It is currently Thu Nov 23, 2017 4:56 pm

All times are UTC - 8 hours [ DST ]




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 57 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3  Next
Author Message
Offline
 Post subject: Re: The End of Kaya
Post #21 Posted: Thu Oct 17, 2013 6:10 am 
Lives with ko

Posts: 178
Liked others: 1
Was liked: 22
Rank: 2 dan
GD Posts: 10
KGS: usagi
Joaz Banbeck wrote:
Javaness2 wrote:
Wow $500? What was the message though?


"I have $500 that I don't need."

At least that was how I felt about my $35. That is how we all should have felt when donating money. I regarded it as about the same as dropping money on a roulette wheel, but far more entertaining to watch.
I think that I got my money's worth.

For my next long shot, I am going to watch a few Lakers games this year. :roll:
( But I'm not fool enough to bet $35 on them. )


No, the message is that the powers that be want a new system, and are willing to pay for it.

There is an absolutely huge amount of money waiting in the wings for someone to come along and do it right. By "It" I mean, the Western Go scene as a whole, of course, not just the servers. There was a lot of hope for Kaya. They raised a lot of money on nothing but a promise. Just a hint, something I heard blowing in the wind. There are a lot of changes coming, hopefully for the better, and hopefully sooner than later.


This post by usagi was liked by 2 people: Bonobo, SoDesuNe
Top
 Profile  
 
Offline
 Post subject: Re: The End of Kaya
Post #22 Posted: Thu Oct 17, 2013 6:32 am 
Beginner

Posts: 3
Liked others: 0
Was liked: 0
Rank: 1-3k
KGS: 2k
Well, Nova.gs is still alive and running, don't understand why people don't play there with their friends.

Top
 Profile  
 
Offline
 Post subject: Re: The End of Kaya
Post #23 Posted: Thu Oct 17, 2013 8:13 am 
Gosei
User avatar

Posts: 1609
Location: San Diego
Liked others: 620
Was liked: 482
Universal go server handle: Bantari
usagi wrote:
Joaz Banbeck wrote:
Javaness2 wrote:
Wow $500? What was the message though?


"I have $500 that I don't need."

At least that was how I felt about my $35. That is how we all should have felt when donating money. I regarded it as about the same as dropping money on a roulette wheel, but far more entertaining to watch.
I think that I got my money's worth.

For my next long shot, I am going to watch a few Lakers games this year. :roll:
( But I'm not fool enough to bet $35 on them. )


No, the message is that the powers that be want a new system, and are willing to pay for it.

There is an absolutely huge amount of money waiting in the wings for someone to come along and do it right. By "It" I mean, the Western Go scene as a whole, of course, not just the servers. There was a lot of hope for Kaya. They raised a lot of money on nothing but a promise. Just a hint, something I heard blowing in the wind. There are a lot of changes coming, hopefully for the better, and hopefully sooner than later.


I think it would help if you explained what you mean by 'right'.

And speaking of servers, we already have a lot. Other than a few selected individuals clamming up with talks of "freedom, liberty, and white picket fence" (but there will *always* be some of those, just like there have always been some) - I don't see what is wrong with what we have. Why do people think the multitude of IGS, KGS, Tygem, WBaduk, Nova, and a bunch of minors is insufficient to have a good game? A click-sound surely cannot be *that* important.

PS>
I was hoping the message would be: The community is always ready to support interesting and courageous projects.

_________________
- Bantari
______________________________________________
WARNING: This post might contain Opinions!!

Top
 Profile  
 
Offline
 Post subject: Re: The End of Kaya
Post #24 Posted: Thu Oct 17, 2013 8:42 am 
Oza

Posts: 2285
Location: Ireland
Liked others: 650
Was liked: 411
Universal go server handle: Boidhre
Bantari wrote:
PS>
I was hoping the message would be: The community is always ready to support interesting and courageous projects.


I read his post as "The community wants to support interesting and courageous projects."

Top
 Profile  
 
Offline
 Post subject: Re: The End of Kaya
Post #25 Posted: Thu Oct 17, 2013 8:50 am 
Gosei
User avatar

Posts: 1609
Location: San Diego
Liked others: 620
Was liked: 482
Universal go server handle: Bantari
Boidhre wrote:
Bantari wrote:
PS>
I was hoping the message would be: The community is always ready to support interesting and courageous projects.


