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 Post subject: Uberdude vs. RoseDuke
Post #1 Posted: Tue Jan 13, 2015 6:45 am 
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I'm not sure he'll appreciate the additional pressure, but at 19h00 GMT today (I believe this is 9pm CET and noon EST) L19's Uberdude will be playing RoseDuke (Victor Chow) in the Pandanet European Championships. You can watch the game live on IGS in the European Team Championship room.

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Post #2 Posted: Tue Jan 13, 2015 8:30 am 
Judan
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Thanks, Quantum. :)

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 Post subject: Re: Uberdude vs. RoseDuke
Post #3 Posted: Tue Jan 13, 2015 3:08 pm 
Oza
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The dude! B + 0.5!



Attachments:
RoseDuke-Egmump-2015-01-13.sgf [2.17 KiB]
Downloaded 1237 times

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 Post subject: Re: Uberdude vs. RoseDuke
Post #4 Posted: Tue Jan 13, 2015 4:51 pm 
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daal wrote:
The dude! B + 0.5!

...

Attaboy! :tmbup:

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 Post subject: Re: South Africa's request to join the EGF
Post #5 Posted: Tue Jan 13, 2015 5:36 pm 
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Yeah, I had misscounted there and thought I had lost by half a point if I defended as needed so was considering not defending and losing by atari and death in a blaze of glory instead but fortunately came to my senses. And regretting that needing to defend there meant my move there earlier was zero points in gote which is even worse than one point in gote which is worse than the one point in sente I let him get up top (which was my first idea but I changed my mind in a panic).

Here's the game and my comments:



I had been looking forward to playing Victor Chow 7d since I heard South Africa was joining the PGETC as he's a very strong amateur known for his fighting style who has beaten several pros. My plan was to play a thick solid game and try to avoid severe attacks; fortunately I was black. He started with a 3-3 point and a tight one space extension when I approached, and then in a Kobayashi-esque opening jumped out rather than making a side group with the hanging connection (s7) so I peeped and attacked and he made shape in the centre whilst I got to develop on both sides. Just as I thought I could relax a bit and he wasn't going to fight he made a severe approach that scared my right side group, so I attached and crosscut to make strength and give up the corner territory. I was rather relieved when he obediently answered my s14 cut tesuji (learnt from a pro game) and I didn't have to prove it in a fight (s15 leads to q18 and t18 tesuji) which I could misread and screw up and although it was gote got a nice solid shape with the p12 net.

k6 continued my solid plan, helping defend the h3 weakness (unlike usual Kobayashi I can't dodge into lower left 3-3 so f3 is hard to sacrifice) and prepare an attack on the centre. He invaded anyway and lived (I carefully read I won semeai after the g5 cut by one liberty) but then he played a slow reverse sente move at l2 so got to approach his corner.

m8 was a pleasing attack on his centre group (following up from k6 power) and I was planning to continue at n10 (as he didn't take a liberty with bamboo answer) but had a changed of heart and played h17. He immediately reinforced the centre and I was downcast at missing such a key power point but in compensation got to attack at the top. Around move 119 I had counted and was surprised and pleased to see that I seemed to be quite a bit ahead even without the c7 invasion (which was a bit dangerous against a 7d with the e12 and g5 aji) so tried to solidify by hassling the middle group some more. j11 was a crucial mistake from white though (m11 better) and I cut off some centre stones. However p19 was probably a bad idea: I had missed s9 (7d tesuji finally arrived! in byo yomi by now I figured I couldn't answer at r9 as r10 was a huge ko) and he ended up living with points and taking mine: p19 at s12 would have made points and forced him to connect on dame at p19 and also lessen s9's severity.

After losing a bunch of points there I then lost a load more in the centre with e12 cut, he got b10 double sente, and then captured some more stones with a nice throw-in ko, the 7d endgame had arrived! He also found a nice sequence at o3, and then n8 was 0 points in gote due to my needing a defensive move inside later, whereas n15 was 2 points in gote. With that final mistake I thought I had managed to snatch defeat from the jaw of victory, but actually I had miscounted and had luckily hung on to a half point win!


