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 Post subject: Re: Announcing GoReviewPartner
Post #21 Posted: Sun Mar 26, 2017 4:46 pm 
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Hi!

So I made some of the modification that were mentioned above:
  • Possibility to start analysis of sgf directly from an URL (as I happen to only review my OGS games, I'm saving some time for myself)
  • Goban coordinates
  • Plenty of bug fixes (including the one mentioned in the discussion)
  • Added +/- 10 moves buttons

For the "sgf from URL" feature, I tried it on OGS games, this forum games, and some other places, but I am not 100% sure it will work everywhere. Plus, I haven't tried it under windows, I will try it from work tomorrow. But, as with every file download from Internet, it comes with a risk. So use it only from safe places (Internet servers, good reputation web sites...). To go into details:
  • Currently, the whole file is downloaded, then the software will attempt to interpret it as a sgf file. So if you give it an URL pointing toward a really big file, it will happily spend the next fews hours downloading it before failing to open it...
  • I use the gomill python library to open sgf files, I do not know how the library behave when given a file that is not a sgf file. Maybe some carefully crafted file could result in a safety issue. But that's true for every sgf editor.

But I haven't implement my "mouse wheel scrolling" feature yet :-|

Version 0.4 for windows can be downloaded from the usual place, from Github for Linux and Mac

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 Post subject: Re: Announcing GoReviewPartner
Post #22 Posted: Mon Mar 27, 2017 6:47 am 
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Hi,

Dontbtme wrote:
I can analyze some of my games but not every one of them for some reason. When I can't, I got this message: "ValueError: property with no values"

Is this happening during analysis or during review after the analysis?
Can you share with me one sgf file (or rsfg file) that doesn't work? that's the best way for me to understand and fix that.

Dontbtme wrote:
I like a lot that we can limit the analysis to segments of the game (move a-b, c-d, e-f, etc.) but it would be wonderful if we could also restrict the analysis to Black or White moves only, so as to focus on our own mistakes and split the analysis time/power required (which would come in handy when analyzing the whole game).

Adding the possibility to analyses only white or black or both for all the segments is easy (like a three choice radio button).

Then, the possibility to have sometime black, or sometime white, or sometime both depending of the segment is complicated. Not complicated to program, but complicated to ask the user for what he wants for each segments.
But could be something like "10-20, b:33, b:60-140, w:151, 186-333" that would mean "analysis of both colors for moves 10-20 and 186-333, and black only for move 33 and moves 60-140, and white only for move 151". This is still doable (and I can leave it as a hidden feature).

But then, different thinking times for different segment is like adding one layer of complexity for the user on top of that.
In fact, to set up the thinking time at X second, I set up Leela game time setting as 0 second total time, plus 1 period of bioyomi of X seconds. I am not sure if I can set that more than one time without Leela complaining :D

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 Post subject: Re: Announcing GoReviewPartner
Post #23 Posted: Mon Mar 27, 2017 1:33 pm 
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Hi

Thanks for the new version and features. I will test it asap ! :salute:

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Post #24 Posted: Thu Mar 30, 2017 6:20 am 
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Hi again. Sorry for not answering sooner but, you know: life and work and stuff ^_^
pnprog wrote:
Hi,

Dontbtme wrote:
I can analyze some of my games but not every one of them for some reason. When I can't, I got this message: "ValueError: property with no values"

Is this happening during analysis or during review after the analysis?
Can you share with me one sgf file (or rsfg file) that doesn't work? that's the best way for me to understand and fix that.


Here is a file I picked from my Tygem record, converted into an sgf file using MultiGo and then renamed before trying to analyze it with GoReviewPartner0.4, and for which I get the following message: "ValueError: property with no values"


pnprog wrote:
Then, the possibility to have sometime black, or sometime white, or sometime both depending of the segment is complicated. Not complicated to program, but complicated to ask the user for what he wants for each segments.

I didn't think of the possibility of analyzing different segments with different colors, but then if your only concern is to make it easy for the user, you could propose this feature like so:
[EDITED]
Analyse Both Colors: a-b, etc.
Analyse Black:
Analyse White:
[/EDITED]

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Post #25 Posted: Sat Apr 01, 2017 7:33 am 
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Okay, so I looked into the sgf code of one of my Tygem-".gib"-converted-to-".sgf"-with-Multigo files that didn't work on GoReviewPartner, and compared it to a KGS file that worked.

