It is currently Sat Apr 27, 2024 7:45 pm

All times are UTC - 8 hours [ DST ]




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 64 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4  Next

What language would best coincide with Go studies?
Japanese 37%  37%  [ 16 ]
Korean 33%  33%  [ 14 ]
Chinese 30%  30%  [ 13 ]
Total votes : 43
Author Message
Offline
 Post subject: Re: What language ....
Post #41 Posted: Wed Aug 18, 2010 9:44 am 
Honinbo

Posts: 9545
Liked others: 1600
Was liked: 1711
KGS: Kirby
Tygem: 커비라고해
Magicwand wrote:
...

i am korean and know some chinese character to start with and studied for a while but i was still unsuccessful.


I think that it might not be necessary for a native Korean speaker to know Chinese characters to speak Korean well, but it can be helpful to a non-native speaker to guess the meaning of words.

For example, if you know a little about Chinese characters, and you know the hanja for the words 선생님 and 방학, you might be able to infer the meaning of 학생, even if you didn't study that particular vocabulary word, yet.

_________________
be immersed

Top
 Profile  
 
Offline
 Post subject: Re: What language ....
Post #42 Posted: Wed Aug 18, 2010 10:31 am 
Lives in gote

Posts: 338
Location: Las Vegas, NV
Liked others: 163
Was liked: 62
If you've chosen to study either Mandarin Chinese or Korean, then you might want to check out Radio Free Asia. You can listen online - or with your short wave radio.

RFA homepage (english)
RFA broadcast schedule

Top
 Profile  
 
Offline
 Post subject: Re: What language ....
Post #43 Posted: Wed Aug 18, 2010 7:04 pm 
Beginner

Posts: 9
Liked others: 0
Was liked: 8
Rank: 2 dan
Yes, you can see the pronounciation by the word itself is an advantage. From this point, Korea maybe more easy for European to master.
Chinese is a very different language, and much more difficult to master, I have to admit.
But,Go is much more difficult than fly chess too, why didn't you choose fly chess?

_________________
Recommended a new Go server——http://www.wuzheng.org


This post by tianzuo was liked by: Bartleby
Top
 Profile  
 
Offline
 Post subject: Re: What language ....
Post #44 Posted: Thu Aug 19, 2010 2:06 am 
Tengen
User avatar

Posts: 4844
Location: Mechanicsburg, PA
Liked others: 62
Was liked: 505
Rank: Wbaduk 7D
KGS: magicwand
Tygem: magicwand
Wbaduk: rlatkfkd
DGS: magicwand
OGS: magicwand
tianzuo wrote:
Yes, you can see the pronounciation by the word itself is an advantage. From this point, Korea maybe more easy for European to master.
Chinese is a very different language, and much more difficult to master, I have to admit.
But,Go is much more difficult than fly chess too, why didn't you choose fly chess?


because go is a game and learning new language is not.

_________________
"The more we think we know about
The greater the unknown"

Words by neil peart, music by geddy lee and alex lifeson


This post by Magicwand was liked by: hyperpape
Top
 Profile  
 
Offline
 Post subject: Re: What language ....
Post #45 Posted: Thu Aug 19, 2010 10:01 am 
Lives in sente
User avatar

Posts: 761
Liked others: 152
Was liked: 204
Rank: the k-word
What the hell is fly chess?

Top
 Profile  
 
Offline
 Post subject: Re: What language ....
Post #46 Posted: Thu Aug 19, 2010 10:05 am 
Gosei
User avatar

Posts: 2116
Location: Silicon Valley
Liked others: 152
Was liked: 330
Rank: 2d AGA
GD Posts: 1193
KGS: lavalamp
Tygem: imapenguin
IGS: lavalamp
OGS: daniel_the_smith
It's a sideshow at the flea circus, I guess...

