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 Post subject: Re: Announcing GoReviewPartner - v0.9 (supporting AQ)
Post #121 Posted: Tue Dec 12, 2017 2:52 pm 
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djhbrown wrote:
johnsmith wrote:
I have a feeling that I could skyrocket my rank if I analyze games with GRP every day.
i have a feeling you could skyrocket your rank if you asked Leela's advice before making a move; asking after is too late, because whereas children learn by imitation and Alfie learns by hill-climbing, the adult brain stubbornly refuses to believe that what it already believes could possibly be wrong even when faced with stark evidence of its flawed nature, so at best it can only learn cognitive dissonance. One evidence of this biological certainty is that you won't believe what i just said.
Funny thing is I believe what you just said :D does it disproof your evidence then? Joke aside, I was having professional games in mind, something like trying to learn things pros play and L(Z) suggests and eventually understand and implement those moves and ideas into my games. Also I will think about consulting Leela before making a move and tell you if I made progress, interesting idea.

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 Post subject: Re: Announcing GoReviewPartner - v0.9 (supporting AQ)
Post #122 Posted: Tue Dec 12, 2017 4:33 pm 
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johnsmith wrote:
I believe what you just said :D does it disproof your evidence then?
Of course not - since i said you wouldn't believe what i said, so if you believe what i said then you wouldn't believe what i said, as Euripedes, Russel and Godel said too. However, as it happens, i happen to not believe what i said, from which it logically follows that i do.

That aside - and it's exactly the sort of thing that should be aside, as Euripedes surely well knew but Russel and Godel obviously didn't - asking Leela or Alfie whether before or after isn't going to help you repair your faulty brain unless you know what they are talking about. And since they don't know themselves, all you will do is end up as confused as Carrol's centipede, wondering which leg to move next.

But fear not, gentle heart, a Saviour is coming to rescue your tortured imagination. You can ask it why Alfie reckons such and such, and it will tell you. In plain English with a few pictures to help you see the error of your ways. Rejoice, for Swim is here (except that it isn't, except on paper apart from pnprog's GoMap).

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 Post subject: Re: Announcing GoReviewPartner - v0.9 (supporting AQ)
Post #123 Posted: Wed Dec 13, 2017 4:00 am 
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johnsmith wrote:
Can we soon expect adding Leela Zero in the list of engines?
Can we soon expect Leela Zero to beat GNU Go? :lol:

Joke aside,yes, if Leela Zero strength increases to a level that makes it appropriate to review a game, I will definitively add support for it.

Otherwise, if you (the folk from /r/cbaduk) think GRP could be a good tool to follow/measure its progress, then I can also implement support, no problem.

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 Post subject: Re: Announcing GoReviewPartner - v0.9 (supporting AQ)
Post #124 Posted: Wed Dec 13, 2017 5:41 am 
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djhbrown wrote:
You can ask it why Alfie reckons such and such, and it will tell you.
No it won't. It can only tell you what an Alfie move means to it.

In human-human communication, this is called "projection", wherein a listener or observer projects (what they think is) their own mentality onto the person talking or behaving. And just to make it even more obscure, nobody really knows why they do anything, because 80% of thought is subconscious.

- Why do we bother, Fawlty?
- I didn't know you did, Major

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 Post subject: Re: Announcing GoReviewPartner - v0.9 (supporting AQ)
Post #125 Posted: Wed Dec 13, 2017 12:27 pm 
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Hi, I downloaded the CPU only leela file, and unzipped the Leela folder and tried to open one of my games using the run *.sgf analysis button, but I got an error that said something about no GPU. Did I do something wrong, or is my laptop just incapable of running the program?

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 Post subject: Re: Announcing GoReviewPartner - v0.9 (supporting AQ)
Post #126 Posted: Wed Dec 13, 2017 7:03 pm 
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daal wrote:
Did I do something wrong?
Yes, you didn't follow the maxim: "when all else fails, read the manual"

https://www.sjeng.org/leela.html FAQ:

What do I need to run the "GPU Accelerated" version?

You need a video card with OpenCL 1.1 (or later) capability. This is supported on all recent AMD and NVIDIA cards. Make sure the latest drivers for the video card are installed. The detected video card can be seen in the Help->About menu.
Can I run the "GPU Accelerated" version on the built-in graphics of my CPU?

This only makes sense if the built-in GPU is faster at doing the Deep Learning calculations than the CPU itself. Intel CPUs are typically very fast, with a weak built-in GPU, so this is not recommended. AMD APU's typically have a slow CPU but a fast GPU, so it would be worthwhile on those.

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 Post subject: Re: Announcing GoReviewPartner - v0.9 (supporting AQ)
Post #127 Posted: Thu Dec 14, 2017 1:57 am 
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djhbrown wrote:
daal wrote:
Did I do something wrong?
Yes, you didn't follow the maxim: "when all else fails, read the manual"

https://www.sjeng.org/leela.html FAQ:

What do I need to run the "GPU Accelerated" version?