I had this for the problematic .gib converted to .sgf file:
(;CA[Windows-1252]SZ[19]AP[MultiGo:4.4.4]GN[Rank]PC[Tygem Baduk]PB[lcjztj ]BR[2D]PW[Dontpadme ]WR[2D]KM[6.5]RE[black wins by resignation]MULTIGOGM[0]TM[Time limit 5minute : 30 second countdown 3 time]AN[Even : Black 6.5 Dum];B[dp];W[pp];etc.

I had this for the working untouched KGS file:
(;GM[1]FF[4]CA[UTF-8]AP[CGoban3]ST[2]RU[Japanese]SZ[19]KM[6.50]TM[1500]OT[5x30 byo-yomi]PW[Inazuma]PB[Dontbtme]WR[2d]BR[2k]DT[2017-03-31]PC[The KGS Go Server at httpwww.gokgs.com]RE[B+Resign];B[pd]BL[1492.764];W[dd]WL[1497.539];etc.

After some digging, turns out the problem was the "MULTIGOGM[0]".
So I replaced it by "GM[1]"... and GoReviewPartner finally accepted to analyse it ^_^
Anyway, Seems like it's more of a MultiGo problem than a GoReviewPartner one, and now that I know what to change to make it work, it won't cost me more than a few seconds each time, but I thought it was worth noticing the problem to you, as I suppose I'm not the only one who will have this problem (though maybe my multigo software is outdated?).
Again, thanks a lot for all your hard work; it's been really helpful to me ^^

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Post #26 Posted: Sat Apr 01, 2017 8:13 am 
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1. Can you include also Rayon for analysis?
2. I have installed the goreviewpartner 0.4 but I can't find a gui, I don't want to play in the command window.

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Post #27 Posted: Fri Apr 07, 2017 7:10 am 
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Dontbtme wrote:
Okay, so I looked into the sgf code of one of my Tygem-".gib"-converted-to-".sgf"-with-Multigo files that didn't work on GoReviewPartner, and compared it to a KGS file that worked.

I had this for the problematic .gib converted to .sgf file:
(;CA[Windows-1252]SZ[19]AP[MultiGo:4.4.4]GN[Rank]PC[Tygem Baduk]PB[lcjztj ]BR[2D]PW[Dontpadme ]WR[2D]KM[6.5]RE[black wins by resignation]MULTIGOGM[0]TM[Time limit 5minute : 30 second countdown 3 time]AN[Even : Black 6.5 Dum];B[dp];W[pp];etc.

I had this for the working untouched KGS file:
(;GM[1]FF[4]CA[UTF-8]AP[CGoban3]ST[2]RU[Japanese]SZ[19]KM[6.50]TM[1500]OT[5x30 byo-yomi]PW[Inazuma]PB[Dontbtme]WR[2d]BR[2k]DT[2017-03-31]PC[The KGS Go Server at httpwww.gokgs.com]RE[B+Resign];B[pd]BL[1492.764];W[dd]WL[1497.539];etc.

After some digging, turns out the problem was the "MULTIGOGM[0]".
So I replaced it by "GM[1]"... and GoReviewPartner finally accepted to analyse it ^_^
Anyway, Seems like it's more of a MultiGo problem than a GoReviewPartner one, and now that I know what to change to make it work, it won't cost me more than a few seconds each time, but I thought it was worth noticing the problem to you, as I suppose I'm not the only one who will have this problem (though maybe my multigo software is outdated?).
Again, thanks a lot for all your hard work; it's been really helpful to me ^^


Hi!

Sorry for late reply, I was out of town last week for the Chinese tomb sweeping festival.

This MULTIGOGM issue is intriguing, but it is probably an issue with the Gomill library that is used, because two of my other Go softwares can open this sgf file without issue. I will have a deeper look this weekend. I may have to send a patch to the Gomill authors. Thanks for reporting this issue.