This post by Uberdude was liked by 3 people: jeromie, mipli, tapir
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 Post subject: Re: Uberdude vs. RoseDuke
Post #6 Posted: Tue Jan 13, 2015 7:15 pm 
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Exciting when every single point you took matters.

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 Post subject: Re: Uberdude vs. RoseDuke
Post #7 Posted: Tue Jan 13, 2015 7:44 pm 
Judan

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Banzai! :salute: :D

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 Post subject: Re: Uberdude vs. RoseDuke
Post #8 Posted: Wed Jan 14, 2015 12:28 am 
Tengen
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I want to see the sfg with comments.

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 Post subject: Re: Uberdude vs. RoseDuke
Post #9 Posted: Wed Jan 14, 2015 2:32 am 
Oza
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Joaz Banbeck wrote:
I want to see the sfg with comments.


Well, excuuuuuse me! The sgf download from pandanet stripped the comments out. IGS is pretty no-frills (except succumbing to prettiness with their Gopanda2 interface), and it seems people rarely chat there. There were not a large number of kibbitzers, and I suspect they were mostly from here.

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 Post subject: Re: Uberdude vs. RoseDuke
Post #10 Posted: Wed Jan 14, 2015 3:19 am 
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I was kibitzing at the end, having just completed my game, and there seemed to be a fair number of comments.

I couldn't keep up, so presumably there were a decent number of viewers, but I don't know how many.

Anyway, congratulations to Andrew for hanging on...

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 Post subject: Re: Uberdude vs. RoseDuke
Post #11 Posted: Wed Jan 14, 2015 4:37 am 
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The file with kibitzing is available here: http://www.britgo.org/events/euroteams2014

Victor has also shared some comments on the game. I'll try and upload them later. Needless to say he was rather critical of some his own moves, but also praised quite a lot of Andrew's moves. He showed a few ways Andrew could have won more comfortably than by 0.5, but also pointed out the final critical error - the throw in at Q4 on the bottom right to catch the two stones looked like a tesuji, but in fact there was an even sharper move, worth a few extra points (enough to win the game). Can anyone find it?

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 Post subject: Re: Uberdude vs. RoseDuke
Post #12 Posted: Wed Jan 14, 2015 5:08 am 
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Uberdude has posted the SGF as well with a few of his own comments in another thread. Very interesting to read his view on the game.

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 Post subject: Re: South Africa's request to join the EGF
Post #13 Posted: Wed Jan 14, 2015 7:55 am 
Judan

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Uberdude wrote:
Yeah, I had misscounted there and thought I had lost by half a point if I defended as needed so was considering not defending and losing by atari and death in a blaze of glory instead but fortunately came to my senses. And regretting that needing to defend there meant my move there earlier was zero points in gote which is even worse than one point in gote which is worse than the one point in sente I let him get up top (which was my first idea but I changed my mind in a panic).

Here's the game and my comments:



{snip}

After losing a bunch of points there I then lost a load more in the centre with e12 cut, he got b10 double sente, and then captured some more stones with a nice throw-in ko, the 7d endgame had arrived! He also found a nice sequence at o3, and then n8 was 0 points in gote due to my needing a defensive move inside later, whereas n15 was 2 points in gote. With that final mistake I thought I had managed to snatch defeat from the jaw of victory, but actually I had miscounted and had luckily hung on to a half point win!


Yes, the n8 oversight was unfortunate. But n15 is not the right play in that area. o16 is. And it is worth only 1 3/4 points (deiri). The right play at that point is to play in the bottom left and in the top right corner with sente and then play o16, which is the last play. Then you win by 2.5. :)

Earlier both players missed the double sente at t15.

