Game 4

[logan]

http://www.lifein19x19.com/forum/download/file.php?id=4421

[Uberdude]

This game seems unusually dull for these players with yose starting around move 80. Was black's lower right corner too big and he just made a simple game to keep the advantage? m15 ended up looking silly with n14; seems something went wrong there.

[lichigo]

The move 76 was better in F4 i think.

[Knotwilg]

For me the game is already over by move 27. Black is connected all over, with good territorial prospects and White's thickness is nullified at the bottom. Next, 28 is uninspired and 29 is the most natural move. By 75 the overconcentration of white stones at the bottom right is painful. Who am I to judge, of course, but it looks like Lee was in bad shape.

[Uberdude]

Yeah, the wall being gote giving black the chance to defend at j4 seems sad. I wonder if Lee had seen Gu's previous game just a week ago, which featured the same opening up to the q10 pincer and which Gu lost. I wonder why he didn't choose this variation.

http://www.go4go.net/go/games/sgfview/41636

[Knotwilg]

Well, there you go. I just read the analysis at gogameguru and it seems I haven't understand the game at all.
Apparently the result is even and White even leaps ahead in the early middle game.

http://gogameguru.com/gu-li-vs-lee-sedo ... go-game-4/

[SmoothOper]

This game seems unusually dull for these players with yose starting around move 80. Was black's lower right corner too big and he just made a simple game to keep the advantage? m15 ended up looking silly with n14; seems something went wrong there.

I thought the territory oriented games 3 and 4 were interesting, though neither player is known for this style. It seems to me that Lee Sidol isn't as strong at positional judgement as Gu Li.

[mhlepore]

Just reviewed the sgf of Game 4 - was anyone else surprised by move 82? I know the proverb "urgent before big" but this seemed quite slow. Unless he thought he was winning and just wanted to wrap the game up, but seems too early for that.

[admin]
This post was moved from the Lee Sedol vs Gu Li thread
-JB
[/admin]

[Pippen]

Move 8 was suspect for me. It begged to get under pressure by a pincer and thus to give Black a chance to fight and to build up influence or territory or to abandon later for sente. A split would have kept Black flat overall while making some base and points.

[Pippen]

Just reviewed the sgf of Game 4 - was anyone else surprised by move 82? I know the proverb "urgent before big" but this seemed quite slow. Unless he thought he was winning and just wanted to wrap the game up, but seems too early for that.

Yes, usually a kosumi move like 82 in the middle of the game says: I calculated and affirmed that I lead and now I will make the game safer with this move. And according to commentators White was leading indeed at this point. I think Sedol was calculating too optimistically. It's like if you are a soccer coach and you lead with 1-0 in minute 60 and you choose to substitute for a defender. That's too early and it's questionable it is a good decision at all. Because those moves almost always go along with a more passive/defending attitude and that's poison if your lead is slim and therefore your opponent is even more motivated 'n' aggressive-styled (because he knows he has win in reach).

[admin]
This post was moved from the Lee Sedol vs Gu Li thread
-JB
[/admin]

[oren]

Move 8 was suspect for me. It begged to get under pressure by a pincer and thus to give Black a chance to fight and to build up influence or territory or to abandon later for sente. A split would have kept Black flat overall while making some base and points.

Move 8 isn't uncommon in pro games. Move 10 was a new move though.

The comment from the pros late in middle game to early endgame is that both players were playing as if they had the lead.

[emeraldemon]

Can someone explain to me? What does that move accomplish?

[Joaz Banbeck]

Can someone explain to me? What does that move accomplish?

It is a clever way of capturing P7.

[Bill Spight]

For me the game is already over by move 27. Black is connected all over, with good territorial prospects and White's thickness is nullified at the bottom. Next, 28 is uninspired and 29 is the most natural move. By 75 the overconcentration of white stones at the bottom right is painful. Who am I to judge, of course, but it looks like Lee was in bad shape.

Yeah, as people know, I like thickness, but my impression, too, is that Black came out better in the bottom right.

[uPWarrior]

Knotwilg, Bill, but do you think white is already ahead by move 81? If so, what went wrong? Is it that F14 and F12 are significantly worse than D14 and D12?