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 Post subject: Re: Announcing GoReviewPartner
Post #28 Posted: Fri Apr 07, 2017 7:17 am 
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Hi!

goame wrote:
1. Can you include also Rayon for analysis?
I really want that. For me it would be best to have a complete open source solution.
So far, I was not able to compile Rayon under Linux. I will have a try with Windows during the weekend to see what Rayon has to offer.

goame wrote:
2. I have installed the goreviewpartner 0.4 but I can't find a gui, I don't want to play in the command window.
This software is made to be used with GUI. Inside the zip, there is first folder /goreviewpartner-0.4 and inside that folder, you will find a exe file GoReviewPartner.exe, this is the exe you need to run.

No installation required, the software is standalone.

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Post #29 Posted: Fri Apr 07, 2017 8:57 am 
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pnprog wrote:
This MULTIGOGM issue is intriguing, but it is probably an issue with the Gomill library that is used, because two of my other Go softwares can open this sgf file without issue. I will have a deeper look this weekend. I may have to send a patch to the Gomill authors. Thanks for reporting this issue.

In fact, it appears MULTIGOGM is a private extension added by MultiGo. Normally, Gomill should just ignore it, but somehow he does not. I find the explanation in the sgf documentation.

Manually, I think it's safe for you to just remove that part from the sgf: MULTIGOGM[0]

And then, I made a quick (and dirty) fix to my code to remove that automatically. At least, it should work if you only use MultiGo for conversion. I pushed the modification to Github in case you know how to run python code. Otherwise, I will release a v0.5 probably this Sunday.

By the way, I had a look at your Youtube channel, the real time game comments are very nice! (and relevant for my level) I just watched 2 of them, I will probably watch the entire list :tmbup:

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Post #30 Posted: Fri Apr 07, 2017 9:10 am 
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pnprog wrote:
This MULTIGOGM issue is intriguing

It is this line in gomill/sgf_grammar.py: (?P<I> [A-Z]{1,8} ) # PropIdent
It says that a property identifier has length 1-8. But MULTIGOGM has length 9.

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Post #31 Posted: Fri Apr 07, 2017 10:33 am 
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Thanks for this tool! It works really well on windows.

My 20 cents: maybe incorporate Net Win % alongside the existing ones.

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Post #32 Posted: Sat Apr 08, 2017 5:00 am 
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Thx for this great tool :bow: :clap: :study:

Is Gnugo so good at score estimation?
I looked at a game and Gnugo said that black was for some moves more or less +10.5 but Leela said 80% winning chances for white.

It would be good to have some important points:
-2 more buttons to jump to the last or first move.
-play stones more in the middle of the intersections.
-more nice and round stones.
-show white and black moyo.
-show white and black territory.

-click in the right window on variation a, b, c,... and let me see every move with the arrow keys, so it is easier to remember and better to learn.
-use different colors for best, second ... variation.
-take only the 6 moves (variations) with the highest playouts, it doesn't make sense the have one variation with 64400 playouts and another mit 47 playouts.
-display variation 2-6 only if they have at least 25% playouts from the first variation with the most playouts.
-an infinite analysis so I can still analyse the game when looking on it after your first analysis is finished.
-also the number of playouts/simulations of the first analysis for each move should be saved. When I analyse the game later and get higher playouts, the data should change automatically.

There is a new version rn-3.11.1 https://github.com/zakki/Ray/releases see also the issues and ask there if you need help;)

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Post #33 Posted: Sat Apr 08, 2017 10:40 pm 
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aeb wrote:
It is this line in gomill/sgf_grammar.py: (?P<I> [A-Z]{1,8} ) # PropIdent
It says that a property identifier has length 1-8. But MULTIGOGM has length 9.
Excellent!

I will see if I can submit/push a patch to the gomill team. At least I can fix that in my software.

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Post #34 Posted: Sat Apr 08, 2017 10:41 pm 
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johnsmith wrote:
My 20 cents: maybe incorporate Net Win % alongside the existing ones.
Added to my to do list for v0.5

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Post #35 Posted: Sat Apr 08, 2017 11:05 pm 
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goame wrote:
Is Gnugo so good at score estimation?
I looked at a game and Gnugo said that black was for some moves more or less +10.5 but Leela said 80% winning chances for white.
Frankly speaking, no, it sucks until the game reaches the end game :sad:
But I won't drop Gnugo support for now, I plan to separate the analysis in different tools, with one tool for Gnugo, one for Leela, one for rayon or any other bot that I can work with. You may ask who may need a review by Gnugo, but I believe Gnugo moves are very ok for 15k and above, plus, the analysis time would be ways faster than MCTS bots. Gnugo has plenty of things to offer for beginners.