I read his post as "The community wants to support interesting and courageous projects."


I read his posts as "The Powers-That-Be (who is that?) are not happy with what we have and want something else." There is a subtle yet profound difference. ;)

_________________
- Bantari
______________________________________________
WARNING: This post might contain Opinions!!

Top
 Profile  
 
Offline
 Post subject: Re: The End of Kaya
Post #26 Posted: Thu Oct 17, 2013 8:55 am 
Oza

Posts: 2285
Location: Ireland
Liked others: 650
Was liked: 411
Universal go server handle: Boidhre
Bantari wrote:
Boidhre wrote:
Bantari wrote:
PS>
I was hoping the message would be: The community is always ready to support interesting and courageous projects.


I read his post as "The community wants to support interesting and courageous projects."


I read his posts as "The Powers-That-Be (who is that?) are not happy with what we have and want something else." There is a subtle yet profound difference. ;)


*shrugs*

The people will always take something better, just so long as it doesn't change the parts they want to keep (see: lack of good review tools in Kaya at least up until I stopped playing there for reference)..

Top
 Profile  
 
Offline
 Post subject: Re: The End of Kaya
Post #27 Posted: Thu Oct 17, 2013 9:37 am 
Oza
User avatar

Posts: 2750
Location: Seattle, WA
Liked others: 249
Was liked: 544
KGS: oren
Tygem: oren740, orenl
IGS: oren
Wbaduk: oren
Exithere wrote:
Well, Nova.gs is still alive and running, don't understand why people don't play there with their friends.


I think mainly there are already a lot of good options out there. Nova is filling the void for people who want to play in a browser right now.

Top
 Profile  
 
Offline
 Post subject: Re: The End of Kaya
Post #28 Posted: Thu Oct 17, 2013 3:37 pm 
Beginner
User avatar

Posts: 15
Liked others: 0
Was liked: 11
Rank: KGS 5 kyu
KGS: oiseaux
Kaya handle: oiseaux
I have no problem giving Kaya cash as it wasn't a great deal of dollar and was excited at what a modern Go server could be, but I guess that was pretty naive. I believe the saying goes, "a fool and his money are soon parted". In hindsight it is clear there was a bit of an attitude problem and a total lack of focus and direction about the whole project.

Fortunately while we were all busy looking the other way, Nova happened and it's already a far better server than Kaya was. Let's hope it develops over the next couple of years. I'd go so far as to say we should drop this forum and erect a Nova one in its place.


This post by oiseaux was liked by: Bonobo
Top
 Profile  
 
Offline
 Post subject: Re: The End of Kaya
Post #29 Posted: Sun Oct 20, 2013 3:23 am 
Lives in gote
User avatar

Posts: 478
Location: Germany
Liked others: 189
Was liked: 87
Rank: Tygem 1D
GD Posts: 325
My hope is that someone with the knowledge and ressources will take over the kaya server and client and continues with the project ...

I think a great asset has been built and it would be a pity not to use it.

_________________
Stay out of my territory! (W. White, aka Heisenberg)

Top
 Profile  
 
Offline
 Post subject: Re: The End of Kaya
Post #30 Posted: Sun Oct 20, 2013 6:00 am 
Lives with ko

Posts: 289
Liked others: 7
Was liked: 42
Rank: 100
GD Posts: 100
Many people have offered but they've refused repeated requests to release the source. Maybe another $17000 will convince them?

Top
 Profile  
 
Offline
 Post subject: Re: The End of Kaya
Post #31 Posted: Tue Oct 22, 2013 7:14 am 
Dies in gote

Posts: 20
Location: Germany
Liked others: 0
Was liked: 4
Rank: KGS 5 kyu
KGS: Ryuukun
Tygem: JoeFutile
OGS: Ryuukun
Universal go server handle: Ryuukun
I guess the reason why it didn't go well is because people like to have a client. I hate having to open my browser and navigate to a website when I can just doubleclick on my kgs client. That seems like an unfair reason to not play on kaya, which honestly is twice as good as any other server but this small little thing just completely ruins it for me to the point of me sticking to KGS.


