#227 moyoaji vs hailthorn

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hailthorn011
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Re: #227 moyoaji vs hailthorn

Post by hailthorn011 »

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm21 Black: 0 White: 0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O O X . O 2 . . . . . O . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . 1 3 4 O . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . 5 . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . O , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
Slava Ukraini!
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moyoaji
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Re: #227 moyoaji vs hailthorn

Post by moyoaji »

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm21 Black: 0 White: 0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O O X . O O . . . . . O . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . X X O O . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . X . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . O , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . 6 . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


I have been waiting to have sente to play this move. The bottom of the board is my most developable, it is the largest side, and this is the last corner to be approached. I can't think of anything on the board bigger than this.

I expect a pincer. I can't imagine my opponent giving me a pull-back to the star point again when I have so much potential here. If he does I will be thrilled.

I will stand up, then counter pincer to build the bottom. I expect black will then either jump out and I can tenuki to deal with the right or he will tenuki and play on the right himself.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm1 The current plan/assumption
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O O X . O O . . . . . O . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . X X O O . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . X . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . C . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . 4 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . 3 . C . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . O , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . 1 . 2 . 5 . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


If black pincers high, or farther away, then I may consider changing direction to pincer his corner stone or diving into the corner. I am less happy with this, however, because my left side is all low at the moment. However, I can raise the position by attacking black's group which is not yet alive. As they say - 1 eye does not a living group make.

EDIT: Also, hailthorn. I must credit you for a great find on your move. This is a quite active way to defend the cut at F16 and I never would have seen such a move myself. I had read that this seemed to be your strongest reply after I cut and extended, but this sets you a move ahead in that sequence by playing it now so the cut doesn't work directly. It also doesn't seem to leave any extra aji - at least not that I can see for now. Very well seen. I'll need to remember to look for moves like this in the future.
"You have to walk before you can run. Black 1 was a walking move.
I blushed inwardly to recall the ignorant thoughts that had gone through
my mind before, when I had not realized the true worth of Black 1."
-Kageyama Toshiro on proper moves
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Bill Spight
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Re: #227 moyoaji vs hailthorn

Post by Bill Spight »

Edit: Unhidden.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm21 Black: 0 White: 0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O O X . O O . . . . . O . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . X X O O . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . X . . . . . . . . X . b . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . c . 6 . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . B . a . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . O , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


There is certainly a case to be made for a play like :w26: on the right side, whether you call it an approach or a wedge. It is a big point, and previous play has not really lowered the temperature on the right side. White certainly has room to maneuver ("a", "b", "c"). It also makes :bc: look silly. It looks kind of silly, anyway, but if Black builds a big framework on the right side it won't look silly anymore. ;) There is a psychological point, as well. :bc: signals that Black likes to build frameworks. Why not disappoint him? Finally, even with komi White's job in the opening is to keep Black from having an easy time.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm21 Black: 0 White: 0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O O X . O O . . . . . O . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . X X O O . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . X . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 7 . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 6 X . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . O , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . 8 . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


If White is going to play on the bottom side, :w26: is important preparation, as discussed earlier. :)

moyoaji wrote:
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm1 The current plan/assumption
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O O X . O O . . . . . O . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . X X O O . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . X . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . C . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . 4 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . 3 . C . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . O , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . 1 . 2 . 5 . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]



This is an example of hopeful reading. If White can see this now, do you think that Black will not see it one move later? And not play :b2:?

If black pincers high, or farther away, then I may consider changing direction to pincer his corner stone or diving into the corner.


Well done! :) A different pincer is not just a maybe. It should be part of your plan, instead of hoping for the above diagram. The time to consider such possibilities is now.
Last edited by Bill Spight on Wed Dec 04, 2013 1:21 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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hailthorn011
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Re: #227 moyoaji vs hailthorn

Post by hailthorn011 »

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm21 Black: 0 White: 0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O O X . O O . . . . . O . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . X X O O . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . X . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 7 . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . O , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . 6 . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

White gets the bottom. I get the right side. But I also figure I'll be able to diminish the value of the bottom. If not, then that's where the fun begins.
Slava Ukraini!
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Bill Spight
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Re: #227 moyoaji vs hailthorn

Post by Bill Spight »

Edit: Unhidden.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm21 Black: 0 White: 0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O O X . O O . . . . . O . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . X X O O . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . X . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 7 . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . B . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . O , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . 6 . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


