It is currently Thu Mar 28, 2024 1:18 am

All times are UTC - 8 hours [ DST ]




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 7 posts ] 
Author Message
Offline
 Post subject: Teaching value of old Chinese games.
Post #1 Posted: Fri Jul 24, 2015 5:22 pm 
Lives in gote

Posts: 546
Liked others: 18
Was liked: 81
KGS: FanXiping
OGS: slashpine
Hello. Today for the first time in months I began replaying the 40 games found in Ruoshi Sun's Games of Wonder, a book containing games by ancient Chinese masters such as Huang Longshi, Fan Xiping, and Cheng Lanru. The fuseki is tasukiboshi in all games and so this may not be of much interest to many of us amateurs, but I was blown away by the tactical brilliance displayed therein. Does anyone here believe that, at least in terms of improving reading ability and tactics, the games of Huang Longshi and other old Chinese masters can prove useful? For your consideration I have included below 3 Huang Longshi games. Much obliged in advance for your kind input.






Top
 Profile  
 
Offline
 Post subject: Re: Teaching value of old Chinese games.
Post #2 Posted: Fri Jul 24, 2015 7:28 pm 
Honinbo

Posts: 9545
Liked others: 1600
Was liked: 1711
KGS: Kirby
Tygem: 커비라고해
Why wouldn't they be useful?

_________________
be immersed

Top
 Profile  
 
Offline
 Post subject: Re: Teaching value of old Chinese games.
Post #3 Posted: Sat Jul 25, 2015 2:43 pm 
Lives in gote

Posts: 546
Liked others: 18
Was liked: 81
KGS: FanXiping
OGS: slashpine
Kirby wrote:
Why wouldn't they be useful?
Perhaps a more accurate question would be, "How many in the Western Go community know about them?" More than a few recent arrivals to the game learned about it from Hikaru no Go, which means that Shusaku may be the only historical player they know.

Top
 Profile  
 
Offline
 Post subject: Re: Teaching value of old Chinese games.
Post #4 Posted: Mon Jul 27, 2015 9:27 am 
Lives in gote

Posts: 546
Liked others: 18
Was liked: 81
KGS: FanXiping
OGS: slashpine
I uploaded these Huang Longshi games to expose the tactical brilliance of the moves therein. Of course these games will not yield much of benefit regarding the application of modern opening theory, but I believe that the amateur player can derive important lessons in tactical exchanges from replaying and studying them. Especially weaker players as their main focus is to improve their tactics. And, TBH, I find the style of play in these games to be exciting and interesting.

Top
 Profile  
 
Offline
 Post subject: Re: Teaching value of old Chinese games.
Post #5 Posted: Mon Jul 27, 2015 10:58 am 
Oza
User avatar

Posts: 2777
Location: Seattle, WA
Liked others: 251
Was liked: 549
KGS: oren
Tygem: oren740, orenl
IGS: oren
Wbaduk: oren
tekesta wrote:
I uploaded these Huang Longshi games to expose the tactical brilliance of the moves therein. Of course these games will not yield much of benefit regarding the application of modern opening theory, but I believe that the amateur player can derive important lessons in tactical exchanges from replaying and studying them. Especially weaker players as their main focus is to improve their tactics. And, TBH, I find the style of play in these games to be exciting and interesting.


They're good games. Modern games are good games too. Watch whatever you like. :)

Top
 Profile  
 
Offline
 Post subject: Re: Teaching value of old Chinese games.
Post #6 Posted: Mon Jul 27, 2015 2:40 pm 
Honinbo

Posts: 9545
Liked others: 1600
Was liked: 1711
KGS: Kirby
Tygem: 커비라고해
oren wrote:
They're good games. Modern games are good games too. Watch whatever you like. :)


Contrast this with the games I watch most often - mid-dan level players blitzing on KGS.

_________________
be immersed

Top
 Profile  
 
Offline
 Post subject: Re: Teaching value of old Chinese games.
Post #7 Posted: Tue Jul 28, 2015 6:22 am 
Lives in gote

Posts: 546
Liked others: 18
Was liked: 81
KGS: FanXiping
OGS: slashpine
Kirby wrote:
Contrast this with the games I watch most often - mid-dan level players blitzing on KGS.
One does get that very impression when replaying through an Old Chinese game, but let's keep in mind that the group tax of 2 points per group applied to additional groups. That is, for every group more than that of the opponent 2 points, or 1 stone, were deducted from the final score. (Also, area scoring was in current use by Huang Longshi's time and even by Guo Bailing's time, in the 1500s.) So if had 185 points divided among 7 groups and you opponent had 176 points divided among 3 groups, as you had 4 groups more, a total of 8 points (4 x 2 = 8) was deducted from your final score. So you end up with 177 points to 176 for your opponent. If the margin is close enough, it is possible to lose a game on just the group tax. Thus players in ancient China would play in order to connect their groups and therefore have fewer groups in total at the end of the game. This explains the chaotic fighting typically seen in the games of the old Chinese masters.

In some ways, komi functions as a kind of scoring tax. Instead of group quantity being taxed, Black is being taxed for the advantage of having the first move.

Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 7 posts ] 

All times are UTC - 8 hours [ DST ]


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
Powered by phpBB © 2000, 2002, 2005, 2007 phpBB Group