This post by Ryuukun was liked by: C. Blue
Top
 Profile  
 
Offline
 Post subject: Re: The End of Kaya
Post #32 Posted: Tue Oct 22, 2013 7:31 am 
Beginner

Posts: 9
Liked others: 0
Was liked: 2
Ryuukun wrote:
I guess the reason why it didn't go well is because people like to have a client. I hate having to open my browser and navigate to a website when I can just doubleclick on my kgs client. That seems like an unfair reason to not play on kaya, which honestly is twice as good as any other server but this small little thing just completely ruins it for me to the point of me sticking to KGS.


I'm not sure how you come to that conclusion. There has been a fair amount of discussion recently regarding Nova.gs, which is also a web-based client. WMS has also been working on a web version of KGS. It seems web clients are the future, not dedicated apps. In my opinion, I would rather have a single web client that I can use from my phone, tablet, and linux computer. Also one that is centrally managed and therefore doesn't require any new downloads for people when new features are added.

Top
 Profile  
 
Offline
 Post subject: Re: The End of Kaya
Post #33 Posted: Tue Oct 22, 2013 7:43 am 
Dies with sente
User avatar

Posts: 91
Location: Geneva, Switzerland
Liked others: 39
Was liked: 47
Rank: KGS 6k DGS 8k
KGS: Codexus
DGS: Codexus
The current trend is to try to put everything in the browser which I also find rather annoying (despite being a web developer). A native client is much more convenient, as it runs as a separate task and we have operating systems that are designed to isolate processes and allow us to quickly switch between tasks.

I appreciate that I can stay logged in for hours into KGS and restart my browser as needed during that time for example.


This post by Codexus was liked by: Toge
Top
 Profile  
 
Offline
 Post subject: Re: The End of Kaya
Post #34 Posted: Tue Oct 22, 2013 9:35 am 
Tengen

Posts: 4044
Location: North Carolina
Liked others: 411
Was liked: 662
Rank: AGA 3k
GD Posts: 65
OGS: Hyperpape 4k
I made the same sloppy comment earlier, and Bantari pointed it out to me, so you're in ok company, but it's important to distinguish between native apps and dedicated apps. You can create a dedicated app that is more or less just a stripped down browser for a single site. Many mobile apps do exactly that. That gets you the benefits of tab switching and process isolation, without the difficulty of writing a custom native app.

_________________
Occupy Babel!

Top
 Profile  
 
Offline
 Post subject: Re: The End of Kaya
Post #35 Posted: Tue Oct 22, 2013 9:42 am 
Gosei
User avatar

Posts: 1585
Location: Barcelona, Spain (GMT+1)
Liked others: 577
Was liked: 298
Rank: KGS 5k
KGS: RBerenguel
Tygem: rberenguel
Wbaduk: JohnKeats
Kaya handle: RBerenguel
Online playing schedule: KGS on Saturday I use to be online, but I can be if needed from 20-23 GMT+1
Actually there are tools that do this. I have tried two in the past, Prism by Mozilla Labs and a more proprietary version which I don't remember how it was named.

In the end, I have resorted to just using a different browser in case of work+play time.

Even though I don't completely like the all-in-the-web trend (I prefer native speed), the thing is, web-only is the best way to ensure all systems (Windows, Mac, Linux, derivatives, tablets) have the most current version of the software, at the same time. Native means you don't get iOS or Android updates as fast, or Windows if the developers work mostly in *nix. I have seen it happen in countless projects (Mac guy, wait, Windows guy, wait, Arch guy, compile and wait, etc).

_________________
Geek of all trades, master of none: the motto for my blog mostlymaths.net

Top
 Profile  
 
Offline
 Post subject: Re: The End of Kaya
Post #36 Posted: Tue Oct 22, 2013 10:16 am 
Dies in gote

Posts: 20
Location: Germany
Liked others: 0
Was liked: 4
Rank: KGS 5 kyu
KGS: Ryuukun
Tygem: JoeFutile
OGS: Ryuukun
Universal go server handle: Ryuukun
I think it's a shame that everything becomes more and more browser based. At least that's my reason to stick with KGS and Tygem. I hope nova will get a client some day, at least a android one.

Top
 Profile  
 
Offline
 Post subject: Re: The End of Kaya
Post #37 Posted: Tue Oct 22, 2013 2:16 pm 
Lives in sente
User avatar

Posts: 760
Liked others: 152
Was liked: 204
Rank: the k-word
Bantari wrote:
But no business plan and no solid development strategy.