:bc: doesn't look so funny anymore, does it? ;)
Last edited by Bill Spight on Wed Dec 04, 2013 1:22 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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moyoaji
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Re: #227 moyoaji vs hailthorn

Post by moyoaji »

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm21 Black: 0 White: 0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O O X . O O . . . . . O . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . X X O O . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . X . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 7 . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . 8 . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . O , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . 6 . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


:shock:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2qHJ-xcMQ7Y

But yeah, I didn't realize that black so highly valued the right as to tenuki an approach. I still have my invasion/reduction point so I will play it now. As they say - invade the moyo one move before it turns into points. This is not points. All the stones are 4th line. Additionally, I have the 3-3 invasion at my disposal. Black is about to earn points. Let's see how many. If black blocks me toward the top, as I would expect, I can link back to my corner. If black tries to block me from connecting to my corner I can either live or cut the lower of the two long-knight moves, creating a fight that seems in my favor.

If I come away with sente, I will play the double approach and that will be a windfall for me, giving me both the left and the bottom of the board. Black can't let me have sente from here - but I will do my best to get it.
"You have to walk before you can run. Black 1 was a walking move.
I blushed inwardly to recall the ignorant thoughts that had gone through
my mind before, when I had not realized the true worth of Black 1."
-Kageyama Toshiro on proper moves
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hailthorn011
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Re: #227 moyoaji vs hailthorn

Post by hailthorn011 »

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm21 Black: 0 White: 0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O O X . O O . . . . . O . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . X X O O . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . X . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 9 . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . O , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


So I'm willing to take a risk here. I've thought this out and played this out many times on a real Go board (Is that legal? I hope so) and so far as I can tell this will work out for me. But I can predict 100 moves but that doesn't mean :white: will play any of them. But screw it. YOLO, right? And that is quite an apt description here. I'm risking serious deduction, death, and even the fate of the world (just kidding) with this move.

I want the right side. My stones aren't optimized for this, but hopefully I can finagle a good result here.
Slava Ukraini!
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Bill Spight
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Re: #227 moyoaji vs hailthorn

Post by Bill Spight »

Edit: Unhidden.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm21 Black: 0 White: 0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O O X . O O . . . . . O . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . X X O O . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . X . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 7 . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . 8 . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . B X . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . W O , . 9 . |
$$ | . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Had Black made the exchange, :bc: - :wc: before :b27:, he could now gladly play the footsweep with :b29:. :)
Last edited by Bill Spight on Wed Dec 04, 2013 1:23 pm, edited 1 time in total.
The Adkins Principle:
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moyoaji
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Re: #227 moyoaji vs hailthorn

Post by moyoaji »

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm21 Black: 0 White: 0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O O X . O O . . . . . O . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . X X O O . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . X . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , 0 . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 9 . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . O , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


I had not anticipated this particular move, but I did consider that he would make an iron pillar by descending and this move is very similar. I am glad that my opponent continues to surprise me. I hope I am also surprising him.

I read out several moves for various replies, but I have decided against trying to connect directly.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm1
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O O X . O O . . . . . O . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . X X O O . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . X . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 3 2 . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . 7 6 4 1 . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . 8 5 X 0 . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . 9 O , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


:w10: connects me back with the atari, but if black tries to fight he can still get something like this.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm1 Black: 0 White: 0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O O X . O O . . . . . O . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . X X O O . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . X . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O O X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . 3 . X X O . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . X O 1 2 . . |
$$ | . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


That ponuki is fantastic. I can't let that be the result.

So I considered this.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm1
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O O X . O O . . . . . O . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . X X O O . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . X . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 1 O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 2 X 8 . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 3 X 4 6 . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . O 9 5 7 . |
$$ | . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . 0 O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Then there is the cut at 'a'...

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm1 Black: 0 White: 0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O O X . O O . . . . . O . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . X X O O . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . X . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O X O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X X O O . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . 8 2 O X X X 5 |
$$ | . . . . . O . . . . . . 7 . 1 O O 4 . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 3 6 . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


And so I decided to play this move.

---

My goal is to live locally or force my way out. I am fine if black gets thick on the outside here. I have plenty of ways and time to reduce a center and black clearly wanted to make points here. Living takes away many of them.

