European Go Championship

HermanHiddema · **#41**

DrStraw wrote:

Well, it still seems unfair to me. Why not take those 8 players and following the KO process but maintain the MMS, SOS and SODOS scores already earned?

Because the specific goal of the system is to avoid draws and decisions on SOS/SODOS, so that would break the system.

It seems unfair because it is somewhat unfair. Not terribly so, but it isn't perfect by any means.

jts · **#42**

HermanHiddema wrote:

Well, you can probably find a score of older threads about it, but here's a quick summary:
...

Thanks for such a succinct summary. I think I read many of those older threads, but I still didn't understand the point.

DrStraw · **#43**

jts wrote:

HermanHiddema wrote:

Well, you can probably find a score of older threads about it, but here's a quick summary:
...

Thanks for such a succinct summary. I think I read many of those older threads, but I still didn't understand the point.

I think his point is that the EGC is trying to make life fair when everyone knows it is not. :lol:

jts · **#44**

DrStraw wrote:

jts wrote:

HermanHiddema wrote:

Well, you can probably find a score of older threads about it, but here's a quick summary:
...

Thanks for such a succinct summary. I think I read many of those older threads, but I still didn't understand the point.

I think his point is that the EGC is trying to make life fair when everyone knows it is not. :lol:

Well, no tournament design is inherently bad or good. They all give out a big shiny medal at the end. We can only say that each tournament design is best-suited to the needs of some tournaments, and a bad fit for others. A tournament where the best players are generally not eligible to win is pretty much the worst-case for Swiss, is it not?

walpurgis · **#45**

Round 7 results: http://egc2013.go.art.pl/EGC2013_main.html

Here's the current top 16:

If I understood correctly from earlier in the thread, top 6 automatically qualify for championship rounds (eliminating spots 11-16 due to higher MMS), while the 2 remaining spots will be decided on Wednesday by the outcomes of Artem Kachanovskyi vs Alexandr Dinerchtein and Andrii Kravets vs Dusan Mitic.

HermanHiddema · **#46**

walpurgis wrote:

Round 7 results: http://egc2013.go.art.pl/EGC2013_main.html

If I understood correctly from earlier in the thread, top 6 automatically qualify for championship rounds (eliminating spots 11-16 due to higher MMS), while the 2 remaining spots will be decided on Wednesday by the outcomes of Artem Kachanovskyi vs Alexandr Dinerchtein and Andrii Kravets vs Dusan Mitic.

Correct.

(Note: if either of those matches had already happened, another pairing would have been made, but in all cases those four players would be the contenders for the two remaining spots).

graemep · **#47**

HermanHiddema wrote:

walpurgis wrote:

Round 7 results: http://egc2013.go.art.pl/EGC2013_main.html

If I understood correctly from earlier in the thread, top 6 automatically qualify for championship rounds (eliminating spots 11-16 due to higher MMS), while the 2 remaining spots will be decided on Wednesday by the outcomes of Artem Kachanovskyi vs Alexandr Dinerchtein and Andrii Kravets vs Dusan Mitic.

Correct.

(Note: if either of those matches had already happened, another pairing would have been made, but in all cases those four players would be the contenders for the two remaining spots).

Artem has a higher SOS than Alexander so won't he go through to the KO automatically? At least that is my reading of the EGF tournament rules.

HermanHiddema · **#48**

graemep wrote:

Artem has a higher SOS than Alexander so won't he go through to the KO automatically? At least that is my reading of the EGF tournament rules.

The relevant document is http://www.eurogofed.org/egf/ecrules.htm and the relevant section is:

Quote:

Qualification for the Knockout

After round 7 of the McMahon tournament and for the purpose of making a tentative pairing, those top Europeans having played all 7 rounds are ordered as follows:

McMahon Score,
SOS,
the rating during the supergroup formation stage,
lottery.

Accordingly the top 16 Europeans are numbered. Next they are compared pairwise using the Fold Comparison strategy: 1 - 16, 2 - 15, 3 - 14, 4 - 13, 5 - 12, 6 - 11, 7 - 10, 8 - 9. If two compared players have unequal McMahon Scores, the player with the greater McMahon Score qualifies for the knockout while the other player re-enters the McMahon tournament. If two compared players have an equal McMahon Score, each of them plays a relegation game.

