It is currently Thu Aug 22, 2019 12:42 pm

All times are UTC - 8 hours [ DST ]




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 5 posts ] 
Author Message
Offline
 Post subject: Game 6
Post #1 Posted: Sun Jul 27, 2014 2:11 am 
Lives in gote

Posts: 640
Liked others: 142
Was liked: 429
GD Posts: 9


Attachments:
GL-LS#6.sgf [1.16 KiB]
Downloaded 601 times

This post by logan was liked by 3 people: Aidoneus, emeraldemon, Joaz Banbeck
Top
 Profile  
 
Offline
 Post subject: Re: Game 6
Post #2 Posted: Sun Jul 27, 2014 10:11 am 
Gosei
User avatar

Posts: 1744
Liked others: 696
Was liked: 288
KGS: greendemon
Tygem: greendemon
DGS: smaragdaemon
OGS: emeraldemon
Ok, I just started going through the game, got to move 11 before I was confused :scratch:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm9 why block on this side?
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . 3 2 . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . O . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 1 O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


why does black block on the left here? It seems like it would be more useful for black to have thickness facing the shimari and black stone on the bottom.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm9 Is this possible?
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . 4 2 . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . O . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 3 . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 1 O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Top
 Profile  
 
Offline
 Post subject: Re: Game 6
Post #3 Posted: Sun Jul 27, 2014 12:44 pm 
Judan

Posts: 6011
Location: Cambridge, UK
Liked others: 342
Was liked: 3231
Rank: UK 4 dan
KGS: Uberdude 4d
OGS: Uberdude 7d
@emeraldemon:

It's very important to note that white didn't make the exchange of 10 for 11 before going into the corner. This pretty much forces black to block the right (or you get a bad result, that's why after the hane in the game black did the pole connection rather than extend and revert), but he is a lot thicker and 11 makes the aji at a/b a lot more serious. Also white's double approach was high rather than low, so with the 3-4 at top left maybe white is hoping to develop the top so block stops that.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm9
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . b . . a 6 4 . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . O . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 5 . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 3 1 O 7 . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 2 . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


emeraldemon wrote:
why does black block on the left here? It seems like it would be more useful for black to have thickness facing the shimari and black stone on the bottom.


But that's not really thickness, white can pull out at r13. That's the meaning of direct 3-3: if black insists on playing for the right side he has to accept a result that is clearly inferior to the old joseki above (that's viewed as a bit good for black now), so fighting spirit can compel black to block the left.

Edit: in the above comparison I forgot to say black takes gote in the old joseki but sente in yours so obviously black is not as thick. But if black does take gote to atari at r13 he still doesn't have that nobi to the centre. I have actually seen quite a few pro games (with varying counter pincers?) where black bulges on the right and then doesn't reinforce at r13 and white soon plays there and black lets it connect up to the corner and keeps on building his lower right moyo. For example this one (note that because white played the more distant and high counter pincer blocking the top is not so attractive, actually white pulls the stone out quite late there and already has a group in the lower right so maybe not the best example...):

http://gogameguru.com/commentary-sedol- ... ation-cup/


This post by Uberdude was liked by: Aidoneus
Top
 Profile  
 
Offline
 Post subject: Re: Game 6
Post #4 Posted: Tue Jul 29, 2014 10:44 pm 
Dies in gote

Posts: 63
Location: Paris
Liked others: 50
Was liked: 31
KGS: clemi
Complete explanation here :-)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HVy4XzARaa8#t=686


This post by clemi was liked by 3 people: Aidoneus, Shawn Ligocki, xed_over
Top
 Profile  
 
Offline
 Post subject: Re: Game 6
Post #5 Posted: Wed Jul 30, 2014 5:10 am 
Lives in gote

Posts: 602
Location: Indiana
Liked others: 114
Was liked: 174
clemi wrote:


Thank you for posting this link!

Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 5 posts ] 

All times are UTC - 8 hours [ DST ]


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
Powered by phpBB © 2000, 2002, 2005, 2007 phpBB Group