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 Post subject: Saint Ravitt vs Darev
Post #1 Posted: Tue Jun 07, 2016 5:16 am 
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OGS: Saint Ravitt
This is a game between Saint Ravitt (joelnelsonb) and Darev (Rev). The game will be played under the Japanese scoring method with a 6.5 point komi awarded to white. Saint Ravitt will move first since he is down in the exchange between the competitors. May the best player win!


Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$c White to play.
$$ ---------------------------------------
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$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]



I begin with the top right star point. The top right is played out of etiquette and the star point for it's balanced position, being neither to high or too low nor is it biased towards a particular direction of the board.

_________________
Thinking like a go player during a game of chess is like bringing a knife to a gun-fight. Thinking like a chess player during a game of go feels like getting knifed while you're holding a gun...


This post by Joelnelsonb was liked by: rev
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 Post subject: Saint Ravitt vs Darev
Post #2 Posted: Tue Jun 07, 2016 6:49 am 
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Rank: OGS 9kyu
OGS: darev
Online playing schedule: Mostly OGS evenings and weekends.
Move 2

Have a good game, MTBPW!

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$c Black to play.
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
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$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]



I respond with the lower left star point. I don't want to play a cross game, and with a symmetric opening move for Black, I don't want to break the symmetry on move 2.

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 Post subject: Re: Saint Ravitt vs Darev
Post #3 Posted: Tue Jun 07, 2016 7:50 am 
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OGS: Saint Ravitt
Black 3:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$c White to move (Use an @ symbol to place a marked white stone.)
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
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$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


White responds in kind so I continue to grab the next empty corner. I choose the 3x4 point in order to promote a balanced game (between strength and efficiency) and I choose the point opposite to the star point stone because I prefer to give myself the option of playing the Chinese rather than the Orthodox. My expectation is for white to respond by taking the bottom right corner though I cannot predict which point exactly. Note that if I'm playing white, I ignore the last empty corner in order to approach the top left directly but that's just my preference (I don't enjoy dealing with enclosures or the Chinese opening).

_________________
Thinking like a go player during a game of chess is like bringing a knife to a gun-fight. Thinking like a chess player during a game of go feels like getting knifed while you're holding a gun...

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 Post subject: Re: Saint Ravitt vs Darev
Post #4 Posted: Tue Jun 07, 2016 6:01 pm 
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Rank: OGS 9kyu
OGS: darev
Online playing schedule: Mostly OGS evenings and weekends.
White 4:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$c Black to move
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
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$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . @ . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


I play near the last empty corner. I have some variations in mind, responding to a potential invasion by Black that will allow me to develop quickly and gain influence. However, it also invites the taisha. So, there is that. Due to the nature of this match, I want to play a unique game.

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 Post subject: Re: Saint Ravitt vs Darev
Post #5 Posted: Tue Jun 07, 2016 6:35 pm 
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OGS: Saint Ravitt
Black 5:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$c White to move.
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X , . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
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$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . , # . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]



I consider preventing the bottom right enclosure to be priority. I expect white to respond at Q5 if he even does. I would not.

_________________
Thinking like a go player during a game of chess is like bringing a knife to a gun-fight. Thinking like a chess player during a game of go feels like getting knifed while you're holding a gun...

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 Post subject: Re: Saint Ravitt vs Darev
Post #6 Posted: Tue Jun 07, 2016 9:32 pm 
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OGS: darev
Online playing schedule: Mostly OGS evenings and weekends.
White 6:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$c Black to move.
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X , . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
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$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . @ . . . |
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$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]



Considering the simple variations of the response at Q6, the opportunity to build a wall with an extension on the lower side would be welcome. On the other hand, there are the not so simple variations.

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 Post subject: Re: Saint Ravitt vs Darev
Post #7 Posted: Wed Jun 08, 2016 8:02 am 
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OGS: Saint Ravitt
Black 7:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$c White to move.
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X , . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
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$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . |
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$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O # . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


I'm not in love with this kick, however, I don't wanna let my corner become too weak in order to preserve the strength of the upper left stone. If I'm white, I just extend down.

_________________
Thinking like a go player during a game of chess is like bringing a knife to a gun-fight. Thinking like a chess player during a game of go feels like getting knifed while you're holding a gun...


Last edited by Joelnelsonb on Wed Jun 08, 2016 3:53 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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 Post subject: Re: Saint Ravitt vs Darev
Post #8 Posted: Wed Jun 08, 2016 8:35 am 
Gosei
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KGS: greendemon
Tygem: greendemon
DGS: smaragdaemon
OGS: emeraldemon
That kick is new to me...

Surely white will extend up, not down?
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm1 Something like this?
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X , . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
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$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . 3 . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . 2 , X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . 4 . . . . O 1 . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

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 Post subject: Re: Saint Ravitt vs Darev
Post #9 Posted: Wed Jun 08, 2016 2:30 pm 
Oza

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Online playing schedule: When my wife is out.
emeraldemon wrote:
That kick is new to me...

Surely white will extend up, not down?
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm1 Something like this?
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X , . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
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$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . 3 . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . 2 , X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . 4 . . . . O 1 . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Yeah, this seems a bit painful for black so early on. Black could hane underneath, but it doesn't change the result much.

OTOH, if black ends with sente, approaching the bottom left becomes quite big. I'd be more comfortable with that if the upper left were a 4-4 stone, though, or facing the other way.

