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 Post subject: Sabaki SGF editor
Post #1 Posted: Thu Apr 14, 2016 7:07 pm 
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A fairly new SGF editor just popped up (though it seems it's been in development for the last year or so): Sabaki https://github.com/yishn/Sabaki.

Looks like it'll run on OS X, Linux, and Windows.

Features

  • Fuzzy stone placement
  • Read and save SGF games and collections
  • Display formatted SGF comments
  • SGF editing tools
  • Lines & arrows markup
  • Game graph
  • Scoring tool
  • Find move
  • Position & move annotations
  • GTP engines support
  • Guess mode

My favorite details is the slightly off-grid placement for each of the stones :)


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Post #2 Posted: Thu Apr 14, 2016 10:00 pm 
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fireproof wrote:
My favorite details is the slightly off-grid placement for each of the stones


Now that you mention it, that really bothers me!

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Post #3 Posted: Thu Apr 14, 2016 10:15 pm 
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Quote:
Quote:
My favorite details is the slightly off-grid placement for each of the stones
Now that you mention it, that really bothers me!
Clearly the user should be able to toggle it. :)

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Post #4 Posted: Fri Apr 15, 2016 5:35 am 
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It has an option "Fuzzy stone placement" which is turned on as default.

I wonder how engines work. I can add them but I have no clue how I can play against an engine or let it generate a move.
EDIT: The added engines appear after a restart of the software.


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 Post subject: Re: Sabaki SGF editor
Post #5 Posted: Fri Apr 15, 2016 7:57 am 
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Kirby wrote:
fireproof wrote:
My favorite details is the slightly off-grid placement for each of the stones


Now that you mention it, that really bothers me!


The flat stones are what get me :)

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Post #6 Posted: Sat Apr 16, 2016 12:32 am 
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fireproof wrote:
The flat stones are what get me :)
Clearly, the user should also be able to toggle between (slate & shell) v. flat stones. :)

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 Post subject: Re: Sabaki SGF editor
Post #7 Posted: Sat Apr 16, 2016 2:07 am 
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Hello, I'm the developer of Sabaki. Ask me anything!

@Kirby: You can turn off fuzzy stone placement in the preferences.

@Sneegurd: Hm... The engines should appear as soon as you finished setting them up. This might be a bug. Can you tell me your OS? Also, if you're playing against GNU Go, you have to pass the following arguments to let GNU Go play in GTP mode: `--mode gtp`

EDIT: Yes, it is indeed a bug. It's fixed now and will be shipped with the next release.

@fireproof, @EdLee: I've designed those stones myself, so they might not look 'real'. If you got free, good-looking stones that I can use you're welcome to share them with me. :)

If you're very desperate, you can change the image files yourself. They are located in `./resources/app/img/goban/`. Sabaki currently uses `stone_1.png` and `stone_-1.png` for black and white stones respectively.


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Post #8 Posted: Sat Apr 16, 2016 5:05 am 
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Hi yishn, thanks for your effort! I have Win7x64. Also I experienced that maybe arguments do not fully work? I am not sure.
Pachi 11 example:

Argument is:
-d 0 threads=1 -f book.dat

So with this argument it should use an opening book file "book.dat", the file is in the pachi.exe directory. Works in Drago, but no use of book here. It also doesn't work with absolute paths. No hint of book loading in engine output. I am under the impression that arguments do not work at all. It's in version 0.11.5

- I think the transparent stones for next move should scale with the UI. EDIT: All markers... (Triangles etc...) should scale
- Maybe some more love for engine game setup, time management...? :)
- Fullscreen should maybe be bound to a more common hotkey: F11

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Post #9 Posted: Sat Apr 16, 2016 5:37 am 
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Sneegurd wrote:
Pachi 11 example:

Argument is:
-d 0 threads=1 -f book.dat

So with this argument it should use an opening book file "book.dat", the file is in the pachi.exe directory. Works in Drago, but no use of book here. It also doesn't work with absolute paths. No hint of book loading in engine output. I am under the impression that arguments do not work at all. It's in version 0.11.5


Arguments definitely work, I suspect it's because Sabaki doesn't set the working directory when executing engines. As a workaround for now, you can specify an absolute path to "book.dat" and make sure you have the path inside quotes:

-d 0 threads=1 -f "C:\path to\book.dat"

Sneegurd wrote:
- I think the transparent stones for next move should scale with the UI. EDIT: All markers... (Triangles etc...) should scale


This is definitely a long term goal. The current implementation is to let CSS handle all board markup stuff due to my lazyness and CSS can't calculate pixels according to the board size afaik.

Sneegurd wrote:
- Maybe some more love for engine game setup, time management...? :)


What do you mean by engine game setup? Since every engine has different options, I'm not sure how feasible it would be.

Sneegurd wrote:
- Fullscreen should maybe be bound to a more common hotkey: F11


In Mac OS X F11 is usually reserved for some OS-specific task and I'm not sure if it is worth the trouble to have different shortcuts for different OS.

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Post #10 Posted: Sat Apr 16, 2016 5:46 am 
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Ah, quotes usually are only necessary when paths have spaces-- but it works, thanks!
With engine game setup I mean if you may add some time management options like canadian byo-yomi etc... Also, if we click "new game" that already there you can specify that you want to do an engine game...

