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 Post subject: how many female members?
Post #1 Posted: Wed Jun 02, 2010 3:25 pm 
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we should have gender in our profile.
i am curious how many female member in the forum.

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Post #2 Posted: Wed Jun 02, 2010 6:20 pm 
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I disagree. There is enough pressure on the few women go players already, and it's not like they're hiding, anyway. You can always start a poll for gender in this thread, if you want.

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 Post subject: Re: how many female members?
Post #3 Posted: Wed Jun 02, 2010 7:50 pm 
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Magicwand wrote:
we should have gender in our profile.
i am curious how many female member in the forum.


There is nothing stopping you from putting it in your profile.

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Post #4 Posted: Wed Jun 02, 2010 11:31 pm 
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DrStraw wrote:
There is nothing stopping you from putting it in your profile.


LOL!

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 Post subject: Re: how many female members?
Post #5 Posted: Thu Jun 03, 2010 1:26 am 
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Magicwand wrote:
we should have gender in our profile.
i am curious how many female member in the forum.


Why? Does it matter? On KGS sometimes, it's really weird if someone says they're a female, and tons of people start saying, "really? you're a girl?" as if they'd never met girls or women before.

There are a few here, but there's no need for them to have a gold star in their profile.

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Post #6 Posted: Thu Jun 03, 2010 1:30 am 
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Magicwand wrote:
i am curious how many female member in the forum.
0

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Post #7 Posted: Thu Jun 03, 2010 6:16 am 
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Araban wrote:
Magicwand wrote:
i am curious how many female member in the forum.
0


This is not funny on several levels.

First, it is close enough to true to be pretty sad, not funny

Second, it ignores real contributions from the few female members we do have - I feel like maybe I should not call them out, but we did have four pretty active female contributors on GoDiscussions and I think three of them have made the transition here.

Third...well, we will leave it at two.

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Post #8 Posted: Thu Jun 03, 2010 6:28 am 
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Post #9 Posted: Thu Jun 03, 2010 6:51 am 
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HKA wrote:
Araban wrote:
Magicwand wrote:
i am curious how many female member in the forum.
0


This is not funny on several levels.

...

Third...


That was the funny one.

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Post #10 Posted: Thu Jun 03, 2010 7:23 am 
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HKA wrote:
Araban wrote:
Magicwand wrote:
i am curious how many female member in the forum.
0


This is not funny on several levels.

First, it is close enough to true to be pretty sad, not funny

Second, it ignores real contributions from the few female members we do have - I feel like maybe I should not call them out, but we did have four pretty active female contributors on GoDiscussions and I think three of them have made the transition here.

Third...well, we will leave it at two.


As usual, HKA does feminism right. (Calling him a feminist may make him growl; it has in the past. Tough: Yes, you are. I trust - at risk of being political inappropriately - that everyone else on the forum is too.)

On the one hand, I'm sure that Magicwand is asking for the "right" reasons - I think it's important for us to know how few women there are among us, and to think about it, and to try to work out why it is and how we can change it. But on the other hand, sometimes the amount of attention it results in is hard to cope with, and unfortunately sometimes the nature of that attention is really, really counter-productive, so I have a lot of sympathy for those women players who prefer to not draw attention to their gender. (I first started using Simpkin as a nick for exactly that reason; I've "come out" as myself, since, but for a while, not making it clear I was female made life a lot easier.)

I keep a record of assorted facts about BGA tournaments, including the gender ratios at them. The proportion of women at tournaments, on average, has risen from around 10% a decade ago to 12%-14% now. I wish I knew why any of the data I collect is so, so that I could work out how to change things ...

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Post #11 Posted: Thu Jun 03, 2010 7:39 am 
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Amazing how typing the message out without seeing each others face makes these discussions awkward so easily, isn't it? Enough reason for me to just pretend that people are gender neutral on the interwebs - this kind of conversation only "works" in real life :)

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Post #12 Posted: Thu Jun 03, 2010 7:41 am 
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HKA wrote:
Araban wrote:
Magicwand wrote:
i am curious how many female member in the forum.
0


This is not funny on several levels.

First, it is close enough to true to be pretty sad, not funny

Second, it ignores real contributions from the few female members we do have - I feel like maybe I should not call them out, but we did have four pretty active female contributors on GoDiscussions and I think three of them have made the transition here.

Third...well, we will leave it at two.

Hehe, it seems this is twice now my sense of humor missed the mark :). However, I don't feel there is a need for me to clarify to anyone who read my last post that there is, in fact, more than 0 female members on this board.

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Post #13 Posted: Thu Jun 03, 2010 8:49 am 
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simpkin wrote:
... I think it's important for us to know how few women there are among us, and to think about it, and to try to work out why it is and how we can change it...


Why should we have a goal of categorizing people? There are two categories of people that we should care about: those who play go and those who do not.

Otherwise, if we continue down this path, what's next?

"I think it's important for us to know how few Afro-americans there are among us, and to think about it, and to try to work out why it is and how we can change it."

"I think it's important for us to know how few Finns there are among us, and to think about it, and to try to work out why it is and how we can change it."

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Post #14 Posted: Thu Jun 03, 2010 8:51 am 
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I propose that the ratio be made more equitable by having every female member create 50 different accounts.