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 Post subject: Re: Saint Ravitt vs Darev
Post #10 Posted: Wed Jun 08, 2016 7:21 pm 
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Rank: OGS 9kyu
OGS: darev
Online playing schedule: Mostly OGS evenings and weekends.
White 8:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$c Black to move.
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X , . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
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$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . @ , X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


The kick does seem a bit odd. It was a bit of a headscratcher, but in line with my original stated goal, I want to extend up, creating a wall facing the start point, with hopes of an eventual extension to take the lower side. It appears that we're going to avoid most of the taisha nastiness. Good, I like the way this is developing.

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 Post subject: Re: Saint Ravitt vs Darev
Post #11 Posted: Wed Jun 08, 2016 8:06 pm 
Lives in gote
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OGS: Saint Ravitt
Black 9:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$c White to move.
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X , . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
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$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . # . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . O , X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]



The bottom right is now full potential to begin a real fight. Therefore, my theory tells me to proceed with development and approach the bottom left. I approach on the side of my 3x4 stone.

_________________
Thinking like a go player during a game of chess is like bringing a knife to a gun-fight. Thinking like a chess player during a game of go feels like getting knifed while you're holding a gun...

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 Post subject: Re: Saint Ravitt vs Darev
Post #12 Posted: Wed Jun 08, 2016 10:26 pm 
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Rank: OGS 9kyu
OGS: darev
Online playing schedule: Mostly OGS evenings and weekends.
White 10:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$c Black to move.
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X , . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . .@. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . O , X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]



This is closer than I normally approach a 3-4 stone on this side. The two space approach is more normal for me, but I want to put a lot of pressure on Black's corner. Also, I don't want Black to take the left side. If Black approaches the lower left from the other side, White can play the 3-5 on the top left after jumping out and there is always the extension on either the top or the left side. Even if Black tries to take the left side, I get to play another move on the top, and develop a presence deep in Black's claim, which I consider a fair exchange. This should develop into something interesting. I must stay willing to give up a little bit on the top left in order to help the lower left 4-4

Other options:
White could back off to F3, but black would most likely play D10, which is exactly what I'm trying to prevent, or at least make it not as valuable.

Pincering the attacking stone would either result in a counter pincer or an attack from the other side of the stone, neither of which I want to deal with without a stone putting pressure on one of my opponent's corners.

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 Post subject: Re: Saint Ravitt vs Darev
Post #13 Posted: Thu Jun 09, 2016 8:20 am 
Gosei
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I don't like the approach in the upper left, but more importantly what about the lower right? Seems like white can seal black in in sente, at the very least. I think both players messed up by ignoring that corner.

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Post #14 Posted: Thu Jun 09, 2016 9:25 am 
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Black 11:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$c White to move.
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X , . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . # . . . , . . . . O , X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


White's approach in the upper left seems oddly timed. However, white has enough pressure on the bottom right corner to easily seal me in therefore white's approach in the top left is a bit more threatening than it otherwise would be (because I don't want white taking the outside in two corners so early in the game). That being what it is, I believe that with an extra move in the bottom left, I can interfere with white's development along the bottom while also getting the inside track on the development down the left side and given that the top left isn't urgent, I chose the double-purpose move.

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 Post subject: Re: Saint Ravitt vs Darev
Post #15 Posted: Thu Jun 09, 2016 8:18 pm 
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OGS: darev
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White 12:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$c Black to move.
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X , . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X @ . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . X . . . , . . . . O , X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


My goal here is to get out from the corner. Hopefully, I can play away first and play a second move in the top left.

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Post #16 Posted: Thu Jun 09, 2016 11:27 pm 
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OGS: Saint Ravitt
Black 13:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$c White to move.
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X , . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . # . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X O . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . X . . . , . . . . O , X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


This attachment seems a little desperate of white given that it will weaken the D14 stone and give me strength for a great counter-attack. I would've probably played E5 or a pincer. I expect white to extend in response to my hane.

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 Post subject: Re: Saint Ravitt vs Darev
Post #17 Posted: Fri Jun 10, 2016 3:12 pm 
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OGS: darev
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White 14:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$c Black to move.
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . @ . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X , . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X O . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . X . . . , . . . . O , X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Having my two weak stones in the lower left would be bad, but having my lone stone in the top left attacked would be even worse. A second move here seems more critical as I can fight in the lower left.

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Post #18 Posted: Fri Jun 10, 2016 6:36 pm 
Lives in gote
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OGS: Saint Ravitt
Black 15:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$c White to move.
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X , . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . # . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X O . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . X . . . , . . . . O , X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


White just abandoned a joseki part way through to play a second approach move. I take this as white saying "screw this civilized stuff! I wanna fight! Therefore I oblige.

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Thinking like a go player during a game of chess is like bringing a knife to a gun-fight. Thinking like a chess player during a game of go feels like getting knifed while you're holding a gun...

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 Post subject: Re: Saint Ravitt vs Darev
Post #19 Posted: Fri Jun 10, 2016 7:50 pm 
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OGS: darev
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White 16:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$c Black to move.
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X , . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . X @ . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X O . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . X . . . , . . . . O , X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


I want the ouside, so I hane.

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 Post subject: Re: Saint Ravitt vs Darev
Post #20 Posted: Sat Jun 11, 2016 2:40 am 
Dies with sente
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rev wrote:
Having my two weak stones in the lower left would be bad, but having my lone stone in the top left attacked would be even worse. A second move here seems more critical as I can fight in the lower left.


The lone stone in the upper corner is in no trouble. It has room for extension and it is on the fourth row. So there is no hurry back there. But the lower left corner is in a middle of a fight, and I think you should play there first. Otherwise the D6 stone seems pointless.

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