#187 lovelove vs Marcus

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lovelove
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Re: #187 lovelove vs Marcus

Post by lovelove »

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm51 Prisoners:
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . X . . . . . X X . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . X O O X . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . X X O O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O X X . |
$$ | . . X . . O . . . . . . . . . O O O . |
$$ | . . X O . O X X . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . X O O O . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O , . X X 8 9 , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . X . O X 7 X . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X X O O . . . . O . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . O . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . X X X . . . . . . . . . O . X . . |
$$ | . . . O . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , O . O . . , . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . O X X X . X . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
Amsterdam, soon.
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skydyr
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Re: #187 lovelove vs Marcus

Post by skydyr »

Marcus wrote:
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm56 Prisoners:
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . X . . . . . X X . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . X O O X . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . X X O O . |
$$ | . . . . . . 5 . . . . . . . X O X X . |
$$ | . . X . . O . . . . . . . . . O O O . |
$$ | . . X O . O X X . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . X O O O . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O , . X X 3 4 , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . X . O X 2 1 . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . b . X X O O . . . . O . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . O a . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . X X X . . . . . . . . . O . X . . |
$$ | . . . O . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , O . O . . , . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . O X X X . X . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


I'm sealed in, but I get a chance to come back to my weak cutting stones and attack the group on the left. I think I have enough room for a second eye on the side or in the corner, so the group, while sealed in, is safe(-ish). There's even some cut aji left at 'a' so I can look at trying to exploit that later, though I can't yet see how.

W still has a dangerous attack at 'b', but I think (actually, I'm sure) I can handle that.

I think it's more likely that W will try to erase my eye and continue the fight. Sente is important in this fight, I think, and I don't think lovelove wants to give it up so easily.


I don't understand the purpose of 56. It looks like black is forcing white to seal him in, and in exchange playing a stone that is practically dead. If black wants to make the eye, why not make it directly and preserve the possibility of a push and cut if white responds, or help the cutting stones immediately if they are so urgent?
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Marcus
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Re: #187 lovelove vs Marcus

Post by Marcus »

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm51 Prisoners:
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . X . . . . . X X . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . X O O X . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . X X O O . |
$$ | . . . . . . 0 . . . . . . . X O X X . |
$$ | . . X . . O . . . . . . . . . O O O . |
$$ | . . X O . O X X . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . X O O O . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O , . X X X O , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . X . O X O X . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X X O O . . . . O . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . O . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . X X X . . . . . . . . . O . X . . |
$$ | . . . O . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , O . O . . , . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . O X X X . X . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


According to plan. Here's where I start to doubt my plans. The only path is forward! At the very least, I look forward to the lesson about to be given to me, should it turn out that this fight is Black's DOOM!
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lovelove
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Re: #187 lovelove vs Marcus

Post by lovelove »

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm61 Prisoners:
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . X . . . . . X X . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . X O O X . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . X X O O . |
$$ | . . . . . . X . . . . . . . X O X X . |
$$ | . . X . . O 1 . . . . . . . . O O O . |
$$ | . . X O . O X X . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . X O O O . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O , . X X X O , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . X . O X O X . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X X O O . . . . O . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . O . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . X X X . . . . . . . . . O . X . . |
$$ | . . . O . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , O . O . . , . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . O X X X . X . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
Amsterdam, soon.
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Marcus
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Re: #187 lovelove vs Marcus

Post by Marcus »

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm61 Prisoners:
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . X . . . . . X X . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . X O O X . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . X X O O . |
$$ | . . . . . . X . . . . . . . X O X X . |
$$ | . . X . . O O 2 . . . . . . . O O O . |
$$ | . . X O . O X X . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . X O O O . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O , . X X X O , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . X . O X O X . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X X O O . . . . O . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . O . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . X X X . . . . . . . . . O . X . . |
$$ | . . . O . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , O . O . . , . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . O X X X . X . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


No question, I expect him to cut me here. My plan is to take it like a man! :P Seriously, though, I need to make sure I watch every new group we make, both his and mine. There are going to be a lot of important cutting stones in the near future of this game.
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lovelove
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Re: #187 lovelove vs Marcus

Post by lovelove »

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm61 Prisoners:
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . X . . . . . X X . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . X O O X . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . X X O O . |
$$ | . . . . . . X 3 . . . . . . X O X X . |
$$ | . . X . . O O X . . . . . . . O O O . |
$$ | . . X O . O X X . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . X O O O . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O , . X X X O , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . X . O X O X . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X X O O . . . . O . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . O . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . X X X . . . . . . . . . O . X . . |
$$ | . . . O . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , O . O . . , . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . O X X X . X . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Finally! I got a satisfying result.
Amsterdam, soon.
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peppernut
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Re: #187 lovelove vs Marcus

