Starcraft II

[Solomon]

Just found this board through playing a few Starcraft 2 games with Aphelion. I'm pretty bad at the game, never played SC1 online, or WC3 for that matter, so I got pwned pretty hard. It was fun to play with a fellow go player though.

The dedication some of the top StarCraft 2 players display in training, and analyzing their games afterwards reminded me so much of go, I came back to the beautiful game and decided I cannot let another year pass without actively trying to gain a few more stones. So I guess 'Hi!' to the entire L19 board, and looking forward to hang out with you in gold league once StarCraft 2 goes live on july 27th.

oh, and I'd rather have my behind handed to me in a game of go, so should you see me online on KGS, challenge away.

Cheers,
Hushfield

This is awesome, welcome! I should also throw out there that when I went to China in '06 for a Go program, every Go professional we met had some experience with SC and/or WC3. Even the two greatest Go players in the world, Gu Li and Lee Sedol, are SC fans . Coincidence? I think not.

[yoyoma]

There is a teamliquid room on KGS for those interested. Join us!

[Aphelion]

I've also started a thread on TL for Go. I'm hoping it can gather enough activity to really generate some momentum. LiKao, yoyoma, I consider it your duty to post there:

http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmes ... _id=129753

I know that Day9, FrozenArbiter (he's Jinro) have been interested in Go in the past. Jinro started a thread about it a few years ago. I think I can ferret out a lot of Go lovers if this thread grows big.

[ketchup]

Relevant: http://www2.razerzone.com/haxlife/index.php WeMade FOX interview. Pretty interesting stuff.

[yoyoma]

I've also started a thread on TL for Go. I'm hoping it can gather enough activity to really generate some momentum. LiKao, yoyoma, I consider it your duty to post there:

http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmes ... _id=129753

I know that Day9, FrozenArbiter (he's Jinro) have been interested in Go in the past. Jinro started a thread about it a few years ago. I think I can ferret out a lot of Go lovers if this thread grows big.

I didn't notice I'd been called out a month ago! I'm not sure I've ever actually posted on tl before, just lurked a lot.

Also since the rules aren't as strict here as on TL I can say: omgz when does Beta restart???!!!

[Hushfield]

I stumbled across a very interesting guide on teamliquid in which the merits of studying pro games are discussed, and the process of doing so. Things that are discussed include why study pro games and not amateur games, try to predict moves and try to figure out why the pro did something else then you expected,... It seems like something every go player that is into starcraft (and even the ones that aren't) should read. You can find the guide here: Guide on How to Improve by Ver

Also: yoyoma: The beta is back up, yeey! ^^

[Dusk Eagle]

Starcraft II cost $100 million to develop. Insane.

[Toge]

I wonder how interesting the single-player campaign will be, as the multiplayer portion is dull as heck. It made me think of the reasons why I picked up Go. To be a good SC player, you have to be a multitasking beast. Maximize mineral production, maximize tank production, check that attack on side base, drop those marines to enemy base, remember to scout, don't forget to set waypoints, control groups, attack-moves, buildorders, ARGHHHH!!!!!!!!!

You get carpal tunnel syndrome before you get 400APM.

[zinger]

Starcraft II cost $100 million to develop. Insane.

WOW revenue at work

You get carpal tunnel syndrome before you get 400APM.

eh, I have heard claims of hundreds of APM, but I can't imagine how it is possible. 300 APM = 5 actions per second. I would have a hard time just clicking the mouse aimlessly that fast, never mind keeping it up for more than a minute, or clicking intelligently.

[schultz]

You get carpal tunnel syndrome before you get 400APM.

eh, I have heard claims of hundreds of APM, but I can't imagine how it is possible. 300 APM = 5 actions per second. I would have a hard time just clicking the mouse aimlessly that fast, never mind keeping it up for more than a minute, or clicking intelligently.

And yet Starcraft pro players often hit those numbers -- in full length matches (averaging those numbers).

Some thing else to remember, it is not only counting mouse clicks. That also counts all of the shortcut keys used to create units, create action groups, recall action groups, etc.

[Jonas]

There are some videos up on youtube showing the keyboard of madfrog (a former and my favorite wc3-pro) while playing. Although warcraft generally is behind starcraft when it comes to apm, madfrog had around 300-400 apm when in battle. If you watch the video you'll freak out, it looks so insane how awesome fast all the keys are pressed.

[Violence]

RTS's aren't the only games that have over 300 APM.

I'll bet you didn't think players in Super Smash Bros. Melee were capable of 300+ APM, but they are.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=17J6BbaTR18

[Li Kao]

Those 400 APM include hotkey spam. Many players quickly switch through their group hotkeys. I think that's use to check the status of the units and to prevent slowing down so you don't have to suddenly jump up you APM once a fight starts. If you check the APM with a program that filters "useless" actions the APM of most players drops a lot. (See Liquipedia APM).
And the APM demands of SC2 are significantly lower, but of course you still need multitasking.

[Mivo]

I wonder how interesting the single-player campaign will be, as the multiplayer portion is dull as heck.

I played the beta too and my impression was the same. Pretty much the reason why I never really played the original beyond the single-player campaign. I still ordered SC2 (actually just got it in the mail, but can't install it before the 27th), just for the campaign, but doubt that I will play it online.

I also agree with the multitasking. I am tempted to blame it on my "advanced age" (38 now), but in truth I didn't even really enjoy RTS games as much as TBS ones when they were new. There are some exceptions, like Majesty (Majesty 2's pretty nice) and various economy sims (Anno series, Patrician games, etc.) or building sims (Caesar 1-4, SimCity, etc.), but the SC, AoE, Warcraft, etc. titles were always too heavy on the multitasking for me -- at least past the "casual", single-player way of playing. But I get overwhelmed when it gets very competitive and micro-management becomes a key factor. It stops being fun for me then. I like to think rather than react.

[Solomon]

One thing I've been frustrated with regarding SC2 is the rating/league system. Placement matches...iffy, but I can deal with that since in a sense KGS also does that (ideally, I wish they followed the model they used for WC3). Things like bonus pools...eh. But I was mostly frustrated when I got placed into gold league and, despite being 1st in my league 150+ points ahead of 2nd, winning 8/10 games against plats and diamonds, and having ~500 points, BNet still refusing to promote me. A well-known player "qxc" had it even worse, having 900+ points but never bumping beyond platinum league. Hopefully with more users this system gets fixed up, or at least provides some clarification.

Anyways, I can't wait for the big day . If anyone wants to add me on BNet when the game gets released, just PM me for my email or send me yours.