imply they are aimed at beginners), and then browse through the returns. At the moment I'm having to go through every title in no clear order. That's fine, as I'm beginning to own a decent amount of books I can skip over, and there aren't that many Go books, but is strikes me as a tool that would make it even more useful to me