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 Post subject: Re: Blog Announcement
Post #41 Posted: Thu Apr 11, 2013 5:19 pm 
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I found it enlightening that any new go server is in fact expected to be KGS + additional new features + new interfaces.

Its a good point to take note for any would be go server writer.

Kudos to wms for setting the standard.

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 Post subject: Re: Blog Announcement
Post #42 Posted: Thu Apr 11, 2013 5:57 pm 
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Two of my friends and I tried Kaya when we started playing (along with IGS, Tygem, DGS and KGS) and really liked the look of the interface (relative to KGS). We honestly made a serious effort to stick around...

As others have already pointed out though, we found a lot of the available features non-intuitive, some expected features missing and found development a bit sluggish, at least in areas we thought were a necessity for a go server. For me, as a beginning player, very good review tools, a decent user base as well as an intuitive, uncluttered UI was a criteria.

Later, I spoke to some of my friends at our university go club and some of them said they had a similar initial experience with Kaya, and ultimately went back to their ol' stomping grounds to never return, forsaking their Kaya beta accounts.

I still keep high expectations... and... if and when Kaya gives atleast some of the same tried n tested features as IGS/KGS (along with anything else that enhances it relative to these servers) would love to play games there once again.

Best wishes !

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 Post subject: Re: Blog Announcement
Post #43 Posted: Fri Apr 12, 2013 4:19 am 
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As a supporter, while I have great respect for the energy and the skills of Gabriel and DP, Kaya did not meet my expectations.

I was just trying to connect from my iPad to doublecheck and both with Mercury and with Safari browser, I could not be logged onto the server.

The issues have already been mentioned, but I hope it helps in the sense of constructive criticism if I give my view:

- ineffective use of UI space. There had been a slight improvement, but still not sufficient. I am already 'turned off' when I see that in the chat window the text does not start directly after the user name, but in another row. UI was actually the part were I put the most hopes into given the 'old' and inflexible looks of KGS. Currently, I like the KGS UI a lot more.

- not enough focus on robustness

Would these two be solved, I would give it another try ... before that I am glad to have proven and mature servers like KGS and Tygem.

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 Post subject: Screen Layout
Post #44 Posted: Fri Apr 12, 2013 5:30 am 
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Regarding usage of space during the game, it is quite simple: the board has to extend from the very bottom of the screen to the very top of the screen. Everything else, like clock, player names, chat, ... has to go to the right or to the left.

It cannot be difficult to get that right.

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 Post subject: Re: Blog Announcement
Post #45 Posted: Fri Apr 12, 2013 9:48 am 
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On a 1024 resolution wide screen, I expect to get a userlist, chat, and list of games. Ineffective use of screen real estate is a big issue and one that was never on the mind of the developers it seemed.

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 Post subject: Re: Blog Announcement
Post #46 Posted: Sun Apr 14, 2013 11:45 am 
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Morgoth Bauglir wrote:
Kudos to wms for setting the standard.


Kudos for a now 13-year-old standard.

Another thing that was widely used 13 years ago : Internet Explorer 5.

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 Post subject: Re: Blog Announcement
Post #47 Posted: Sun Apr 14, 2013 12:04 pm 
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Xa17u wrote:
Morgoth Bauglir wrote:
Kudos to wms for setting the standard.


Kudos for a now 13-year-old standard.

Another thing that was widely used 13 years ago : Internet Explorer 5.


Of course, IE10 is such a great improvement...

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 Post subject: Re: Blog Announcement
Post #48 Posted: Sun Apr 14, 2013 1:04 pm 
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Morgoth Bauglir wrote:
I found it enlightening that any new go server is in fact expected to be KGS + additional new features + new interfaces.


+ stone sound


This post by palapiku was liked by: Xa17u
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 Post subject: Re: Blog Announcement
Post #49 Posted: Mon Jun 10, 2013 2:32 pm 
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Well, I wrote in August 2011 in the original thread.

Quote:
Imho it is very difficult to establish a new go server nowadays. You will need the right player base much more urgently than the best interface, so I would invest more in translating services than programming. Even a server like OGS suffers from lack of players, 1k upwards the population is very small and this is a turn based server that can cope with a small population much better. I really wonder whether it is all the fancy features that draw people to e.g. WBaduk or the possibility to find an even opponent within seconds. To me it is clearly the second.


It went exactly as I thought it would (and I didn't put money into it for that reason), but I am not happy about it.