I have two ideal goals:

1. Live in sente to double approach the bottom.
2. Leave the 3-3 a possibility.

If I achieve either of these goals I think I will be in a great spot. If I get both I don't see how I can lose.

Black has many many replies and I have read for a lot of them. I think playing :b27: high was a mistake. Since every stone is high over here living doesn't seem that difficult.

If I can use a ko to get an eye at 'a' and preserve the chance of getting one at 'b' while threatening to make one directly at 'c' by capturing :b5:. If I play this way I doubt black will go for the ko. I have local threats to get out toward the center and make eyes so I don't see how I can lose.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm1
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O O X . O O . . . . . O . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . X X O O . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . X . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 3 . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X 1 2 5 |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , O c 6 |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . b 4 a |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . O . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


If black just goes to seal me he definitely can. But I will live.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm1
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O O X . O O . . . . . O . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . X X O O . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . X . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 4 . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 3 a . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X 2 . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 1 . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . O . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Black cannot hane at 'a' - too many cutting points when I push out.
"You have to walk before you can run. Black 1 was a walking move.
I blushed inwardly to recall the ignorant thoughts that had gone through
my mind before, when I had not realized the true worth of Black 1."
-Kageyama Toshiro on proper moves
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hailthorn011
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Re: #227 moyoaji vs hailthorn

Post by hailthorn011 »

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm31 Black: 0 White: 0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O O X . O O . . . . . O . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . X X O O . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . X . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X 1 . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . O , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Expected.
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moyoaji
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Re: #227 moyoaji vs hailthorn

Post by moyoaji »

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm31 Black: 0 White: 0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O O X . O O . . . . . O . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . X X O O . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . X . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X 1 2 . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . O , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


I read for this. I trust my reading. I can make life here via the ko and, what's more, this is still far enough away that the 3-3 will be open. Black may not make any points here at all.
"You have to walk before you can run. Black 1 was a walking move.
I blushed inwardly to recall the ignorant thoughts that had gone through
my mind before, when I had not realized the true worth of Black 1."
-Kageyama Toshiro on proper moves
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hailthorn011
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Re: #227 moyoaji vs hailthorn

Post by hailthorn011 »

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm31 Black: 0 White: 0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O O X . O O . . . . . O . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . X X O O . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . X . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X X O . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 3 . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . O , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Well, this is getting fun... :study:
Slava Ukraini!
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moyoaji
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Re: #227 moyoaji vs hailthorn

Post by moyoaji »

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm31 Black: 0 White: 0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O O X . O O . . . . . O . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . X X O O . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . X . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X X O . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 4 3 . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . O , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Interesting. I didn't think black would play this way because now I seem to have an easy out. Playing at 'a' just works to get me out to the center now. Otherwise I can still live locally by moving along the side at 'b'. Finally, once I am stronger, I can also consider moving to cut with the sequence at 'c'.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm31 Miai?
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O O X . O O . . . . . O . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . X X O O . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . X . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . b . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X X O . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . a . 4 3 . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . c . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . O , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
"You have to walk before you can run. Black 1 was a walking move.
I blushed inwardly to recall the ignorant thoughts that had gone through
my mind before, when I had not realized the true worth of Black 1."
-Kageyama Toshiro on proper moves
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hailthorn011
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Re: #227 moyoaji vs hailthorn

Post by hailthorn011 »

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm31 Black: 0 White: 0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O O X . O O . . . . . O . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . X X O O . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . X . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X X O . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , O 5 . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . O , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
Slava Ukraini!
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moyoaji
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Re: #227 moyoaji vs hailthorn

Post by moyoaji »

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm31 Black: 0 White: 0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O O X . O O . . . . . O . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . X X O O . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . X . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X X O . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , O 5 . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 6 . O X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . O , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Alright then. I'm out. Some of you may wonder about the black tesuji :b1: here, but it doesn't quite work in this situation.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm1 Forcing my way out
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O O X . O O . . . . . O . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . X X O O . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . X . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X X O . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . 1 , O X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . 3 W 5 O X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X 2 O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . 7 4 6 . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . 0 8 . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 9 X . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . O , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
"You have to walk before you can run. Black 1 was a walking move.
I blushed inwardly to recall the ignorant thoughts that had gone through
my mind before, when I had not realized the true worth of Black 1."
-Kageyama Toshiro on proper moves
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