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Post #15 Posted: Thu Jun 03, 2010 9:03 am 
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I think what she means is, if women feel unwelcome to play the game, maybe there is something we and others are doing that makes them feel unwelcome. Certainly, we should make everyone want to play go. But in response to what you said, Joaz, I think we should make sure everyone feels equally welcome.

And of course the (almost absurd) extension of your argument is "I think it's important for us to know how few Westerners there are playing go, and to think about it, and to try to work out why it is and how we can change it."

I hate the 'lolgurl' internet thing, and insofar as it creates a hostile environment for female go players, think it affects our game's community adversely. I don't know how to help it however, as part of it is just twelve-year-old boys being stupid (Seemingly one of the great constants in life).

There's no reason for people to have to show their gender, because anonymity is a reasonable way to avoid that potential unpleasantness. I mean, we all know I'm a dinosaur, so I speak from a serious minority. However, I see nothing wrong in someone (particularly a woman) saying 'Man, statistically few women play the game. Is there a reason?'

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Post #16 Posted: Thu Jun 03, 2010 9:35 am 
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Joaz Banbeck wrote:
simpkin wrote:
... I think it's important for us to know how few women there are among us, and to think about it, and to try to work out why it is and how we can change it...


Why should we have a goal of categorizing people? There are two categories of people that we should care about those who play go and those who do not.

Otherwise, if we continue down this path, what's next?

"I think it's important for us to know how few Afro-americans there are among us, and to think about it, and to try to work out why it is and how we can change it."

"I think it's important for us to know how few Finns there are among us, and to think about it, and to try to work out why it is and how we can change it."


those who play, and those who potentially will play :D

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Post #17 Posted: Thu Jun 03, 2010 9:53 am 
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Chew Terr wrote:
I think what she means is, if women feel unwelcome to play the game, maybe there is something we and others are doing that makes them feel unwelcome. Certainly, we should make everyone want to play go. But in response to what you said, Joaz, I think we should make sure everyone feels equally welcome.


Absolutely. But if there's a disparity in the groups involved, perhaps we're not making everyone feel equally welcome. If we can establish that this is the case, we should do something about it. (I'm not claiming it is necessarily the case; in fact, I think it probably isn't, but I think we ought to ask ourselves the question.)

Chew Terr wrote:
And of course the (almost absurd) extension of your argument is "I think it's important for us to know how few Westerners there are playing go, and to think about it, and to try to work out why it is and how we can change it."


Well, that's relatively simple to answer, I think - people haven't heard of it. So we work on publicising it ...! :)

Chew Terr wrote:
I hate the 'lolgurl' internet thing, and insofar as it creates a hostile environment for female go players, think it affects our game's community adversely. I don't know how to help it however, as part of it is just twelve-year-old boys being stupid (Seemingly one of the great constants in life).

Yes, you're right. There are things we can all do reduce it, though - for example, stamping down hard on any idiot we see being part of it (not just turning a blind eye and accepting it as "idiots being idiots", but standing up and being counted and making it clear that it's not acceptable behaviour). Another thing we should all do is make sure that we don't casually make things worse - someone making a casual joke with no intent to offend can accidentally upset someone if there's already an awkward atmosphere. A hypothetical woman, new to the community, who's been subjected to several "lolGURL" comments from idiots is likely to assume the whole community thinks that way if she then sees more respected and respectable people making frivolous jokes along the same lines.

Basically - it's usually fine to pat someone on the back, but if they've got sunburnt, it's probably a good idea not to!

Chew Terr wrote:
There's no reason for people to have to show their gender, because anonymity is a reasonable way to avoid that potential unpleasantness. I mean, we all know I'm a dinosaur, so I speak from a serious minority. However, I see nothing wrong in someone (particularly a woman) saying 'Man, statistically few women play the game. Is there a reason?'


Well, there must be a reason. The question is what the reason is, and whether it's a problem. Actually, I suspect that there are many reasons, and only some of them are problems - but I only have hypotheses, not evidence. And since they relate to society as a whole, not Go specifically, I'm finding it quite hard to create a double-blind trial on the subject. :)

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 Post subject: Re: how many female members?
Post #18 Posted: Thu Jun 03, 2010 9:59 am 
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simpkin wrote:
Chew Terr wrote:
I think what she means is, if women feel unwelcome to play the game, maybe there is something we and others are doing that makes them feel unwelcome. Certainly, we should make everyone want to play go. But in response to what you said, Joaz, I think we should make sure everyone feels equally welcome.


Absolutely. But if there's a disparity in the groups involved, perhaps we're not making everyone feel equally welcome. If we can establish that this is the case, we should do something about it. (I'm not claiming it is necessarily the case; in fact, I think it probably isn't, but I think we ought to ask ourselves the question.)


Yep, that's exactly what I meant with essentially my whole post. =)

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Post #19 Posted: Thu Jun 03, 2010 11:20 pm 
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Girlz on the internetz? HAX!

Well no. ok Yes i know of about 4 women on this board. but why do we need to point them out? over some over powered libito?

Nah, there more common then ten years ago (all the women where on virtual place "good times")
i wouldn't be surprised if there where some hiding amongst us...right....now....

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Post #20 Posted: Thu Jun 24, 2010 2:48 am 
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Araban wrote:
Magicwand wrote:
i am curious how many female member in the forum.
0



Hey this is not true. I am a female :P

I am also curios why few females play go :(

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