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Post #11 Posted: Sat Apr 16, 2016 6:59 am 
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Sneegurd wrote:
With engine game setup I mean if you may add some time management options like canadian byo-yomi etc...


To do this, Sabaki should have some way to display the time first. I'm figuring out how to do so efficiently and unobstrusively.

Sneegurd wrote:
Also, if we click "new game" that already there you can specify that you want to do an engine game...


Good idea! Thanks for your input!

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Post #12 Posted: Sat Apr 16, 2016 9:34 am 
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yishn wrote:
@fireproof, @EdLee: I've designed those stones myself, so they might not look 'real'. If you got free, good-looking stones that I can use you're welcome to share them with me. :)

If you're very desperate, you can change the image files yourself. They are located in `./resources/app/img/goban/`. Sabaki currently uses `stone_1.png` and `stone_-1.png` for black and white stones respectively.


Wonderful! I'll try to create some images on my own and if they're any good I'd be happy to share them with you.

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Post #13 Posted: Sat Apr 16, 2016 10:44 pm 
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fireproof wrote:
Wonderful! I'll try to create some images on my own and if they're any good I'd be happy to share them with you.

Yeah, this is great. I'm using the altered Drago default stones (for personaly use, that is) which I linked here a while ago: http://senseis.xmp.net/?topic=2782
You can use the black61.png/white61.png, it works.

Screenshot, and look at the lovely stone placement, I like it.
Attachment:
Zwischenablage-1.png
Zwischenablage-1.png [ 606.63 KiB | Viewed 2918 times ]


@OP, just a very minor thing...
- as for off grid placement (which was a good idea), can you show the "current stone" marker also off grid, i.e. in the center of the stone? Looks less weird then, I guess.
- Also a minor one: The file menu has no "Exit" at the bottom, which at least on Windows ...any... application has, I found myself trying to exit your application from there pretty often...
- All lines pngs have a kind of "shadow line", one pixel, which makes the grid look.. blurry. Like as if my eyes get old... :) But I may fix that for myself.

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Post #14 Posted: Sun Apr 17, 2016 3:00 am 
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Sneegurd wrote:
- as for off grid placement (which was a good idea), can you show the "current stone" marker also off grid, i.e. in the center of the stone? Looks less weird then, I guess.


Sabaki should display board markups in the center of the stone regardless of fuzzy placement. Sabaki's stone images have a right-bottom shadow which takes about 8% of the image width and height, so Sabaki compensates this by placing all the markers a little bit to the left top. I think your custom stones don't have any shadow padding... To fix this, you can resize your image canvas to 108%.

Sneegurd wrote:
- Also a minor one: The file menu has no "Exit" at the bottom, which at least on Windows ...any... application has, I found myself trying to exit your application from there pretty often...


I deem that unnecessary, as there are so many ways to close a window already. The closest one is, instead of opening the 'File' menu you can click on the window icon and click on 'Close'.

P.S. I solved the problem with the scalable board markup. This will be shipped with the next release!

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Post #15 Posted: Sun Apr 17, 2016 5:24 am 
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I'd just like to say I really like the default Sabaki stones. Although they don't look "realistic", there's something about the aesthetic of them (especially the black ones).

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Post #16 Posted: Sun Apr 17, 2016 7:06 am 
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yishn wrote:
P.S. I solved the problem with the scalable board markup. This will be shipped with the next release!

YAY :) As for File->Exit, it's just there in any application, not important, but something we're used to :)

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Post #17 Posted: Sun Apr 17, 2016 3:09 pm 
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Sneegurd wrote:
[..] As for File->Exit, it's just there in any application,
Uhm, nope :-)

Quote:
not important, but something we're used to :)
Uhm, no. “We” are used to [program name]-> Quit ;-)

(that’s for OS X :-D but I also (have to) use Windows, so I know what you mean.)

For me … I’m polyglot, I don't really care as long as I have any way I can find.

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Post #18 Posted: Sun Apr 17, 2016 8:24 pm 
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Haha, I wrote "we" for the lulz and was already guessing that was a minor offense. I'm also polyglot :) Unix/Windows. "Have to" is something I mention, when I have to fix my computer illiterates (super duper clueless) relatives[1] Apple computer. Otherwise I have an apple for breakfast only.

Me: Your daughter has already used 80% of her bandwidth quota already on the beginning of the month, due to Youtube consumption...
Him: No problem, 80% is still fast enough


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Post #19 Posted: Sun Apr 17, 2016 9:10 pm 
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Maybe you can do something about ease of use of engine games. Something where all other applications I know are not helpful in.

Let's say I play an engine game against GnuGo and have to interrupt it because of RL reasons. I'd like to easily come back to it. All applications I know do not help here. Ideally your program would invisibly keep track of my actions as good as possible and save as many as possible attributes of the running game. And then simply return, with the correct engine loaded,, to the running game when I start Sabaki again. If it had a clock implemented, clock would also continue at the point where I interrupted the game...

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Post #20 Posted: Mon Apr 18, 2016 6:36 am 
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I'm not sure this would be a good idea. Maybe people just don't want to have an engine loaded because they want to review the game? Or they opened another file and have no intention to start playing against an engine when test-playing?

People who do want to continue a game with an engine can load the unfinished game they saved beforehand, travel to the end, attach the engine and continue playing as if nothing had happened.

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