_________________
That which can be destroyed by the truth should be.
--
My (sadly neglected, but not forgotten) project: http://dailyjoseki.com

Top
 Profile  
 
Offline
 Post subject: Re: What language ....
Post #47 Posted: Thu Aug 19, 2010 11:48 pm 
Beginner

Posts: 9
Liked others: 0
Was liked: 8
Rank: 2 dan
Chinese maybe hard to learn(actually I don't think so, it's a pithy and beautiful language), but when you master it, it'll benefit you lot.
One-quarter of people in this earth using it everyday.
It has been used for 3 thousands years. A common middle school student can read the original books written thousands years ago easily, can you believe it?

_________________
Recommended a new Go server——http://www.wuzheng.org

Top
 Profile  
 
Offline
 Post subject: Re: What language ....
Post #48 Posted: Fri Aug 20, 2010 10:13 am 
Gosei

Posts: 1627
Liked others: 543
Was liked: 450
Rank: senior player
GD Posts: 1000
Regarding Chinese, don't the simplified characters interfere with using knowledge of Chinese characters to help with Korean or Japanese?

Top
 Profile  
 
Offline
 Post subject: Re: What language ....
Post #49 Posted: Fri Aug 20, 2010 10:17 am 
Honinbo

Posts: 9545
Liked others: 1600
Was liked: 1711
KGS: Kirby
Tygem: 커비라고해
gowan wrote:
Regarding Chinese, don't the simplified characters interfere with using knowledge of Chinese characters to help with Korean or Japanese?


A friend of mine from China told me that he could read a Japanese newspaper and get the basic meaning of it - without being able to pronounce the words, of course - without having studied Japanese at all.

I suspect he was exaggerating, but there's probably still some truth to what he said.

_________________
be immersed

Top
 Profile  
 
Offline
 Post subject: Re: What language ....
Post #50 Posted: Fri Aug 20, 2010 12:59 pm 
Tengen
User avatar

Posts: 4844
Location: Mechanicsburg, PA
Liked others: 62
Was liked: 505
Rank: Wbaduk 7D
KGS: magicwand
Tygem: magicwand
Wbaduk: rlatkfkd
DGS: magicwand
OGS: magicwand
Kirby wrote:
gowan wrote:
Regarding Chinese, don't the simplified characters interfere with using knowledge of Chinese characters to help with Korean or Japanese?


A friend of mine from China told me that he could read a Japanese newspaper and get the basic meaning of it - without being able to pronounce the words, of course - without having studied Japanese at all.

I suspect he was exaggerating, but there's probably still some truth to what he said.


i dont think it is exaggerated. many koreans who studied and read chinese character also can read chinese news paper and understand 95% or more. although we use different character to represent samething their basic meaning will let us understand the meaning behind the sentence.

_________________
"The more we think we know about
The greater the unknown"

Words by neil peart, music by geddy lee and alex lifeson

Top
 Profile  
 
Offline
 Post subject: Re: What language ....
Post #51 Posted: Mon Aug 23, 2010 11:21 am 
Lives in sente
User avatar

Posts: 761
Liked others: 152
Was liked: 204
Rank: the k-word
tianzuo wrote:
Chinese maybe hard to learn(actually I don't think so, it's a pithy and beautiful language), but when you master it, it'll benefit you lot.
One-quarter of people in this earth using it everyday.
It has been used for 3 thousands years. A common middle school student can read the original books written thousands years ago easily, can you believe it?

From what I understand Classical Chinese is completely different from modern Mandarin and almost impossible for even an untrained native speaker to understand.

Source: Why Chinese Is So Damn Hard:

Quote:

Whereas modern Mandarin is merely perversely hard, classical Chinese is deliberately impossible. Here's a secret that sinologists won't tell you: A passage in classical Chinese can be understood only if you already know what the passage says in the first place. This is because classical Chinese really consists of several centuries of esoteric anecdotes and in-jokes written in a kind of terse, miserly code for dissemination among a small, elite group of intellectually-inbred bookworms who already knew the whole literature backwards and forwards, anyway.