You need a video card with OpenCL 1.1 (or later) capability. This is supported on all recent AMD and NVIDIA cards. Make sure the latest drivers for the video card are installed. The detected video card can be seen in the Help->About menu.
Can I run the "GPU Accelerated" version on the built-in graphics of my CPU?

This only makes sense if the built-in GPU is faster at doing the Deep Learning calculations than the CPU itself. Intel CPUs are typically very fast, with a weak built-in GPU, so this is not recommended. AMD APU's typically have a slow CPU but a fast GPU, so it would be worthwhile on those.


Thanks for the reply, but I know that I don't have a capable video card on my laptop, which is why instead of downloading the GPU version of GoReviewPartner, I downloaded the CPU only one - but this also seems to want me to have a video card. Also, I see that you quoted Leela's FAQ, not GRP's - I did not think that these programs were identical, but rather that GRP can optionally use the Leela engine to review a game. When it does so, does it necessarily use Leela's GPU accelerated version? If so, that would seemingly defeat the purpose of offering a CPU only version...

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 Post subject: Re: Announcing GoReviewPartner - v0.9 (supporting AQ)
Post #128 Posted: Thu Dec 14, 2017 8:39 am 
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daal wrote:
Thanks for the reply, but I know that I don't have a capable video card on my laptop, which is why instead of downloading the GPU version of GoReviewPartner, I downloaded the CPU only one - but this also seems to want me to have a video card. Also, I see that you quoted Leela's FAQ, not GRP's - I did not think that these programs were identical, but rather that GRP can optionally use the Leela engine to review a game. When it does so, does it necessarily use Leela's GPU accelerated version? If so, that would seemingly defeat the purpose of offering a CPU only version...

You are right, the goreviewpartner-v0.9-Leela-no-gpu only requires CPU. I don't understand your issue.

Could you post a screenshot of that error?

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 Post subject: Re: Announcing GoReviewPartner - v0.9 (supporting AQ)
Post #129 Posted: Thu Dec 14, 2017 3:17 pm 
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i vaguely remember that when i downloaded and installed Leela, both the cpu and gpu versions were automatically installed by Fedora. could it be that in GRP settings you are citing the gpu (= OpenCL) version of Leela?
extract from http://ns1297.imingo.net/grp-documentation/doc.htm
Attachment:
grpleelasettings.png
grpleelasettings.png [ 81.43 KiB | Viewed 3279 times ]

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 Post subject: Re: Announcing GoReviewPartner - v0.9 (supporting AQ)
Post #130 Posted: Thu Dec 14, 2017 3:48 pm 
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Maybe it has something to do with "ray?" When I click "run *.sgf analysis" it says that the bot to use for analysis is ray, and I don't know how to change it to leela...
Attachment:
ray.jpg
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 Post subject: Re: Announcing GoReviewPartner - v0.9 (supporting AQ)
Post #131 Posted: Thu Dec 14, 2017 8:06 pm 
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in grp settings, there's a little tickbox; maybe if you tick more than one bot, it defaults to pnprog's favourite - from your output, it's trying to use Ray
Attachment:
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 Post subject: Re: Announcing GoReviewPartner - v0.9 (supporting AQ)
Post #132 Posted: Fri Dec 15, 2017 1:49 am 
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djhbrown is right.

And it is my mistake in fact, the goreviewpartner-v0.9-Leela.zip I prepared for download includes the config file for the Ray version without GPU.

So quick step to fix this:

1/ In the setting box, navigate to Ray settings parts:
Image

2/ Clean the command setting (let it empty)

3/ Navigate to Leela settings parts, the command setting should be empty:

4/ Add this command for Leela:
Code:
Leela0110GTP/Leela0110GTP.exe

Image

5/ Save settings, that should be ok!

In the meantime, I will repack the zip for Leela with the correct config file

Thanks for pointing out this mistake! I feel pretty bad about this, because Leela-no-gpu is the version I recommend to use for new comers, and it won't work out of the box :oops:

Quote:
i vaguely remember that when i downloaded and installed Leela, both the cpu and gpu versions were automatically installed by Fedora.
For Windows users, I have prepared separate zip files for all bots, and separate zip for GPU or CPU, with appropriate config files, so that running GRP is as simple as downloading, unziping, and running the exe. One big download for all bots would be to heavy to download.

Edit: just fixed the zip file

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 Post subject: Re: Announcing GoReviewPartner - v0.9 (supporting AQ)
Post #133 Posted: Fri Dec 15, 2017 10:07 am 
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pnprog wrote:
So quick step to fix this:
....
Thanks! That worked.

Quote:
Edit: just fixed the zip file

I downloaded it again, but it still didn't work out of the box...

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 Post subject: Re: Announcing GoReviewPartner - v0.9 (supporting AQ)
Post #134 Posted: Sat Dec 16, 2017 1:51 am 
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daal wrote:
Quote:
Edit: just fixed the zip file

I downloaded it again, but it still didn't work out of the box...

