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 Post subject: Re: Bitcoin
Post #21 Posted: Fri May 25, 2012 5:26 am 
Oza
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Kaya.gs wrote:
This has gone wildly off-topic, however interesting it is. If someone wants to discuss this further please make a thread in offtopic :).


Just to bring it back on topic, hyperpape's links and the discussion that followed (thanks for the economics for dummies lesson, jts) are enough to convince me that having to use bitcoin would eliminate my inclination to use any of Kaya.gs's non-free services.

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Post #22 Posted: Fri May 25, 2012 5:46 am 
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I think Spongebob's point is really the most insightful one about what Kaya should do. Implementing bitcoin would only make sense as an ideological decision to push an idea that you're interested in. Which is fine--I don't begrudge you that right. But there's little upside for Kaya users.

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Post #23 Posted: Fri May 25, 2012 7:17 am 
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SpongeBob wrote:
Because of the instability of Bitcoin, you would purely use it as a wallet for online purchases and only keep the amount of bitcoins that you will typically spend in a certain timeframe.

As I currently do not know any single other vendor that accepts bitcoin (they all accept PayPal, though) using bitcoin on kaya would be a two-step process for me and probably also for the vast majority of other users here: acquire bitcoin amount needed for kaya with PayPal and then spend it on kaya.

So in my opinion implementing bitcoin can only be motivated by a wish to actively help/push this payment system.

this is a more concise, less convoluted version of what I was trying to convey. in theory, bitcoin is a sound concept. in practice, it does not seem to be. so my vote is not to support it, or to support it only as an additional payment option and after other more important features are implemented

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Post #24 Posted: Fri May 25, 2012 10:09 am 
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Archivist wrote:
in theory, bitcoin is a sound concept. in practice, it does not seem to be.


Benjamin Franklin would disagree about the theoretical soundness of bitcoin, I think. He was instrumental in getting the currency of Pennsylvania off the ground, and warned that the Continental Congress needed to be able to tax in order to support the Continental Dollar.

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Post #25 Posted: Fri May 25, 2012 12:06 pm 
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I have opened a new thread for non-kaya related bitcoin discussions.

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Post #26 Posted: Fri May 25, 2012 5:17 pm 
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There's zero development effort involved in supporting Bitcoin payments. The thing involved is taking the time to convert the Bitcoins that you're paid to USD or Euros and get them into your bank account, which is a non-zero but fairly small amount of periodic effort. (Also, since the Bitcoin exchange rate isn't really stable, recalibrating your BTC prices occasionally.)

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Post #27 Posted: Sat May 26, 2012 6:59 am 
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Since its ultimately unfair to force users into a currency that could lose all of its value overnight (a very small amount of people hold the majority of bitcoins), the price of things on kaya in bitcoin should be 25% of the exchange rate.

I honestly haven't seen anything that legitimately uses bitcoin, it seems like a currency that is purely a speculation game for users.

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Post #28 Posted: Sat May 26, 2012 4:28 pm 
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badukJr wrote:
Since its ultimately unfair to force users into a currency that could lose all of its value overnight (a very small amount of people hold the majority of bitcoins), the price of things on kaya in bitcoin should be 25% of the exchange rate.


That doesn't make any sense. What "forcing?" Why would Kaya be willing to offer such a crazy discount?

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Post #29 Posted: Sun May 27, 2012 7:32 am 
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cata wrote:
badukJr wrote:
Since its ultimately unfair to force users into a currency that could lose all of its value overnight (a very small amount of people hold the majority of bitcoins), the price of things on kaya in bitcoin should be 25% of the exchange rate.


That doesn't make any sense. What "forcing?" Why would Kaya be willing to offer such a crazy discount?


Bitcoin can become worthless at any point, it has no backing. If I take the risk to change my money into something that can disappear, I should get a discount.
Also, the only other place to use them really is Silk Road on TOR, which sells illicit drugs. Since I don't buy that, I would only be changing into bitcoins to use Kaya. That sucks, honestly.

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Post #30 Posted: Sun May 27, 2012 7:40 am 
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badukJr wrote:
Bitcoin can become worthless at any point, it has no backing. If I take the risk to change my money into something that can disappear, I should get a discount.


The risk of collapse should theoretically be built into the exchange rate. By accepting bitcoins, kaya would be accepting the same risk of collapse, so should not give a discount.

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Post #31 Posted: Sun May 27, 2012 9:39 am 
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Bill Spight wrote:
badukJr wrote:
Bitcoin can become worthless at any point, it has no backing. If I take the risk to change my money into something that can disappear, I should get a discount.


The risk of collapse should theoretically be built into the exchange rate. By accepting bitcoins, kaya would be accepting the same risk of collapse, so should not give a discount.

Theoretically, the risk of collapse should have been priced into those tulip bulbs, too! ;-)

Anyway, there's no reason to think that any given vendor or customer would have the same risk aversion as a speculator.

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Post #32 Posted: Sun May 27, 2012 12:36 pm 
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Why is the discussion of risk even relevant when it will not be the only acceptable method of payment? Granted that it does not seem like a useful addition, it would be a choice for potential subscribers and should therefore be purely beneficial from the user prospective (though, I'd imagine it would be somewhat more annoying for the site).

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Post #33 Posted: Sun May 27, 2012 3:54 pm 
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badukJr wrote:
cata wrote:
badukJr wrote:
Since its ultimately unfair to force users into a currency that could lose all of its value overnight (a very small amount of people hold the majority of bitcoins), the price of things on kaya in bitcoin should be 25% of the exchange rate.


That doesn't make any sense. What "forcing?" Why would Kaya be willing to offer such a crazy discount?


Bitcoin can become worthless at any point, it has no backing. If I take the risk to change my money into something that can disappear, I should get a discount.
Also, the only other place to use them really is Silk Road on TOR, which sells illicit drugs. Since I don't buy that, I would only be changing into bitcoins to use Kaya. That sucks, honestly.


This still doesn't make sense. If you didn't already have Bitcoins, then why would you want to pay in BTC, anyway? And if you did (for pseudonymity purposes, maybe) and you didn't want to risk holding Bitcoins, why would you buy more than you were going to pay with?

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Post #34 Posted: Sun Jun 17, 2012 7:59 am 
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Hello. I am usagi, I was interested in Bitcoins when they came out, but Bitcoins are a lot of trouble to be involved with.

It may be the currency of the future, but you take big risks just by being involved -- prices fluctuate, and you can gain or lose hundreds of percent in a matter of weeks.

Do not invest what you cannot afford to lose. In fact I say take that one step further, and do not invest anything more than a few play dollars in Bitcoin, at least until it becomes much more widely accepted.


Last edited by usagi on Thu Nov 21, 2013 11:53 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Post #35 Posted: Sun Jun 17, 2012 8:03 am 
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Also FWIW there are dozens of online shops where you can spend bitcoins.

http://bitmit.net/en/ is just one example off the top of my head.

I sold 4 video cards worth over $400 on there, then turned around and bought a 100mw green laser pointer and a gold coin.

You can also buy art, food, etc. I think I saw a goban on there.

There are other places too. Try bitcointalk.org -- it's THE place to go to become involved with bitcoins.

tsukino.ca/bmf

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