This post by palapiku was liked by: Bartleby
Top
 Profile  
 
Offline
 Post subject: Re: What language ....
Post #52 Posted: Mon Aug 23, 2010 6:47 pm 
Dies with sente

Posts: 105
Location: Ventura
Liked others: 42
Was liked: 49
Rank: KGS 4 kyu
palapiku wrote:


Thanks, that's a great article. :D

Top
 Profile  
 
Offline
 Post subject: Re: What language ....
Post #53 Posted: Mon Aug 23, 2010 8:39 pm 
Lives in sente
User avatar

Posts: 761
Liked others: 152
Was liked: 204
Rank: the k-word
Bartleby wrote:
palapiku wrote:


Thanks, that's a great article. :D

I know, I re-read it once a year or so to remind myself why I'm not learning Chinese.

Top
 Profile  
 
Offline
 Post subject: Re: What language ....
Post #54 Posted: Sat Aug 28, 2010 12:31 am 
Lives with ko
User avatar

Posts: 140
Liked others: 2
Was liked: 4
Go is difficult than Chinese for me. Korean is easier than Japanese.

It is said that--
Korean is difficult to enter, easy to come out;
Japanese is easy to enter, difficult to come out;
Chinese is difficult to enter, and you never come out.
By enter, it means start of learning a language and by come out it means mastering a language.

_________________
求而不得
舍而不能


Top
 Profile  
 
Offline
 Post subject: Re: What language ....
Post #55 Posted: Sat Aug 28, 2010 9:18 am 
Honinbo

Posts: 9545
Liked others: 1600
Was liked: 1711
KGS: Kirby
Tygem: 커비라고해
Psychee wrote:
Go is difficult than Chinese for me. Korean is easier than Japanese.

It is said that--
Korean is difficult to enter, easy to come out;
Japanese is easy to enter, difficult to come out;
Chinese is difficult to enter, and you never come out.
By enter, it means start of learning a language and by come out it means mastering a language.


With that definition, I'd switch Japanese and Korean around. It's very easy to learn Hangeul so that you can read words phonetically in Korean - but you don't know the meaning of any words. In contrast, Japanese requires that you learn a lot of Kanji before you can read something phonetically - and in doing so, you'll learn the meanings of words as well. On the other hand, once you have learned a lot of Kanji for Japanese, it's pretty easy to understand a lot of people. But just knowing Hangeul won't get you very far in Korean. Japanese pronunciation is also easier to pick up on.

_________________
be immersed

Top
 Profile  
 
Offline
 Post subject: Re: What language ....
Post #56 Posted: Sat Aug 28, 2010 9:41 am 
Dies in gote

Posts: 43
Liked others: 2
Was liked: 4
Rank: 16k
MAybe korean is harder than japanese from a gramatical point of view? You can start learning japanese with hiragana. This way you can build sentences even if you don't master all the necessary kanji. You won't understand the newspapers, but it makes small talk accessible to the beginner.

Top
 Profile  
 
Offline
 Post subject: Re: What language ....
Post #57 Posted: Sat Aug 28, 2010 10:32 am 
Honinbo

Posts: 9545
Liked others: 1600
Was liked: 1711
KGS: Kirby
Tygem: 커비라고해
Maere wrote:
MAybe korean is harder than japanese from a gramatical point of view? You can start learning japanese with hiragana. This way you can build sentences even if you don't master all the necessary kanji. You won't understand the newspapers, but it makes small talk accessible to the beginner.


There are actually some surprising similarities for the *basic* Korean and Japanese grammar. I would say that they are much more closely related than one of them is to English.

What I find difficult in Korean comes down to two main points, probably:
1.) It is harder to pronounce than Japanese (in my opinion).
2.) Kanji (hanja) is hidden. I think this makes it harder for non-natives in reading. There is a steeper learning curve to learning Kanji, but it is certainly valuable once you learn it. And it makes it difficult to a non-native speaker when chinese characters are hidden in Korean (not in pronunciation, of course, but in extracting meaning).