Hum... I just downloaded from my friend's computer (so no existing GRP on this computer) and it just worked out of the box.

Maybe you re-opened the previous downloaded file?

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 Post subject: Re: Announcing GoReviewPartner - v0.9 (supporting AQ)
Post #135 Posted: Sat Dec 16, 2017 9:09 am 
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Is there a way to have a move marked on the graph? So we can quickly know where we are currently in the game?

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 Post subject: Re: Announcing GoReviewPartner - v0.9 (supporting AQ)
Post #136 Posted: Sun Dec 17, 2017 7:39 pm 
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Hi!
johnsmith wrote:
Is there a way to have a move marked on the graph? So we can quickly know where we are currently in the game?
Bring your mouse over the graph and if will display the move number and % below the graph. One click brings you to that position on the analysis panel. Is that what you need?

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 Post subject: Re: Announcing GoReviewPartner - v0.9 (supporting AQ)
Post #137 Posted: Mon Dec 18, 2017 2:44 am 
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pnprog wrote:
Hi!
johnsmith wrote:
Is there a way to have a move marked on the graph? So we can quickly know where we are currently in the game?
Bring your mouse over the graph and if will display the move number and % below the graph. One click brings you to that position on the analysis panel. Is that what you need?
When I'm (for example) on move 42 in the game window, is it possible to have (for example) yellow highlighted bar in graph window on move 42?

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 Post subject: Re: Announcing GoReviewPartner - v0.9 (supporting AQ)
Post #138 Posted: Sat Dec 23, 2017 9:22 pm 
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Thank you for this great program!

I was just wondering if the following were possible:

-Can there be support for zen 7?
-I really like the comparison chart, which helps to identify my biggest mistakes which I can focus on. To this end, is it also possible to state the numerical difference in value between my move and Leela's move (reviews by rosystein seem to do something similar (https://rosystein.com/))? Right now, I calculate this information manually by going one move before, and calculating the difference based on the figures provided in the comments to the right goban.

By the way, are there any recommendations on how much time we should give Leela to consider each move, in order to say, have it reviewed at the strength of tygem 9d? I am using the CPU-only version, with intel i5-6200U CPU @ 2.30GHZ.

Many thanks once again!

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 Post subject: Re: Announcing GoReviewPartner - v0.9 (supporting AQ)
Post #139 Posted: Fri Dec 29, 2017 5:44 am 
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johnsmith wrote:
pnprog wrote:
Hi!
johnsmith wrote:
Is there a way to have a move marked on the graph? So we can quickly know where we are currently in the game?
Bring your mouse over the graph and if will display the move number and % below the graph. One click brings you to that position on the analysis panel. Is that what you need?
When I'm (for example) on move 42 in the game window, is it possible to have (for example) yellow highlighted bar in graph window on move 42?
Should be possible, I will look into it for next version.

Caesura wrote:
Can there be support for zen 7?
For this, I need Zen to work as GTP version. As far as I now, Zen does not provide that feature. (otherwise, there would be plenty of Zen bots available on OGS/KGS... and nobody would buy their software).

Caesura wrote:
I really like the comparison chart, which helps to identify my biggest mistakes which I can focus on. To this end, is it also possible to state the numerical difference in value between my move and Leela's move (reviews by rosystein seem to do something similar (https://rosystein.com/))? Right now, I calculate this information manually by going one move before, and calculating the difference based on the figures provided in the comments to the right goban.
Currently, the red bar (or green bar) indicates that difference:
GRP documentation wrote:
By comparing the win rate at one move (when the bot best move would be played) with the win rate of the following move (the case when the actual game move was played), one can draw a comparison chart for each color.
I think this is the same quantity that your are calculating. The exact value appears on the graph when you bring your mouse pointer above the red (or green) bar:
Attachment:
example_graph.png
example_graph.png [ 27.6 KiB | Viewed 2876 times ]

You can the indication below the graph: "The computer believes it's own move win rate would be 17.76pp higher." Here, 17.76pp means 17.76 percentage point. In this example, the game move win rate was 47.97%, and the computer own move win rate is 47.97% + 17.76pp = 65.73%

Is that what you need?

Regarding recommendation for thinking time, I don't know as well. You will get more information by asking on reddit /r/cbaduk

I am currently out of town, but I plan to release a new version of GRP with Leela Zero support. I read a few report of reddit indicating its strength is increasing quickly, and may reach dan level before February. This is quite exiting!

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 Post subject: Re: Announcing GoReviewPartner - v0.9 (supporting AQ)
Post #140 Posted: Sun Dec 31, 2017 1:41 pm 
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pnprog wrote:
I am currently out of town, but I plan to release a new version of GRP with Leela Zero support. I read a few report of reddit indicating its strength is increasing quickly, and may reach dan level before February. This is quite exiting!
I think it already is at dan level, beating 3d hirabot here and there. We have observed some josekis emerging from selfplay as well.

I'm really looking forward to LZ implementation in GRP!

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