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International Hangeul
http://lifein19x19.com/viewtopic.php?f=8&t=18956		 Page 1 of 1
Author:  Elom0 [ Sat Nov 05, 2022 8:10 am ]
Post subject:  International Hangeul
I'm sure most people are aware of the utility of Hangeul. On the other hand, Latin characters are not the best to use for an international phonetic alphabet, since the same latter has different sounds in Eastern European and Western European languages, and vowels do not follow consistent sound principles. If you're not using IPA, then for many languages there are multiple romanisations for most languages. The the IPA has to patch these problems and use the letters in a different way to how they're normally used. Adding letters to account for other languages. Because consonants are based on a logical construction it's easier adding let All that needs to be done is find a way to add diacritics to hangeul
SejongHangeul is a free gift to the world and we waste it. Well no more. It's time to produce an International Hangeul.
Author:  baduk [ Sat Nov 05, 2022 6:00 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: International Hangeul
is this an insider joke that I dont understand?
Author:  Elom0 [ Sat Nov 19, 2022 10:18 am ]
Post subject:  Re: International Hangeul
baduk wrote:
is this an insider joke that I dont understand?


I'm super super serious
Author:  Kirby [ Mon Nov 21, 2022 6:03 am ]
Post subject:  Re: International Hangeul
I agree that hangeul provides a less ambiguous way of expressing the pronunciation of various sounds when compared to English. It can also express a wide variety of sounds.

However, some pronunciations can still be challenging, even when considered from the basis of hangeul.

For example, distinguishing between the English "r" and "l" sounds can be a challenge, despite a way to approximately express those sounds with hangeul. Additionally, some words have subtle pronunciation differences. For example, "warm" and "worm" have slightly different sounds in English, and this subtlety is difficult to capture in hangeul.

In general, though, I like it when there is less ambiguity in pronunciation compared to English.
Author:  Elom0 [ Mon Nov 21, 2022 9:59 am ]
Post subject:  Re: International Hangeul
I guess as Elon Musk said if someone said they're Super Super serious, perhaps they're not. However just as he did in fact try to start up a confectionery company I do intend to find a way to add notations to letters like ㄹ which is the same sound in Japanese being that they're related languages. So add a symbol to it similar to a diatric that would show if it's an explicit r or l sound.

Also quite a few new letters would have to be created but it must follow the same logic that the King used.
Author:  Kirby [ Mon Nov 21, 2022 12:43 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: International Hangeul
Elom0 wrote:
ㄹ which is the same sound in Japanese being that they're related languages.


I suppose that even with hangeul, the precise pronunciation can depend on the surrounding characters. So if you have a given letter followed by another specific letter, there are sometimes rules regarding how it's pronounced. So it is still not as simple as having one letter for one sound.
Author:  kvasir [ Mon Nov 21, 2022 1:15 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: International Hangeul
Since there are experts here, how do you actually pronounce 'baduk'?

Maybe it is not amusing to Koreans (or maybe it is) but what I have heard most often is bad-duke and after that there is bad-duck. According to this site it is more like pa-do, with no "K".
Author:  Elom0 [ Mon Nov 21, 2022 3:30 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: International Hangeul
kvasir wrote:
Since there are experts here, how do you actually pronounce 'baduk'?

Maybe it is not amusing to Koreans (or maybe it is) but what I have heard most often is bad-duke and after that there is bad-duck. According to this site it is more like pa-do, with no "K".


Well the K sound in Korean is really ㅋ and is use to transliterate the K sound in Japanese names like 나카무라 수미러 and 이치리키 리어. ㄱ is usually a bit voiced sounding a bit closer to a G sound. If the voicing is gentle enough it might be barely audible, like H sometimes is in english

At least that's what I observed, someone who understands Korean could verify
Author:  Elom0 [ Mon Nov 21, 2022 3:35 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: International Hangeul
Kirby wrote:
Elom0 wrote:
ㄹ which is the same sound in Japanese being that they're related languages.


I suppose that even with hangeul, the precise pronunciation can depend on the surrounding characters. So if you have a given letter followed by another specific letter, there are sometimes rules regarding how it's pronounced. So it is still not as simple as having one letter for one sound.


Correct. I was thinking perhaps in those cases a Latin letter could be used in between
Author:  Kirby [ Mon Nov 21, 2022 8:23 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: International Hangeul
kvasir wrote:
Since there are experts here, how do you actually pronounce 'baduk'?

Maybe it is not amusing to Koreans (or maybe it is) but what I have heard most often is bad-duke and after that there is bad-duck. According to this site it is more like pa-do, with no "K".


I think pronouncing as "bah-dook" is fine. The batchim (k sound) has a soft pronunciation in the link you provided. Most of the time, the word will be in the middle of a sentence, so the pronunciation will flow naturally with the rest of the sentence.
Author:  Kirby [ Mon Nov 21, 2022 8:28 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: International Hangeul
Elom0 wrote:

Well the K sound in Korean is really ㅋ and is use to transliterate the K sound in Japanese names like 나카무라 수미러 and 이치리키 리어. ㄱ is usually a bit voiced sounding a bit closer to a G sound.


No, this is what I was referring to earlier. Depending on where the letter is, the pronunciation can vary. When it's placed at the beginning of a word, I agree that ㅋ is often closer to a K sound than it is to a G sound. But when it is used as a batchim, ㄱ can sound like a K.

Different combinations of letters following different batchims produce different sounds.

I think it's often helpful to imitate native speakers - eventually, you get the hang of it.

Here's a reference I just googled - looks reasonable:
http://organickorean.com/7-sounds-of-ko ... kattempt=1
Author:  Kirby [ Mon Nov 21, 2022 8:30 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: International Hangeul
Elom0 wrote:
Kirby wrote:
Elom0 wrote:
ㄹ which is the same sound in Japanese being that they're related languages.


I suppose that even with hangeul, the precise pronunciation can depend on the surrounding characters. So if you have a given letter followed by another specific letter, there are sometimes rules regarding how it's pronounced. So it is still not as simple as having one letter for one sound.


Correct. I was thinking perhaps in those cases a Latin letter could be used in between


Latin letters can also have multiple pronunciations.

I think IPA already does a decent job of covering a wide range of sounds: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Internati ... c_Alphabet
Author:  Elom0 [ Tue Nov 22, 2022 6:54 am ]
Post subject:  Re: International Hangeul
I mean using Latin letters only when their sound wouldn't be ambiguous, which is less likely when they aren't next to other Latin letters.

Like for the english word return it's internationally prescribed r이턴 instead of ㄹ이턴.

Some letters like J would never be used because they have different sounds depending on whether you're speaking European or South American Spanish, but this isn't an issue since there is ㅈ.
Author:  kvasir [ Tue Nov 22, 2022 7:51 am ]
Post subject:  Re: International Hangeul
Kirby wrote:
I think pronouncing as "bah-dook" is fine. The batchim (k sound) has a soft pronunciation in the link you provided. Most of the time, the word will be in the middle of a sentence, so the pronunciation will flow naturally with the rest of the sentence.


I see. In wiktionary the IPA is pa̠duk̚ which has lot of unfamiliar symbols but I think I (sort of) got it now, thanks to the explanation.
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