What is your preference for opening moves?

[daal]

...I would like to experiment with other openings, maybe 5-4 and 3-5 and tengen, but there aren't many good resources for studying these openings except maybe an addendum in a joseki book and a few odd pro games, and generally these openings don't mesh well with the traditional handicap ranking systems used by the AGA, which has officially endorsed the 4-4 as the only sanctioned handicap placement.

Lol! Have you ever looked at a joseki book? Before the addendum they have things called "chapters." And if you are interested in pro games, there are in fact hundreds if not thousands to keep you occupied. As to your last comment about handicap placement stones, it just doesn't make sense - or do you only play handicap games?

[dumbrope]

...I would like to experiment with other openings, maybe 5-4 and 3-5 and tengen, but there aren't many good resources for studying these openings except maybe an addendum in a joseki book and a few odd pro games, and generally these openings don't mesh well with the traditional handicap ranking systems used by the AGA, which has officially endorsed the 4-4 as the only sanctioned handicap placement.

Lol! Have you ever looked at a joseki book? Before the addendum they have things called "chapters." And if you are interested in pro games, there are in fact hundreds if not thousands to keep you occupied. As to your last comment about handicap placement stones, it just doesn't make sense - or do you only play handicap games?

5-3 and 5-4 are my favorite first moves as white in a handicap game so I don't get the handicap game comment. In even games, I like some kind of 3-4 + 4-4 combination either as black or white, but which I choose depends on my opponent's moves. For a while I did like the 3-3 (inspired more by Sakata than Cho Chikun), but my record with it was terrible. I still may use it as white in a diagonal opening if I want a small-scale game.

[SmoothOper]

...I would like to experiment with other openings, maybe 5-4 and 3-5 and tengen, but there aren't many good resources for studying these openings except maybe an addendum in a joseki book and a few odd pro games, and generally these openings don't mesh well with the traditional handicap ranking systems used by the AGA, which has officially endorsed the 4-4 as the only sanctioned handicap placement.

Lol! Have you ever looked at a joseki book? Before the addendum they have things called "chapters." And if you are interested in pro games, there are in fact hundreds if not thousands to keep you occupied. As to your last comment about handicap placement stones, it just doesn't make sense - or do you only play handicap games?

5-3 and 5-4 are my favorite first moves as white in a handicap game so I don't get the handicap game comment. In even games, I like some kind of 3-4 + 4-4 combination either as black or white, but which I choose depends on my opponent's moves. For a while I did like the 3-3 (inspired more by Sakata than Cho Chikun), but my record with it was terrible. I still may use it as white in a diagonal opening if I want a small-scale game.

Who said you deserved white when playing me?

[Boidhre]

I've always liked a pair of 3-4 stones as Black purely from an aesthetic point of view, which I think is perfectly acceptable as a reason to choose them.

I vary quite a bit as white, sometimes feeling like the flexibility that 4-4 brings, sometimes favouring 3-4 stones and occasionally 3-5 stones if I feel like something a bit different.

[oren]

I've always liked a pair of 3-4 stones as Black purely from an aesthetic point of view, which I think is perfectly acceptable as a reason to choose them.

Facing each other, both on the same third line or opposite?

[Boidhre]

I've always liked a pair of 3-4 stones as Black purely from an aesthetic point of view, which I think is perfectly acceptable as a reason to choose them.

Facing each other, both on the same third line or opposite?

Opposing normally. Facing each other or on the same line for White, not Black, though really at my level I don't think this division makes sense (other than with opposing as Black I can normally expect to get a shimari if I want one if my opponent takes both of the other corners).

[hyperpape]

Who said you deserved white when playing me?

No one. You just made that up.

[SmoothOper]

Who said you deserved white when playing me?

No one. You just made that up.

Well, since when do they place white as handicap?

[hyperpape]

I still have no idea what you're trying to say or why you think anyone plays white against you. Seems totally disconnected from everything else.

[lemmata]

I have retroactively hidden my posts in this thread using the spoiler tag. SmoothOper is still continuing to post non-sequiturs and logically invalid statements. However, as a principle, I have never liked the sort of smart-alecky public shaming exercise that I just initiated. Looking back, I have been refusing to engage SmoothOper not long after he first arrived here because I decided then that it would be a waste of time, I should have continued that policy instead of doing what I did. This is how thread derailments happen.

I apologize to SmoothOper for singling him out in this manner. I should have either made a post devoid of the mocking remarks or just refused to engage him as I have done in the past. I got carried away.

Please continue the discussion of your favorite opening moves.

--the end

I still have no idea what you're trying to say or why you think anyone plays white against you. Seems totally disconnected from everything else.