goame wrote:
-2 more buttons to jump to the last or first move.
Added to my todo list for v0.5
goame wrote:
-play stones more in the middle of the intersections.
This is the fuzzy stone parameters in settings, change it to 0
goame wrote:
-more nice and round stones.
At least, the stones should be round right now :shock: For a better looking stone, it's not in my priority list, but it will come one day
goame wrote:
-show white and black moyo.
-show white and black territory.
I do not know any method to do that in fact. The closest I got so far is asking Gnugo to quickly play until the end of the game to find out, but it's slow, and does not really work when there are group with unclear life and death status.

goame wrote:
-click in the right window on variation a, b, c,... and let me see every move with the arrow keys, so it is easier to remember and better to learn.
Yes, I plan to do that soon. I plan to use the mouse wheel instead of the keyboard, but that's the idea. Yeah, maybe I should use both keyboard and mouse wheel, for laptop users with out mouse wheel.

goame wrote:
-use different colors for best, second ... variation.
Currently, the letters indicate the order from best (A) to not so good (B, C, D) and blue/red to differentiate winning rate >50% I do not have much margin to change the colors in fact

goame wrote:
-take only the 6 moves (variations) with the highest playouts, it doesn't make sense the have one variation with 64400 playouts and another mit 47 playouts.
-display variation 2-6 only if they have at least 25% playouts from the first variation with the most playouts.
-an infinite analysis so I can still analyse the game when looking on it after your first analysis is finished.
-also the number of playouts/simulations of the first analysis for each move should be saved. When I analyse the game later and get higher playouts, the data should change automatically.
Those are idea that have more to see with Leela internal algorithm. Not something I can change at my level. It will probably evolve as Leela improve in the near future.

goame wrote:
There is a new version rn-3.11.1 https://github.com/zakki/Ray/releases see also the issues and ask there if you need help;)
Are you a member of Ray developer team????

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Post #36 Posted: Sun Apr 09, 2017 5:38 am 
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goame wrote:
-show white and black moyo.
-show white and black territory.
I do not know any method to do that in fact. The closest I got so far is asking Gnugo to quickly play until the end of the game to find out, but it's slow, and does not really work when there are group with unclear life and death status.

Leela has an 'influence' command I think it's called. You could parse that for a bit of info to display.

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Post #37 Posted: Mon Apr 10, 2017 7:08 am 
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Hi!
I finally had a quick try with Ray (rn-3.11.1) under Windows.

As it stands now, Ray seems to not offer that much useful information, see by yourself the result of GTP command "genmove black":
Attachment:
ray_stderr.png
ray_stderr.png [ 47.82 KiB | Viewed 1026 times ]

I think the interesting part is the "Best Sequence" that should shows what Ray expects to be the following moves and the different winning percentages (I do not know the meaning).

For comparison, Leela always propose a several sequences with winning percentage, that's much more information useful to game review.

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Post #38 Posted: Mon Apr 10, 2017 8:41 pm 
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pnprog wrote:
In fact, it was more a issue with their declining sight.. And so I implemented this sort of feature in all my Go related softwares.

actually, it isn't. i noticed that behaviour in Japan donkeys' years ago, and realised that it is their sense of the aesthetic - even pros do it in tv games, as do their pro commentators - Shinto is very close to nature, and there are no straight lines in nature (except in Feynman diagrams and cloud chambers tracking subatomic particles). Some players, determined to keep the board beautiful, would even occasionally shift their previous stone a smidgen back offline after i had repositioned it on the spot before making my move.

of course, in the wrong hands, misplacing stones can be used to deceitfully try to throw opp off.

Nevertheless, having the fuzzy placement option in your client makes it all more beautiful.

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Post #39 Posted: Mon Apr 10, 2017 8:55 pm 
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goame wrote:
Is Gnugo so good at score estimation?
no, it's not.


Last edited by djhbrown on Tue May 02, 2017 12:06 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Post #40 Posted: Mon Apr 10, 2017 8:59 pm 
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roy7 wrote:
goame wrote:
-show white and black moyo.
-show white and black territory.
I do not know any method to do that

i do :)
https://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm ... id=2818149

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