Post by peppernut »

for Marcus:
As you expected this cut, did you look at responses before allowing it? What do you expect white to try?


for observers:
It seemed to me that Black gets into a lot of trouble trying to save both sides of the cut:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm63 Prisoners:
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . X . . . . . X X . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . X O O X . . |
$$ | . . . X . . 6 5 . . . . . . X X O O . |
$$ | . . . . . a X 3 . . . . . . X O X X . |
$$ | . . X . . O O X 4 b . . . . . O O O . |
$$ | . . X O . O X X . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . X O O O . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O , . X X X O , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . X . O X O X . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X X O O . . . . O . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . O . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . X X X . . . . . . . . . O . X . . |
$$ | . . . O . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , O . O . . , . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . O X X X . X . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


if :b68: at a, :w69: at b.

:b66: at J14 only helps white, so the empty triangle seems mandatory.

In any case white has a lot of options and any misstep from black and he loses cutting stones.
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topazg
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Re: #187 lovelove vs Marcus

Post by topazg »

@peppernut:

FYI: :b66: @ K12 is normal shape unless :w67: @ K13 kills (which it doesn't, directly at least, here)
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Marcus
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Re: #187 lovelove vs Marcus

Post by Marcus »

Writing up my notes for this move has reminded me of how much I'm enjoying this game. I just want to say thanks for this opportunity, lovelove, I feel I'm getting a lot out of it already.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm61 Prisoners:
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . X . . . . . X X . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . X O O X . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . X X O O . |
$$ | . . . . . . X O . . . . . . X O X X . |
$$ | . . X . . O O X . . . . . . . O O O . |
$$ | . . X O . O X X . 4 . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . X O O O . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O , . X X X O , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . X . O X O X . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X X O O . . . . O . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . O . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . X X X . . . . . . . . . O . X . . |
$$ | . . . O . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , O . O . . , . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . O X X X . X . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


peppernut:
Yes, I have been doing a fair bit of reading. In fact, we have not yet deviated from the main line I read out back at move :b56:. That does make me a little bit nervous, because, while I can usually predict quite accurately how a game will go, my evaluation of how GOOD that line of play is for me has always been spotty at best.

Here, for instance, I am trying to use my stones in the upper left quadrant as support for the fight In this case, my G14 stone cannot be captured in a ladder (for now) so I can concentrate on keeping the other weak group at H13 alive to keep White separated. When I played K9, my plan (however good or bad it turns out to be) was to give White the choice of either continuing the fight towards the center, which would ruin any points lovelove could possibly make there (so long as I survived), or to seal me off in gote so I could go back to the other weak group in the original cut and strengthen it. This allows me to continue to attack the weak White group on the left. My stones at D17, D15, C12, C13 and K17, as well as the strength I have in the P14 group, all provide support for that fight.

As for what White will try, I could see White trying to make it even more complicated by making yet another cut:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm65 Prisoners:
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . X . . . . . X X . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . X O O X . . |
$$ | . . . X . 6 . 5 . . . . . . X X O O . |
$$ | . . . . . . X O 4 . . . . . X O X X . |
$$ | . . X . . O O X 2 3 . . . . . O O O . |
$$ | . . X O . O X X 1 X . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . X O O O . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O , . X X X O , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . X . O X O X . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X X O O . . . . O . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . O . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . X X X . . . . . . . . . O . X . . |
$$ | . . . O . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , O . O . . , . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . O X X X . X . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


I still have a weak group for White to attack, but the support stones I have at the top of the board make White's choices more limited. White could try to build some support first, but as complicated as it could get, I don't see what lovelove could do beyond the following, which doesn't seem to work (though I could be missing something in my reading; I usually am missing something):

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm65 Prisoners:
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . X . . . . . X X . . |
$$ | . . . , . . 5 . . , . . . X O O X . . |
$$ | . . . X . 1 2 6 . . . . . . X X O O . |
$$ | . . . . . . X O 3 . . . . . X O X X . |
$$ | . . X . . O O X . 4 . . . . . O O O . |
$$ | . . X O . O X X . X . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . X O O O . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O , . X X X O , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . X . O X O X . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X X O O . . . . O . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . O . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . X X X . . . . . . . . . O . X . . |
$$ | . . . O . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , O . O . . , . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . O X X X . X . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


I'm feeling pretty confident in my reading. However, I'm also quite aware that lovelove holds more experience over me and I look forward to whatever solution he has to the problem I'm posing him on the board. This is a great learning opportunity, and I am grateful lovelove for playing it with me.