The pairing of the relegation games is made under EGF supervision according to the following strategy as well as possible: Firstly avoid repeated pairings, secondly use or else approach Fold Pairing by number.

Each winner of a relegation game qualifies for the knockout while each loser re-enters the McMahon tournament to play its remaining rounds.

Any relegation games are played on the second Wednesday and have the same starting time and top players' thinking times as the McMahon tournament.

Emphasis added.

Only McMahon Score is mentioned for purpose of determining qualification.

walpurgis · **#49**

Artem and Dusan won today and take the last 2 slots in the top 8.

walpurgis · **#50**

Round 9 results: http://egc2013.go.art.pl/EGC2013_main.html

Now there's only the final round left in the tournament.

Fan Hui and Pavol Lisy will play for 1-2nd place.
Thomas Debarre and Mateusz Surma play for 3-4th place.
Antti Törmänen and Ilya Shikshin play for 5-6th place.
Artem Kachanovskyi and Dusan Mitic play for 7-8th place.

Is it common practice to keep the records in the same format as before the KO-tournament for top 8 also? The result sheet shows the current standings as:

DrStraw · **#51**

walpurgis wrote:

Round 9 results: http://egc2013.go.art.pl/EGC2013_main.html

Now there's only the final round left in the tournament.

Fan Hui and Pavol Lisy will play for 1-2nd place.
Thomas Debarre and Mateusz Surma play for 3-4th place.
Antti Törmänen and Ilya Shikshin play for 5-6th place.
Artem Kachanovskyi and Dusan Mitic play for 7-8th place.

Is it common practice to keep the records in the same format as before the KO-tournament for top 8 also? The result sheet shows the current standings as:

What a thoroughly messed up system!

walpurgis · **#52**

Do remember that those results at the tope are skewed because, e.g. Dinersctein couldn't play against anyone in the top 8 after his wins on 8th and 9th round, thus playing against (arguably) slightly weaker opponents. I'm mostly wondering why the top 8 doesn't have its own, separate result sheet (making Dinerschtein currently no. 1 of the main tournament outside of top 8). That would make more sense to me in terms of clarity.

HermanHiddema · **#53**

walpurgis wrote:

Is it common practice to keep the records in the same format as before the KO-tournament for top 8 also? The result sheet shows the current standings as:

Yes. There are basically two tournaments going on mixed here. The European Championship and the Open European Championship. The results list shows the standing in the Open.

As to the top 8 system, I don't know who came up with the idea of also playing for places 3-8, but that is a ridiculously terrible idea. KO should be about the winner only, using it to determine 8 places like this is pure madness.

walpurgis · **#54**

Final results:

European Championship

European Open Championship: http://egc2013.go.art.pl/EGC2013_main.html

Congratulations to all players!
As was anticipated, Fan Hui dominated the main tournament. As far as I know, he even won all his games quite comfortably. I'm a bit surprised that Ilya didn't do better, going 6/4 over 10 games.

From a spectator point of view it was easy enough to follow the games I wanted to see, but in the future I would hope to see the players' faces in the video feed (like EurogoTV usually does). Now it didn't add any value to have the stream open and also the quality was far from good. Today even the scribe couldn't keep up because it was impossible to see white stones because the video too bright. <- Yes, the games were scribed from the video feed. One of the scribes commented that the top players were in "a locked room" where they didn't have access. That feels like a weird decisin to me. Oh well.

Also, slightly off-topic, but what does "!" mean in the result sheet (e.g. Ondrej's game on round 8)?

Dokuganryu · **#55**

Fan was losing against Mateusz, but Mateusz misread in byo, lost 4 stones and resigned.

HermanHiddema · **#56**

walpurgis wrote:

Also, slightly off-topic, but what does "!" mean in the result sheet (e.g. Ondrej's game on round 8)?

Win by forfeit, i.e. his opponent didn't show up or broke some other rule, causing a win by some reason other than winning on the board or resignation.

European Go Championship

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