_________________
be immersed

Top
 Profile  
 
Offline
 Post subject: Re: What language ....
Post #58 Posted: Sun Aug 29, 2010 5:15 am 
Dies in gote

Posts: 23
Liked others: 12
Was liked: 9
Thank you for all your interest and help guys. I have (for now) decided to go for Korean. I ordered a "self study course" and it should arrive sometime this week.
I chose Korean because the language itself interests me the most. I also happen to have a couple of Korean go books that have both the Korean and the English text, which should prove to come in handy to practice reading and go at the same time.

Top
 Profile  
 
Offline
 Post subject: Re: What language ....
Post #59 Posted: Sun Aug 29, 2010 9:42 am 
Dies in gote

Posts: 43
Liked others: 2
Was liked: 4
Rank: 16k
Kirby wrote:
2.) Kanji (hanja) is hidden. I think this makes it harder for non-natives in reading. There is a steeper learning curve to learning Kanji, but it is certainly valuable once you learn it. And it makes it difficult to a non-native speaker when chinese characters are hidden in Korean (not in pronunciation, of course, but in extracting meaning).


What do you mean, kanji is hidden? *curious*

Top
 Profile  
 
Offline
 Post subject: Re: What language ....
Post #60 Posted: Sun Aug 29, 2010 11:33 am 
Honinbo

Posts: 9545
Liked others: 1600
Was liked: 1711
KGS: Kirby
Tygem: 커비라고해
Maere wrote:
Kirby wrote:
2.) Kanji (hanja) is hidden. I think this makes it harder for non-natives in reading. There is a steeper learning curve to learning Kanji, but it is certainly valuable once you learn it. And it makes it difficult to a non-native speaker when chinese characters are hidden in Korean (not in pronunciation, of course, but in extracting meaning).


What do you mean, kanji is hidden? *curious*


There are some "pure Korean" words, but there is a significant portion of words that are based off of Kanji, just like Japanese is (in Korea, they call Kanji Hanja).

To give a simple example, you can think of the word for language, 言語. In Japanese, you can see two characters here: 言 and 語. If you know one of the characters, but not the other, you can have some idea that the word has something to do with talking or language, so you might be able to stab a guess at the meaning of the word. Also, if you've seen the same kanji in different contexts, for example 言う or 日本語, you might be able to draw some conclusions on the meanings of the characters, even if you haven't studied the exact word, 言語.

Now let's look at Korean. Korea actually has the same word, which is based off of the same characters: 언어. The 言 is pronounced as 언, and the 語 is pronounced as 어. However, by looking at the word, "언어", you do not know for sure that the Hanja that comprise the word are 言 and 語. That's because there could be different Chinese characters that have the same pronunciation. For example, 魚 in 魚油 is pronounced 어 as well (just like 語), but 魚油 (어유) means "fish oil", which is totally unrelated to 語.

Therefore, if you learn the word 어유 (fish oil), and then later hear the word, "언어", if you have to take a stab at guessing the word, you might end up with a fishy interpretation (yuk, yuk) of the meaning.

If they were to show the Hanja/Kanji in Korean, like they do in Japanese, when you see the word for fish oil, you'd see the symbols, "魚油". Then when you saw the word for language, you'd see "言語". It's totally clear that we're dealing with 4 different symbols. But with hangeul, if you see the word 어유 and then later see the word 언어, you can try to guess the meaning of the underlying symbols (eg. "is it 言魚??"), but it is not clear which symbols are actually behind the word.

In Japanese, they simply show the symbols, so there is no confusion when you're reading.

I think it's for this reason that, sometimes in Korean newspapers, you'll see an ambiguous word, and the chinese characters will be shown in parentheses behind it. This helps to clarify any ambiguity that may arise from guessing what the hidden hanja are.

_________________
be immersed

Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 64 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4  Next

All times are UTC - 8 hours [ DST ]


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Google [Bot] and 1 guest


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
Powered by phpBB © 2000, 2002, 2005, 2007 phpBB Group