From the original Kaya announcement thread:

About the business plan. We do have one, a well written one, with statistics, estimates, development schedule, pronostications, details of the team, techonologies, market, reference businesses, competitors, etc etc.
Its just not public. We ARE talking to investors. We have moved our business plan in angel rings and VC's, contests and gaming companies. That's actually how we found our will-be iPad publisher.
[...]
We have a few strategies in the planning regarding the Asian community, but there is no rush to them. The Bar to compare to Asian clients is higher than to compare to KGS. In the line of production, we believe we will provide more than KGS sooner that providing more than those servers.
That said we have a few ideas (impossible to reproduce by Asian Servers) that have the potential to attract professional players. We think that if we get them, the asian community will follow. This very OCtober i want to stay there for a couple of weeks to make some quick-dirty demos to show some high level pros and get some feedback, and use as research.


I'm going to be charitable and assume that all of that was true and they did have a business plan and it fell through. It's entirely plausible that even with best intentions and business experience there's no room for a Western-based commercial go server to compete with all the established Asian ones and attract pro players.

Top
 Profile  
 
Offline
 Post subject: Re: The End of Kaya
Post #38 Posted: Wed Oct 23, 2013 7:14 pm 
Gosei
User avatar

Posts: 1609
Location: San Diego
Liked others: 620
Was liked: 482
Universal go server handle: Bantari
palapiku wrote:
Bantari wrote:
But no business plan and no solid development strategy.

From the original Kaya announcement thread:

About the business plan. We do have one, a well written one, with statistics, estimates, development schedule, pronostications, details of the team, techonologies, market, reference businesses, competitors, etc etc.
Its just not public. We ARE talking to investors. We have moved our business plan in angel rings and VC's, contests and gaming companies. That's actually how we found our will-be iPad publisher.
[...]
We have a few strategies in the planning regarding the Asian community, but there is no rush to them. The Bar to compare to Asian clients is higher than to compare to KGS. In the line of production, we believe we will provide more than KGS sooner that providing more than those servers.
That said we have a few ideas (impossible to reproduce by Asian Servers) that have the potential to attract professional players. We think that if we get them, the asian community will follow. This very OCtober i want to stay there for a couple of weeks to make some quick-dirty demos to show some high level pros and get some feedback, and use as research.


I'm going to be charitable and assume that all of that was true and they did have a business plan and it fell through. It's entirely plausible that even with best intentions and business experience there's no room for a Western-based commercial go server to compete with all the established Asian ones and attract pro players.

Well, yeah... Its nice to be charitable.
However - since they refused multiple requests/questions to tell us/me what the business plan is, I have to assume that either there was none (regardless of what the website said) or it was such that it would not gather much support from the community. But be it as it may - I simply have not seen them implementing any 'business plan', unless it was all going to be 'behind the scenes'. Which is weird in a 'community driven' server like Kaya was supposed to be. Especially after they asked for donations. This is one of the thing I was unable to reconcile for myself - asking for donations and refusing to disclose any business plan, even in vague details.

And this still leaves the lack of solid development strategy.

_________________
- Bantari
______________________________________________
WARNING: This post might contain Opinions!!

Top
 Profile  
 
Offline
 Post subject: Re: The End of Kaya
Post #39 Posted: Thu Oct 24, 2013 6:29 pm 
Oza

Posts: 2285
Location: Ireland
Liked others: 650
Was liked: 411
Universal go server handle: Boidhre
Codexus wrote:
I appreciate that I can stay logged in for hours into KGS and restart my browser as needed during that time for example.


I prefer dedicated clients too but,

eh,

you can run more than one browser at once. Pro Tip. ;)

Top
 Profile  
 
Offline
 Post subject: Re: The End of Kaya
Post #40 Posted: Sun Oct 27, 2013 12:10 pm 
Lives with ko
User avatar

Posts: 205
Location: Toronto, Ontario (Canada)
Liked others: 68
Was liked: 119
Rank: AGA 1k
GD Posts: 1190
Universal go server handle: apetresc
Given that Kaya's officially dead now, what do you guys think about this sub-forum? Should I leave it up to discuss alternatives/the (hopefully) eventual open-sourcing of the code, or shut it down to clean up the front page a bit?

_________________
The road to wisdom? Well, it's plain, and simple to express: Err, and err, and err again; but less, and less, and less!
Image Image Image Image

Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 57 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3  Next

All times are UTC - 8 hours [ DST ]


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
Powered by phpBB © 2000, 2002, 2005, 2007 phpBB Group