Welcome to SmoothOper Studies 101: Intro to SmoothOper

Posting non-sequiturs is sort of SmoothOper's known smooth modus operandi. You might be happier just talking around him unless you are a mind reader. SmoothOper also has a well-known dislike for the traditional handicap placement system. Many heroes have tried to climb that wall with SmoothOper and failed. If you are the kind of enterprising student who is diligent enough and brilliant enough to handle a challenge like that, then here's...Lesson #1: Mind Reading. For what it's worth, your professor is a complete coward who is neither brave enough nor smart enough to handle that challenge.

I like the 3-3. Initially the smaller number of Joseki appealed to me, and of the alternate openings(3-4,3-5,5-4) it appeared to be the strongest against the 4-4, which is so popular.

3-3 is not any stronger against the 4-4 than those other moves. Perhaps SmoothOper is just talking about his own winning percentages with the 3-3 against the 4-4.

If go weren't so cut throat, I would like to experiment with other openings,

SmoothOper doesn't have to play competitive games all the time, he can experiment in a casual game and (gasp!) lose. We can interpret this statement as follows: He cares a little bit too much about winning and losing. This is no character flaw, but it would be useful for us know this if we have the patience to engage SmoothOper in discussion.

maybe 5-4 and 3-5 and tengen, but there aren't many good resources for studying these openings except maybe an addendum in a joseki book and a few odd pro games,

SmoothOper is factually wrong here. Even an older resource like Rin Kaiho's fuseki dictionary has major parts devoted to 5-4 and 3-5. He means that he personally has never read such books.

and generally these openings don't mesh well with the traditional handicap ranking systems used by the AGA, which has officially endorsed the 4-4 as the only sanctioned handicap placement.

The structure of this phrase strongly suggests that SmoothOper would like to play moves other than 4-4 as his black handicap stones. It makes no sense to talk about the restrictions of handicap placement with regard to scenarios in which he plays white. SmoothOper's mind likes to express his distaste for traditional handicap placement and the 4-4 whenever possible, even if it is irrelevant to the topic at hand. However, an associative connection exists between 4-4 and handicap games so I believe that in the non-deductive system that is computing in SmoothOper's mind, he is making a point.

DISCLAIMER: Mind reading is not a valid science and completely unreliable. Also, this post maybe completely inappropriate because I might be a little drunk.

[DrStraw]

Well, you may be a little drunk, but you certain talked around him a lot. Well, at around a lot of quotes from him.

[SmoothOper]

I still have no idea what you're trying to say or why you think anyone plays white against you. Seems totally disconnected from everything else.

Welcome to SmoothOper Studies 101: Intro to SmoothOper

Posting non-sequiturs is sort of SmoothOper's known smooth modus operandi. You might be happier just talking around him unless you are a mind reader. SmoothOper also has a well-known dislike for the traditional handicap placement system. Many heroes have tried to climb that wall with SmoothOper and failed. If you are the kind of enterprising student who is diligent enough and brilliant enough to handle a challenge like that, then here's...Lesson #1: Mind Reading. For what it's worth, your professor is a complete coward who is neither brave enough nor smart enough to handle that challenge.

I like the 3-3. Initially the smaller number of Joseki appealed to me, and of the alternate openings(3-4,3-5,5-4) it appeared to be the strongest against the 4-4, which is so popular.

3-3 is not any stronger against the 4-4 than those other moves. Perhaps SmoothOper is just talking about his own winning percentages with the 3-3 against the 4-4.

If go weren't so cut throat, I would like to experiment with other openings,

SmoothOper doesn't have to play competitive games all the time, he can experiment in a casual game and (gasp!) lose. We can interpret this statement as follows: He cares a little bit too much about winning and losing. This is no character flaw, but it would be useful for us know this if we have the patience to engage SmoothOper in discussion.

maybe 5-4 and 3-5 and tengen, but there aren't many good resources for studying these openings except maybe an addendum in a joseki book and a few odd pro games,

SmoothOper is factually wrong here. Even an older resource like Rin Kaiho's fuseki dictionary has major parts devoted to 5-4 and 3-5. He means that he personally has never read such books.

and generally these openings don't mesh well with the traditional handicap ranking systems used by the AGA, which has officially endorsed the 4-4 as the only sanctioned handicap placement.

The structure of this phrase strongly suggests that SmoothOper would like to play moves other than 4-4 as his black handicap stones. It makes no sense to talk about the restrictions of handicap placement with regard to scenarios in which he plays white. SmoothOper's mind likes to express his distaste for traditional handicap placement and the 4-4 whenever possible, even if it is irrelevant to the topic at hand. However, an associative connection exists between 4-4 and handicap games so I believe that in the non-deductive system that is computing in SmoothOper's mind, he is making a point.

DISCLAIMER: Mind reading is not a valid science and completely unreliable. Also, this post maybe completely inappropriate because I might be a little drunk.

So what you are saying is that, there are books about 3-5 or 5-4 and chapters in books that I would like to read, but I haven't, because I will be judged by the quality of my hoshi handicap games against supposedly "stronger" players, who just happen to prefer black on 4-4 points, and that if I try alternate opening and lose, I will be compelled to play additional handicap placed stones in subsequent games, so will never have an opportunity to develop alternate openings, unless I play online far away from AGA rules. Aha, you read my mind!