Anyways, I hope that covered what you were asking. I tend to meander with my thoughts. Please feel free to ask follow up questions.


Observers:
What a great fight! I can't wait to see what lovelove plays next!
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EdLee
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Post by EdLee »

For beginners. The exchanges :b56: :w57: :b58: :w59: are bad for B: B is left with a broken shape
and W is very strong on the outside:
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$W
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O X X . |
$$ | . . X . . O . . . . . . . . . O O O . |
$$ | . . X O . O X X . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . X O @ @ . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O , . X X B @ , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . X . O B @ B . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X X @ @ . . . . O . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . O . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . X X X . . . . . . . . . O . X . . |[/go]
As skydyr said, it's much better for B to simply play :b1: directly, without the above bad exchanges for B:
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$B
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O X X . |
$$ | . . X . . O . . . . . . . . . O O O . |
$$ | . . X O . O X X . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . X O O O . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O , . X X 1 . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . X . O X . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X X O O . . . . O . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . O . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . X X X . . . . . . . . . O . X . . |[/go]
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lovelove
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Re: #187 lovelove vs Marcus

Post by lovelove »

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm61 Prisoners:
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . X . . . . . X X . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . X O O X . . |
$$ | . . . X . . 5 . . . . . . . X X O O . |
$$ | . . . . . . X O . . . . . . X O X X . |
$$ | . . X . . O O X . . . . . . . O O O . |
$$ | . . X O . O X X . X . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . X O O O . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O , . X X X O , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . X . O X O X . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X X O O . . . . O . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . O . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . X X X . . . . . . . . . O . X . . |
$$ | . . . O . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , O . O . . , . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . O X X X . X . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
Amsterdam, soon.
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Marcus
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Re: #187 lovelove vs Marcus

Post by Marcus »

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm61 Prisoners:
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . X . . . . . X X . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . X O O X . . |
$$ | . . . X . . O . . . . . . . X X O O . |
$$ | . . . . . 6 X O . . . . . . X O X X . |
$$ | . . X . . O O X . . . . . . . O O O . |
$$ | . . X O . O X X . X . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . X O O O . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O , . X X X O , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . X . O X O X . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X X O O . . . . O . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . O . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . X X X . . . . . . . . . O . X . . |
$$ | . . . O . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , O . O . . , . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . O X X X . X . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Hmmm ... does this give him the ability to capture my cutting stones? More reading needs to be done, but I should not let this stone simply be captured, so the move is obvious. I'll continue to study the position while I wait for my opponent's next move.
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lovelove
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Re: #187 lovelove vs Marcus

Post by lovelove »

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm67 Prisoners:
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . X . . . . . X X . . |
$$ | . . . , 5 4 . . . , . . . X O O X . . |
$$ | . . . X 3 2 O . . . . . . . X X O O . |
$$ | . . . . 1 X X O . . . . . . X O X X . |
$$ | . . X . . O O X . . . . . . . O O O . |
$$ | . . X O . O X X . X . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . X O O O . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O , . X X X O , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . X . O X O X . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X X O O . . . . O . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . O . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . X X X . . . . . . . . . O . X . . |
$$ | . . . O . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , O . O . . , . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . O X X X . X . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
Amsterdam, soon.
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peppernut
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Re: #187 lovelove vs Marcus

Post by peppernut »

@topazg
FYI: @ K12 is normal shape unless @ K13 kills (which it doesn't, directly at least, here)


Wow, thanks. I feel like I just plugged a glaring hole. In my studies I've seen K13 listed as the critical point in the position after Black plays K12. What I missed then is the fact that if K13 doesn't work, K12 becomes correct. I think I must have been making atari and a tiger's mouth to get out as a default play (which I mentioned does not work here).
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Re: #187 lovelove vs Marcus

Post by Marcus »

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm71 Prisoners:
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . X . . . . . X X . . |
$$ | . . . , O X . . . , . . . X O O X . . |
$$ | . . . X O X O . . . . . . . X X O O . |
$$ | . . . . O X X O . . . . . . X O X X . |
$$ | . . X 4 2 O O X . . . . . . . O O O . |
$$ | . . X O 3 O X X . X . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . X O O O . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O , . X X X O , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . X . O X O X . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X X O O . . . . O . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . O . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . X X X . . . . . . . . . O . X . . |
$$ | . . . O . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , O . O . . , . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . O X X X . X . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


I see, you want to take the corner, lovelove? Let's see what you have in mind ...
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