A go server needs players, to attract players you need to offer them some benefit over existing servers. It is much easier to gain a major advantage vs. commercial servers that are not free-to-play than vs. free-to-play server KGS which is despite complaints without major issues. Trying to gain an advantage over KGS while planning to make a commercial, but free-to-play server is hard, i.e. some of the very features that are supposed to constitute your advantage vs. KGS will be only available to paying customers. Competing on features vs. KGS meant much more development effort than would have been necessary otherwise (i.e. competing on price in Japan, Korea) as well. But raising capital from the western go community you probably had no chance but to cater to their wishes and that is hard with so many wishes and different opinions.

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 Post subject: Re: Blog Announcement
Post #50 Posted: Mon Jun 10, 2013 2:54 pm 
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At some point you have to realise that Go isn't about the board and stones.

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 Post subject: Re: Blog Announcement
Post #51 Posted: Tue Jun 11, 2013 3:20 am 
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It's sad because Kaya had a good user base from the start which is more than any new Go server can ask.
I remember the free beta accounts release days; people could register 900 accounts in a few hours!

So the "There are not enough games being played on Kaya" argument is maybe true now, but it wasn't for a long time.

Something went wrong on the way.

I used to play regularly in the ASR league on Kaya and it was SO COOL! That system was (is?) awesome with live update of the result page and people actually did reviews. There were lots of dan players which was the fastest way for me to improve. (at some points Kaya ranks were moderately stronger than KGS')

Of course there were a few bugs in review mode (they got fixed rather quickly in my opinion) and apparently a few features that are on KGS were missing on Kaya and it resulted in bad comments and bad reviews on Go forums.

Although I have no special requirements for a Go server beside being able to play without lag and getting a basic review afterwards (without all the whistles, colors and stuff), I was personally disappointed that the killer feature was correspondence games instead of the highly expected tournaments.

I guess it's like Bantari said, the customer is king and he got ignored. Expectations were too high.

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 Post subject: Re: Blog Announcement
Post #52 Posted: Tue Jun 11, 2013 9:59 am 
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I was a bit sceptical about the userbase size, because I know how people like to register multiple accounts :)

For instance, some players try to collect the alphabet a b c d e f g h i j k l m n o p ...
Others will take go terms sente gote tenuki
Other Sai Hikaru

I have no idea what the average number logged in was, I guess the server logs would. However, I would bet that somebody probably took about 100 accounts at one sitting with some automated script, and shafted people who were actually interested in seeing what the server was like.

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 Post subject: Re: Blog Announcement
Post #53 Posted: Tue Jul 23, 2013 1:57 pm 
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Okay no

There's a limit to how much bullshit I'm going to tolerate

Meaning : I would like someone (not going to give names) to fix the fact that nothing appears anymore since firefox 25

Image

Thank you and drive safe

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 Post subject: Re: Blog Announcement
Post #54 Posted: Wed Jul 24, 2013 2:14 am 
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Xa17u wrote:
Okay no

There's a limit to how much bullshit I'm going to tolerate

Meaning : I would like someone (not going to give names) to fix the fact that nothing appears anymore since firefox 25

Image

Thank you and drive safe

LOL Kaya is erasing itself now. Hey Xatu, you could join Nova (I bet you already have in a clandestine way.)

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 Post subject: Re: Blog Announcement
Post #55 Posted: Wed Jul 24, 2013 2:29 pm 
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dfunkt wrote:
(I bet you already have in a clandestine way.)


Jesus christ you wish

Nova is to kaya.gs what libertarianism is to objectivism

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 Post subject: Re: Blog Announcement
Post #56 Posted: Wed Jul 24, 2013 2:32 pm 
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Bruce Willis in a string vest award

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 Post subject: Re: Blog Announcement
Post #57 Posted: Wed Jul 24, 2013 9:34 pm 
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Xa17u wrote:
Nova is to kaya.gs what libertarianism is to objectivism

Deep, man.

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 Post subject: Re: Blog Announcement
Post #58 Posted: Thu Jul 25, 2013 6:12 am 
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-Cough,Cough-

kusto wrote:
enjoy your sinking ship captain :salute: because we all know it has a lot of holes and in reality is not going anywhere.


It's still not being updated and still not open sourced to the public. Go figure. :roll:

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 Post subject: Re: Blog Announcement
Post #59 Posted: Thu Jul 25, 2013 6:53 am 
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I’m not sure … perhaps it’s more what apples are to oranges, or, uhm, perhaps what relativity is to ice cream. Or, well, what iridescence is to fragrance. Ach, forget it, I didn’t even understand what you meant with your comparison ;-)

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 Post subject: Re: Blog Announcement
Post #60 Posted: Thu Jul 25, 2013 8:47 am 
Oza

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Yeah, I look at that, and think "I know what I might think of such a comparison, but I have no clue what the author means."

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