[lemmata]

I have retroactively hidden my posts in this thread using the spoiler tag. SmoothOper is still continuing to post non-sequiturs and logically invalid statements. However, as a principle, I have never liked the sort of smart-alecky public shaming exercise that I just initiated. Looking back, I have been refusing to engage SmoothOper not long after he first arrived here because I decided then that it would be a waste of time, I should have continued that policy instead of doing what I did. This is how thread derailments happen.

I apologize to SmoothOper for singling him out in this manner. I should have either made a post devoid of the mocking remarks or just refused to engage him as I have done in the past. I got carried away.

Please continue the discussion of your favorite opening moves.

--the end

Dear Class,

Your professor has just received a prestigious award from the highest authority in this field. I quote:

Aha, you read my mind!

I will deliver a plenary lecture in commemoration of this momentous occasion.

So what you are saying is that, there are books about 3-5 or 5-4 and chapters in books that I would like to read, but I haven't, because I will be judged by the quality of my hoshi handicap games

The most logical interpretation of this statement is that the Smooth Operator would like to read about 3-5 and 5-4, but has not done so because his time is limited and he is using that time to read about the 4-4 so that he can win games where a lot of 4-4s are placed. Again, we see that the Smooth Operator is a very competitive species, who feels so trapped by the need to win that he would rather read about the stuff that he hates rather than the stuff he that interests him.

against supposedly "stronger" players, who just happen to prefer black on 4-4 points,

Again, we see that the Smooth Operator displays signs of insecurity. He places the word "stronger" in quotation marks to indicate that he is unwilling to accept that strength in go is determined by the ability to win.

Bonus (interdisciplinary studies): We may analyze the sociological phenomena that led to this insecurity. Go players, while generally a cordial group, includes a vocal minority of immature youngsters who are desperate to use the 19x19 grid to figuratively shout "I am a lion! Hear me roar!" From this we may conjecture that the Smooth Operator may be someone who is considered intelligent in his own field of expertise and has had his pride wounded by this pack of wannabe lions. I would recommend that he travel in a properly shielded go safari cart the next time, but the damage may be permanent.

and that if I try alternate opening and lose, I will be compelled to play additional handicap placed stones in subsequent games, so will never have an opportunity to develop alternate openings, unless I play online far away from AGA rules.

Now, I would like the non-scholarly members of the audience to focus their attention on this phrase so that I can introduce them to one of the key methodologies of study in our field. Like a naturalist deducing the wild coyote's diet from its droppings or the ornithologist doing the same for an owl by dissecting its pellet, we can discover more facts about this mysterious species called SmoothOper from this statement. More details about this groundbreaking discovery can be found in my forthcoming paper "The Hidden Logic of Illogical Arguments".

Clue #1: SmoothOper is aware that he can play online to avoid handicap games.

Clue #2: SmoothOper's offline playing options seem to enforce AGA rules and handicaps.

Clue #3: SmoothOper continues to be frustrated by handicap stones despite the availability of online play.

Conclusion: There is something that makes SmoothOper avoid online play. This is where I call upon the brilliant minds sitting in the audience to suggest hypotheses to be tested. It could be that internet access is limited in SmoothOper's neck of the woods. However, we see that he can post on L19, so perhaps his internet connection is not reliable enough for live play. Perhaps he is unaware of sites like OGS-nova, where he can play correspondence games and challenge stronger players on the ladder to EVEN games and the stronger player must accept. Correction: Please put quotation marks around the word "stronger", as is the convention for scholarly works in this field. This seems like a reasonable hypothesis, but this field is one in which "reasonable" is often just red herring.

We must never stop at the reasonable. We must continue to push the envelope of unreasonable hypotheses! For science! Perhaps Smooth Operators will avoid online play even when a reliable Internet connection is available. Perhaps Smooth Operator is Julian Assange, and transmitting WikiLeaks documents using the go board as an encryption device. This results in him playing unconventional openings/moves that lead him to lose. Smooth Operator values the freedom of information and resistance to tyranny more than winning, but he is annoyed that each transmission makes his handicap going up.

Again, this time just for my colleagues in the field of Smooth Operator Studies. I am #1! Neener neener neener.

Aha, you read my mind!

PS: I think I am nearly sobered up now. Oh god, what the heck was I on? I might as well post what I already typed, though. I apologize to anyone offended by my posts.

[vier]

I have trouble thinking of professional games I've seen recently which don't feature at least one 4-4 during the first 4 moves of the game.

Try looking at http://www.go4go.net/go/games/sgfview/33207/6
or http://www.go4go.net/go/games/sgfview/32023/6 .

[Pippen]

This is my thing: http://senseis.xmp.net/?SplitFuseki