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 Post subject: Re: South Africa's request to join the EGF
Post #14 Posted: Wed Jan 14, 2015 8:02 am 
Judan

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I backed up the yose to move 251. Here is the sgf file with several variations, starting there. Some of the analysis was tricky, so I cannot guarantee perfection. ;)


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 Post subject: Re: Uberdude vs. RoseDuke
Post #15 Posted: Wed Jan 14, 2015 9:11 am 
Tengen

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Oh hi, I don't normally check this sub-forum, so no pressure from it ;-) Though I did check the observers occasionally and it was up to 80 or so by the end which is more than most PGETC games (or at least league C ones). I was tempted to play the o5 (in daal's sgf on this thread, what's up with IGS sgfs flipping upside down?) farmer's hat shape to amuse the observers, though as Bill points out on the other thread o4 is the best move there.

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 Post subject: Re: South Africa's request to join the EGF
Post #16 Posted: Wed Jan 14, 2015 9:28 am 
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Thanks for the analysis Bill, I'd missed both o16 and t15. Does t15 mean s12 should be t13? (using orientation of my sgf)

As for the earlier yose, there are rather bigger mistakes there!
- Probably r2 should be able to get c2 in sente first.
- m1 is not the 3 points reverse sente I thought it was due to that aji inside.
- was l7 a mistake? I could feel the bad shape playing it, but hadn't yet seen o3. Though just before o3 I did think p5 would probably be a nice solid move.
- f8 was almost a misclick as last move of byo yomi, but actually seems ok to defend centre and g5, though maybe e11 is better? If white goes in too far the c7 problem can reappear and I'm thick enough in the centre to not fear trades.
- d10 and all that associated pain, should be a better way, f6 probably wrong.
- is g9 at f10 ok? There's ataris inside but no they capture anything?
- p19 is maybe the end of middlegame not yose, but lost a lot of points with s9, should I play s9 myself?

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 Post subject: Re: South Africa's request to join the EGF
Post #17 Posted: Wed Jan 14, 2015 10:18 am 
Judan

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Uberdude wrote:
Thanks for the analysis Bill, I'd missed both o16 and t15.


Fortunately, your opponent played it as a 1 point reverse sente instead of a 1/3 point double sente. ;) (Which might be right, depending on the rest of the board.)

Quote:
Does t15 mean s12 should be t13? (using orientation of my sgf)


I wondered about that, but having the stone on s12 is safer. Anyway, the "double sente" is actually a Black sente. It just stayed on the board too long. It is a middle sized yose.

I'll take a look at your other questions when I get some time. :)

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 Post subject: Re: Uberdude vs. RoseDuke
Post #18 Posted: Wed Jan 14, 2015 1:19 pm 
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Nice win, Uberdude! :clap:

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 Post subject: Re: South Africa's request to join the EGF
Post #19 Posted: Wed Jan 14, 2015 9:12 pm 
Judan

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Uberdude wrote:

- Probably r2 should be able to get c2 in sente first.


You mean B c2 - W b2, B d3 - W b3 or c4 ? Probably, eh? :)

Quote:
- m1 is not the 3 points reverse sente I thought it was due to that aji inside.


After W214 B m1 is not the play. B n1 is now a Black sente, threatening to kill. :o What is with you guys, missing your double sente? ;)

For our readers, here is the threat to kill. :)

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bc W2 elsewhere (coordinate numbers reversed)
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . X O . 7 . 4 3 5 1 . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O O X O O O O 6 O O X . . . X O . |
$$ | . . O X X X X O X O O X . . . X X X O |
$$ | . . . O . . X O X X X . X . . , . O . |
$$ | . . O . . O . X O . . . X . . X X O . |
$$ | . . . . O X X X . X . O O O O O O O . |[/go]


Aside to our readers: The endgame is not (just) about counting and making the largest plays, it is about fighting strength. :)

Edit: I'll look at your other questions when I get the time. :)

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 Post subject: Re: Uberdude vs. RoseDuke
Post #20 Posted: Thu Jan 15, 2015 9:04 am 
Judan

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Another thought: Don't reply to the "double sente" at b-10. Play s-03 instead.

(And if you do reply, isn't b-12 better than b-11?)

Can you get away with d-08 before s-03? If White replies with d-09, play e-08?

Edit: Corrected typos. :)

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