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Offline hailthorn011
 Post subject: Daily Tsumego #2 (14k-3k)
Post #1 Posted: Mon Aug 22, 2011 6:32 am 
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Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$c This is a label for the diagram.
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . X X . . . . . X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . X X X X . X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . Q Q X X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . O O O X X . . Q X X X O |
$$ | . . . , . . . O X X . X . Q Q Q X O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . X O O X X O X Q X O O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . O O . X Q X X O X |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X X . X . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Black to capture marked stones.

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Offline daniel_the_smith
 Post subject: Re: Daily Tsumego #2 (14k-3k)
Post #2 Posted: Mon Aug 22, 2011 8:00 am 
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At first I was like, hey, you don't have to find the liberty gaining move at K2 to solve it. Then I was like, ah, yes you do...

I think it's harder to find white's strongest resistance than it is to find the right move for black...

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Offline Chew Terr
 Post subject: Re: Daily Tsumego #2 (14k-3k)
Post #3 Posted: Mon Aug 22, 2011 8:55 am 
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daniel_the_smith wrote:
At first I was like, hey, you don't have to find the liberty gaining move at K2 to solve it. Then I was like, ah, yes you do...


This is the best I see for both sides.
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$c My attempt
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . X X . . . . . X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . X X X X . X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . Q Q X X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . O O O X X . . Q X X X O |
$$ | . . . , . . . O X X . X 4 Q Q Q X O 7 |
$$ | . . . . . . . X O O X X O X Q X O O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . 6 5 O O 1 X Q X X O X |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . 3 2 X X . X . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

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Offline hailthorn011
 Post subject: Re: Daily Tsumego #2 (14k-3k)
Post #4 Posted: Mon Aug 22, 2011 9:44 am 
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Chew Terr wrote:
daniel_the_smith wrote:
At first I was like, hey, you don't have to find the liberty gaining move at K2 to solve it. Then I was like, ah, yes you do...


This is the best I see for both sides.
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$c My attempt
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . X X . . . . . X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . X X X X . X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . Q Q X X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . O O O X X . . Q X X X O |
$$ | . . . , . . . O X X . X 4 Q Q Q X O 7 |
$$ | . . . . . . . X O O X X O X Q X O O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . 6 5 O O 1 X Q X X O X |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . 3 2 X X . X . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


I've looked at this, but I can't see how B captures those stones. It's a tough problem, obviously, but SmartGo seems to have a lot of awkward life and death problems. It says you can capture those stones, but if you play it out further than SmartGo allows, B clearly dies. But then again, this is a 3k problem so maybe it's just beyond me. But, I couldn't figure it out.


But, you solved it right according to SmartGo, by the way, so you've earned 6 Club Points!

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Offline emeraldemon
 Post subject: Re: Daily Tsumego #2 (14k-3k)
Post #5 Posted: Mon Aug 22, 2011 9:47 am 
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@Hailthorn:

Could you show where you're getting stuck? Chew's sequence looks right to me...
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Offline hailthorn011
 Post subject: Re: Daily Tsumego #2 (14k-3k)
Post #6 Posted: Mon Aug 22, 2011 9:52 am 
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emeraldemon wrote:
@Hailthorn:

Could you show where you're getting stuck? Chew's sequence looks right to me...


It was right. That's the answer SmartGo displays. But I don't understand how it captures. It seems like B dies in that situation. Keep in mind, I'm only a 9k, so I'm probably missing something. :scratch:

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Offline emeraldemon
 Post subject: Re: Daily Tsumego #2 (14k-3k)
Post #7 Posted: Mon Aug 22, 2011 9:55 am 
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KGS: greendemon
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OGS: emeraldemon
Why do you say "It seems like B dies"?

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$c Continuation
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . X X . . . . . X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . X X X X . X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . Q Q X X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . O O O X X . . Q X X X O |
$$ | . . . , . . . O X X . X O Q Q Q X O 1 |
$$ | . . . . . . . X O O X X O X Q X O O 3 |
$$ | . . . . . . . . O X O O X X Q X X O X |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . 2 . 4 X 5 X X . X . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
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Offline daniel_the_smith
 Post subject: Re: Daily Tsumego #2 (14k-3k)
Post #8 Posted: Mon Aug 22, 2011 9:59 am 
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Chew Terr wrote:
This is the best I see for both sides.
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$c My attempt
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . X X . . . . . X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . X X X X . X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . Q Q X X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . O O O X X . . Q X X X O |
$$ | . . . , . . . O X X . X 4 Q Q Q X O 7 |
$$ | . . . . . . . X O O X X O X Q X O O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . 6 5 O O 1 X Q X X O X |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . 3 2 X X . X . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Yeah, that's the sequence I had in mind. Although, 7 doesn't need to play a snapback. Not that it matters.

For hailthorn:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$c White can't play at 'a' (self-atari)
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . X X . . . . . X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . X X X X . X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . Q Q X X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . O O O X X . . Q X X X O |
$$ | . . . , . . . O X X . X 4 Q Q Q X O 7 |
$$ | . . . . . . . X O O X X O X Q X O O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . 6 5 O O 1 X Q X X O X |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . a 3 2 X X . X . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Therefore, black's stones will all live after he captures the four white stones on the right, and white's stones will not be able to get eyes, therefore they are just dead.

Does that help?

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Offline hailthorn011
 Post subject: Re: Daily Tsumego #2 (14k-3k)
Post #9 Posted: Mon Aug 22, 2011 10:05 am 
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Now I understand! Thanks. Sorry, I guess I wasn't seeing the whole board clearly, and was only focusing on that one little area. I hadn't even considered the right side. Thanks for clearing it up! :salute:

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Offline Oroth
 Post subject: Re: Daily Tsumego #2 (14k-3k)
Post #10 Posted: Mon Aug 22, 2011 3:07 pm 
Dies in gote

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Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$c Ko?
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . X X . . . . . X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . X X X X . X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . Q Q X X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . O O O X X . . Q X X X O |
$$ | . . . , . . . O X X . X 2 Q Q Q X O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . X O O X X O X Q X O O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . O O 1 X Q X X O X |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . 6 5 4 3 X X . X . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
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Offline Tryss
 Post subject: Re: Daily Tsumego #2 (14k-3k)
Post #11 Posted: Mon Aug 22, 2011 3:14 pm 
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@Oroth :
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$c Not ko
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . X X . . . . . X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . X X X X . X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . Q Q X X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . O O O X X . . Q X X X O |
$$ | . . . , . . . O X X . X O Q Q Q X O 7 |
$$ | . . . . . . . X O O X X O X Q X O O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . O O X X Q X X O X |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . O X . X X X . X . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
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Offline Redundant
 Post subject: Re: Daily Tsumego #2 (14k-3k)
Post #12 Posted: Mon Aug 22, 2011 3:24 pm 
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DGS: redundant
OGS: redundant
@Oroth

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$c This is a label for the diagram.
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . X X . . . . . X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . X X X X . X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . Q Q X X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . O O O X X . . Q X X X O |
$$ | . . . , . . . O X X . X 4 Q Q Q X O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . X O O X X O X Q X O O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . O O 1 X Q X X O X |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . 3 2 X X . X . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
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Offline Oroth
 Post subject: Re: Daily Tsumego #2 (14k-3k)
Post #13 Posted: Mon Aug 22, 2011 4:25 pm 
Dies in gote

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Thanks, missed that :oops:
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